Shady's Sugar Shine

[BrewinBrian44]

Just had mine stall. First time in a long time to have sugar wash do this . I normally used powdered CC to buffer the ph drop, but think I accidentally didn’t add enough this time around. Other possibility is the bakers yeast getting a bit old in the fridge.

Stopped at 1.020 after 7 days. Chucked in some more powdered CC and a little fresh yeast. Fingers crossed

OH Man!! Sorry to hear this. Hope it takes back off again. I have been hooked on this recipe. Really been my go too for several months straight now.
Good luck with your SSS. Cheer's

Yeah I’ve had tons of success using the recipe exactly as written, which is why I was surprised it wasn’t sitting dry after 7 days. Goes to show, doesn’t matter how much experience we have, mishaps still happen. Wouldn’t be surprised if some human error was involved.

It’s hard to stay focused with a 9 month old and other dad obligations. It’s been hard to carve out much time for this hobby after my Son was born. I’m sure some can relate.

[BrewinBrian44]

Well it went down to 1.015 in a few more days. Not gettin there.

I’m gonna make another boiled yeast slurry, toss in some DAP and even more yeast. Crossing my fingers yet again.

[Wildcats]

Well it went down to 1.015 in a few more days. Not gettin there.

I’m gonna make another boiled yeast slurry, toss in some DAP and even more yeast. Crossing my fingers yet again.

I was wondering about how it's went. Thanks for sharing.Hopefully it'll take back off again man. Cheer's

[BrewinBrian44]

Just checked ph on a whim, wow. low 3's. At this point, there's a lot of powdered CC in there. I don't have any pickling lime on hand, so I just dumped in a few more tsp of powdered CC and gave it a good mix. "20gal batch." There's no signs of infection.

This is crazy for me. I've made this recipe many times, exactly as written and had absolutely no issues. I'll see what it gets down to after this last round of doctoring. If it stops short again, I might just cut my losses, strip it and run it through the SPP column. Lower than ideal yield, but hopefully next time everything goes as normal.

[Saltbush Bill]

This is crazy for me. I've made this recipe many times, exactly as written and had absolutely no issues.

You and ,me both Brian.
Ive just finished stripping one that never finished completely dry.
The first fail in a long long time, but my own fault completely.
I think I got a little slap happy with the recipe and its winter here.
Normally I add hot water when making up the wash, to get it above 30+c , just to make it easy for the yeast to kick off in a happy way. Once underway a big wash will maintain its own temp.
This time I didn't do that , just cold water straight from the tap, the tap connects to an underground pipe and the ground is also cold at this time of years.
Crux is the wash struggled from start to finish, tried a number of tricks to get it going properly, it never really did get going properly.
The one thing that might have helped early on would have been warmth, but its pretty hard to warm 180L of wash once you have it all in a plastic barrel.
Lesson learned .......dont be lazy an try to take short cuts.

[shadylane]

Well it went down to 1.015 in a few more days. Not gettin there.

I’m gonna make another boiled yeast slurry, toss in some DAP and even more yeast. Crossing my fingers yet again.

I'd let it settle or run it as is.
I wouldn't add anymore DAP.

[Yummyrum]

Maybe its just me , but I’ve never had any sugar wash other than a turbo that finished under a week .
When I put down a Shadys or even when I did Teds Fast fermenting Vodka , I would expect it to have dropped to about 1.020ish after a week . I just let them do their thing . Sometime it takes a few more weeks or a month or so .

But I fully agree that temp makes a big difference.

I am always surprised when I hear of a sugar wash done in a week . It never happens to me

[NZChris]

Just checked ph on a whim, wow. low 3's. At this point, there's a lot of powdered CC in there. I don't have any pickling lime on hand, so I just dumped in a few more tsp of powdered CC and gave it a good mix. "20gal batch." There's no signs of infection.

This is crazy for me. I've made this recipe many times, exactly as written and had absolutely no issues. I'll see what it gets down to after this last round of doctoring. If it stops short again, I might just cut my losses, strip it and run it through the SPP column. Lower than ideal yield, but hopefully next time everything goes as normal.

The amount of powdered CC to use is a lot more trouble to get right than is crushed shell, whole shell, or slabs of marble, as it behaves the least like a buffer because of it's higher surface area to volume ratio. I use whole shells for SSS and have never had a stall or a pH issue.

[Saltbush Bill]

But I fully agree that temp makes a big difference.

I am always surprised when I hear of a sugar wash done in a week . It never happens to me

Ive had them done in a week , but usually let them settle for another few days or so.
I rushed into distilling this one cause it was starting to develop a fairly nasty looking infection ......not like I'm used to.
As before , comes from being to cocky and thinking I knew how far I could push the limits, learned from it how much I don't know yet.

[Wildcats]

Maybe its just me , but I’ve never had any sugar wash other than a turbo that finished under a week .
When I put down a Shadys or even when I did Teds Fast fermenting Vodka , I would expect it to have dropped to about 1.020ish after a week . I just let them do their thing . Sometime it takes a few more weeks or a month or so .

But I fully agree that temp makes a big difference.

I am always surprised when I hear of a sugar wash done in a week . It never happens to me

I've never had SSS finish in a week either. Usually it two weeks before I run it sometime longer, depending on when I have time to run it. I have 10 gal that has been sitting for about a month that I haven't had time to run lately. I do love this recipe.

[BrewinBrian44]

Yeah I think I’m gonna ditch the powdered CC and switch to crush oyster shell from here on. I have a bag of it laying around.

This recipe usually finishes in a week for me. I already added the stuff I described before some of the later comments.

When you guys get a crash like this, is it usually un-recoverable? If so I’ll just run it soon.

[Salt Must Flow]

Apparently your ph is in the low 3s as you stated. Sounds just like a ph crash.

PH UP: If you want to raise your ph right now, add Calcium Hydroxide/Hydrated Lime/Pickling Lime. This will raise your ph immediately. I don't see the point in doing this unless you are able to test the ph. Test to confirm the ph and add more if necessary.

PH DOWN: To lower the ph right now you can add Citric Acid. This will lower the ph immediately. Test to confirm the ph. Add more if necessary. If you accidentally add too much, you can always add some PH UP.

Powder Calcium Carbonate and Marble Rock/Oyster shell doesn't work like Calcium Hydroxide/Hydrated Lime/Pickling Lime. Calcium Carbonate will slowly dissolve as the wash becomes more acidic which helps stabilize/buffer the ph.

If I ever screw something up and get a ph crash, I just add Calcium Hydroxide/Hydrated Lime/Pickling Lime to raise the ph. Be sure to have a fat sack of Calcium Carbonate/Marble Rock/Oyster Shell suspended in the wash and it will buffer the ph to combat a crash. If it doesn't start bubbling away soon, you can add some yeast, but you shouldn't have to.

As long as you follow a proven recipe, adjust the starting ph to 5.2 - 5.6 using Citric Acid, have an adequate amount of Calcium Carbonate and maintain proper temp, it should ferment without any issues.

[shadylane]

Yeah I think I’m gonna ditch the powdered CC and switch to crush oyster shell from here on. I have a bag of it laying around.

This recipe usually finishes in a week for me. I already added the stuff I described before some of the later comments.

When you guys get a crash like this, is it usually un-recoverable? If so I’ll just run it soon.

Restarting a stuck sugar wash can be difficult.
The closer it is to being dry the more difficult it becomes.

Too much Pickling Lime often leads to blue distillate.

Put a double handful of crush oyster shell in a cotton sock or mesh bag and suspend it in the fermenter.
If you're going to let the wash sit and clear after it finishes, remove the shell to keep the pH from rising high enough that bacteria can get started.

[BrewinBrian44]

Thank you for the advice. I think I might cut my losses and just run it. Next time I won’t let it crash.

Hey Shady, do you usually let your wash fully clear before running it? I’ve never let it totally drop bright. The product has always been very clean after running through the column. Maybe I’m missing out on a little better yield?

[shadylane]

How clear you let a sugar wash settle to depends on the still.
If you're trying for neutral with a pot still or a short column, clearing really helps.

[BrewinBrian44]

I’m running a 3” SPP packed column. I don’t have a lot of height and my SPP isn’t sized perfectly for my column, but I can consistently achieve a little north of 95% ABV running once distilled low wines.

[NZChris]

I've had very little success restarting stuck washes of any kind.

The one success I can think of was a stubborn rum wash that would not start regardless of what tricks I tried until I chucked half a bag of Turbo into it.

[shadylane]

I’m running a 3” SPP packed column. I don’t have a lot of height and my SPP isn’t sized perfectly for my column, but I can consistently achieve a little north of 95% ABV running once distilled low wines.

Here's my advice.
1st don't run your wash yet. It's been less than 2 weeks since it started.
Warm the fermenter up and wait to see if it's truly finished.
You will know when it's done, fermentation stops and the surface starts getting clearer.
Drop the temp as low as possible at this point. Plastic jugs with frozen water works.
Wait a day or three, before draining the fermenter without disturbing the trub.

2nd
Next time follow the recipe.
Crushed oyster shell is used because it works no matter the local water.
Or the experience of the Moonshiner.

[NZChris]

When you guys get a crash like this, is it usually un-recoverable? If so I’ll just run it soon.

Were you controlling the temperature?

[shadylane]

Were you controlling the temperature?

Plus-one on keeping the temp constant.
Once I got a temp controlled fermenter, there hasn't been a problem.
That's been the biggest reason for success.

The temp sweet spot for bakers yeast is around 86'f
Try to avoid higher than that because of stress.
But don't go lower than 70ish aka room temp.
If you do bakers will slow down and start looking for an excuse to stall.

[BrewinBrian44]

Were you controlling the temperature?

Plus-one on keeping the temp constant.
Once I got a temp controlled fermenter, there hasn't been a problem.
That's been the biggest reason for success.

The temp sweet spot for bakers yeast is around 86'f
Try to avoid higher than that because of stress.
But don't go lower than 70ish aka room temp.
If you do bakers will slow down and start looking for an excuse to stall.

I keep the fermenter at a constant temp of 85 degrees with heating pads on a temp controller and a blanket around it. I do this with most ferments. It’s stayed consistent the whole time. I checked it every day.

I’ve never cold crashed with the method you described. Sounds interesting. If I’m going to cold crash, I usually draw off a couple buckets and drop them in a chest freezer, run it, then draw off the rest and repeat the procedure. I’ve never done it for this recipe and usually only do it when I’m squeezing bourbon grains and I’m trying to get the custard to settle. If you think the juice is worth the squeeze, I’ll try it this time.

I’ll take your advice and let it ride a bit. I’m not in a rush.

You got me on not following the recipe exactly with the powdered CC. It’s worked every time in the past, but sounds like the oyster shells are the better choice. Thank you to everyone on explaining the logic regarding this. Super helpful!

Cheers!

[BrewinBrian44]

Well, at 2 weeks in it got down to 1.012, so it was able to squeeze out a bit more alcohol. The ferment looks pretty dead at this point. If it’s reading the same FG tomorrow, I’ll pull a couple buckets of wash to cold crash in the chest freezer. I installed a rotating racking arm to the 50gal kettle it’s fermenting in, so racking should be simple without disturbing the trub.

Many lessons learned here. Thanks for all the feedback!

[shadylane]

Well, at 2 weeks in it got down to 1.012, so it was able to squeeze out a bit more alcohol.

What are you using to measure the gravity?

[BrewinBrian44]

Well, at 2 weeks in it got down to 1.012, so it was able to squeeze out a bit more alcohol.

What are you using to measure the gravity?

I’m using my hydrometer. I’m also correcting for temperature.

[shadylane]

Just asking.
Sometimes folks use a reflectometer, and the FG measurements lead them astray.

[shadylane]

Yeah I think I’m gonna ditch the powdered CC and switch to crush oyster shell from here on. I have a bag of it laying around.

Sounds like the powdered CC was pitched early before fermentation had started and there wasn't enough acid to react with. Then the CC fell to the bottom of the fermenter, got covered up and wasn't available to correct the pH.

[BrewinBrian44]

Yeah I think I’m gonna ditch the powdered CC and switch to crush oyster shell from here on. I have a bag of it laying around.

Sounds like the powdered CC was pitched early before fermentation had started and there wasn't enough acid to react with. Then the CC fell to the bottom of the fermenter, got covered up and wasn't available to correct the pH.

You could be right.

To be honest, I’ve done it the way I described many times before with your recipe and everything went like clockwork, minus this time. For simplicity, I’d chuck the powdered CC right when I pitched and no issues, until now haha.

Clearly I must have been lucky. After doing more reading, oyster shells are the way to go. I’ll correct this method moving forward.

[shadylane]

Look in your clothes drawer for the sock that doesn't have a mate.
Or go to amazon and buy some mesh bags.

Don't clean or rinse the dust off the crushed shell.
The balance between fine and coarse will dissolve at different rates and keep the pH more stable.

[BrewinBrian44]

Look in your clothes drawer for the sock that doesn't have a mate.
Or go to amazon and buy some mesh bags.

Don't clean or rinse the dust off the crushed shell.
The balance between fine and coarse will dissolve at different rates and keep the pH more stable.

Good advice! I think I have some extra hop bags laying around that would work perfect.

[shadylane]

That will work.
Tie some string to the bag of grit and hang it just off the bottom of the fermenter.
Convection currents cause by rising C02 will help suck wash upwards and into contact with the bag.