NZChris wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:48 pm
The answer is hinted at in the opening post.
"The first involves a traditional pot still, which has no cooling in the neck or column. The distillate produced is lower in proof than that produced by a reflux still with a fractionating or splitting column. This is the traditional method of distillation and requires multiple runs. The distiller will save up enough low wines from the first runs or stripping runs to fill the still for a second run."
If you are doing one ferment at a time and saving up enough low wines for a spirit run, it's going to take a long enough time already without dragging it out into weeks or months between stripping runs.
I believe he does this because of the Maillard reaction.
Maillard browning reactions also take place in the kettle during wort boiling and can develop deeper colors in worts. They also occur during mash boiling phases of decoction mashes, and proponents of decoction mashing often claim that superior depth of malt flavor can result. Copied from a brewers forum.
My question is in regards to "over oaking". After spending a few hours researching this forum and other sources for insight, I am ready to ask for opinions.
I have been making UJ for about 15 months now. I distill monthly, and put away a 2qt mason jar at 55%ABV each month. I add one nicely charred 8 x 3/4 x 3/4 stick of white oak to each jar. The wife and I did some sampling and found that the 1 and 2 month old jars were pretty rough yet. The 3 through 8 month old jars were good, but pretty '"oak-ie". The older jars seem to be mellowing out and were judged the best of the lot.
Now I read that with this oaking method, maybe 8 to 12 weeks on oak is the optimum. More than that results in "too much oak".
But many on this forum and other sources say that time is your friend. Basically older = better.
Commercially, older bourbons and whiskies are prized and command top dollar. Granted 53 gal barrels is not the same as 2qt sealed jars. But they are "on wood" for... many years!
I know that the correct answer is "do what is right for you". But looking for opinions. Is it OK to leave my oaked 2qt jars out in the shed for a year or ten? Should I be removing the oak, course filter and bottle? Will they continue to improve bottled (off oak)? Or have I already "over oaked" much of this yummy UJSSM as some might suggest?
That question has come up in many threads on aging. The opinions vary because some come from newbies in a hurry to get something into their drinks cabinet, and some come from old hands with plenty of stock. If I want my UJSSM to get well aged, I leave plenty of it white and drink that. Leave some headroom in the jars for some O2. I don't tightly seal mine and only use natural cork bungs. I only draw off enough for my current needs, leaving the rest on the wood for years.
I don't think you can have too much oak. Its usually more a case of not enough time. I use roughly the same amount of oak as you and noticed the same things early on. I also do as NZChris says, if its destined to be consumed soon after distilling i leave some white and oak the rest for at least a year before checking it. This is much easier to do once a nice back stock has been saved up. I've had jars that were 4-5 years old and haven't yet found one "over oaked".
I use just two 4 inch sticks in a half gallon jar. Perhaps try a 4 inch rather than 8 inch stick in one of your jars on the next batch and see if that is more to your liking. Over oaking is definitely a personal preference thing. I think some people here could drink from a jar that was filled with wood and just a bit of whiskey, while others like a lighter wood finish. Experiment to find your sweet spot. If you have 24 jars a year to play with you should be able to find it quickly.
I think amount of oak is not the same thing as amount of age. Aging includes both extraction and esterification. Extraction is pretty fast and you can get more oak into bourbon for example by aging for a year in one new oak barrel and then transfering the bourbon to a fresh new oak barrel. The number of sticks we use can be akin to the double oaking process...more sticks/spirals/chips, more oak. However the chemical reaction processes of aging proceed at a different pace. That is why 18 year old scotch may be well aged but is not going to be over-oaked.
Drinking a 20 month old UJSSM aged on new, charred, French oak in jars right now and it’s sensational, but it took that extra 8 months to get all complex and delicious. I mean, it’s a sugar-head and it’s amazing.
The oaking rate is such an interesting thing to me because now I worry more about under-oaking than over-oaking. For a ‘bourbon’ to mix, I believe you want lots of flavour, right? But for a sipper I want wood sugar sweetness, a big interesting nose like candy floss, corn and and oak, and a little burn at 50%. That’s fine.
I make more rum, and I have older jars that are fading a bit (the angels don’t help) and other ones that are shining that I got a bit more aggressive oaking-wise. This is for 3-year-old +. The thing is you have the option of blending, so experimenting with oak is less risky than it might appear.
I also quite like the three-month old sweet-spot with that butterscotch thing before the oak can briefly dominate till a year or so. This is with UJSSM. I’m ranting. Just love this recipe.
