stillby wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:54 pm
Thanks SBB - LWTCS: "As a rum snob, I was unimpressed." that actually gives me hope. So maybe I will be able to produce something that will not impress a rum fiend but will still cooperate with some coke and lime juice... I will try
I have since found a local source for blackstrap molasses, so there's my plan B: use the beet rum for neutral and try some proper rum.
Plan A is still to produce a local, european, rum that tastes all right, so lets see.
See if you can get hold of some dark muscovado sugar. It should in practice be dried sugar cane molasses. The can go for between 2.5 -3 EUR per 400grams.. so, not cheap, but I'm going to give this a try, making small batches and add Dunder to every new batch. After the first spirit run, I should have some tails to throw into the next as well!
The good stuff in Rum is in the heads . Don’t be afraid to recycle heads . IMO , it will help your Rum much more than recycling tails .
When it comes to Nuetrals , we tend to think of Heads as nasty headache inducing stuff that must be purged at all cost , but for Rum , the desirable Esters are in the heads , not the tails ….. be careful what you discard
Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 3:09 am
Have you found that it still seems to be getting better, or has it pretty much "stabilized "
Are you letting it breath a bit from time to time?
Just interested to know as I've little experience of aging long term in staino, mines all in oak barrels.....hence the interrogation ?
I know that by three years mines getting quite smooth and doesn't really resemble what was in the barrel at 18 months - two years.
It has never been "over-oaked" but the oak was quite pronounced earlier on, i find the oakiness has subdued and become more rounded and the vanilla, caramel flavours have come on. Definitely got better with time, Almost perfect now.
I use corny kegs with the rubber o'ring removed so the lid is closed but its always breathing.
stillby wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:54 pm
Thanks SBB - LWTCS: "As a rum snob, I was unimpressed." that actually gives me hope. So maybe I will be able to produce something that will not impress a rum fiend but will still cooperate with some coke and lime juice... I will try
I have since found a local source for blackstrap molasses, so there's my plan B: use the beet rum for neutral and try some proper rum.
Plan A is still to produce a local, european, rum that tastes all right, so lets see.
See if you can get hold of some dark muscovado sugar. It should in practice be dried sugar cane molasses. The can go for between 2.5 -3 EUR per 400grams.. so, not cheap, but I'm going to give this a try, making small batches and add Dunder to every new batch. After the first spirit run, I should have some tails to throw into the next as well!
The good stuff in Rum is in the heads . Don’t be afraid to recycle heads . IMO , it will help your Rum much more than recycling tails .
When it comes to Nuetrals , we tend to think of Heads as nasty headache inducing stuff that must be purged at all cost , but for Rum , the desirable Esters are in the heads , not the tails ….. be careful what you discard
Enjoying a bit of product tonight, 2-3 years now on oak. I think i'm going to do a run to make up for angel's share and to top up the barrels in my Solera system. I've got 4, 5 gl. barrels. I've been really good about leaving it alone, the oldest dates to 2019. going and let it go as long as I can stand, I took a bottle out about 6 months ago and have tasted it occasionally. I'm very pleased and would encourage anyone to go this route. the store bought stuff has so many additives, this is the real thing.
Re: the chalk . …. If it makes you feel better ,knock yourself out . But seriously , it won’t do a thing .
You might have noticed its not in Salty’s recipe .
Reason is that all Molasses washes don’t need anything to buffer them unlike sugar washes .
Mollases leaves the refineries pH adjusted to around 5-5.5 so it won’t start spontaneously fementing during storage .
It had so much Calcium Hydroxide ( added during clarifying process) and phosphoric acid added to it ( to neutralise CaOH during clarifying) during the refining process that any feeble attempt to correct it will have about zero effect on it .
Yummyrum wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 12:28 am
Happy days there Prince
Best way I know to stink up a house
Re: the chalk . …. If it makes you feel better ,knock yourself out . But seriously , it won’t do a thing .
You might have noticed its not in Salty’s recipe .
Reason is that all Molasses washes don’t need anything to buffer them unlike sugar washes .
Mollases leaves the refineries pH adjusted to around 5-5.5 so it won’t start spontaneously fementing during storage .
It had so much Calcium Hydroxide ( added during clarifying process) and phosphoric acid added to it ( to neutralise CaOH during clarifying) during the refining process that any feeble attempt to correct it will have about zero effect on it .
*PSA*
This "stinking up the house" thing. I wish someone told me this sooner!
I have brewn lots of different AG's, and now a couple of muscovado strips. All quite pleasant all the way through.
I thought I should up my game and got hold of some good molasses which isn't that easy where I live so...
Worst smell I have ever had from any fermenting wash/mash.
The kids almost puked from it, they never say anything usually. I'm on the border of skipping molasses just because of the 7 day stench that follows..
You guys are kidding ?.....If you think a Molasses wash smells bad you have obviously lead very sheltered lives, or have overly sensitive senses of smell.
That or you need to find another source of Molasses.
Dude the best smelling wash I've ever done was a feed grade molasses, my whole hose smelled like plum and stone fruit, it was amazing! if I could bottle that smell and sell it I'd be a rich man.
There are two types of people in this world.
1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
rolling wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2023 5:17 pm
Enjoying a bit of product tonight, 2-3 years now on oak. I think i'm going to do a run to make up for angel's share and to top up the barrels in my Solera system. I've got 4, 5 gl. barrels. I've been really good about leaving it alone, the oldest dates to 2019. going and let it go as long as I can stand, I took a bottle out about 6 months ago and have tasted it occasionally. I'm very pleased and would encourage anyone to go this route. the store bought stuff has so many additives, this is the real thing.
Hey man, could you share a few details about how it tasted after 6 months, one year, 18 months etc. just for interests sake. My one year old is so mellow compared to my 6 month old that I still worry about over-oaking despite the evidence…
Have you experienced consistent/dramatic changes over time? I only make SBB and I’m fascinated by aging. I get my first 2 year old in March next year. Can’t wait.
My barrels are used bourbon barrels I bought. For the first year most of my product was in glass jars with toasted or toasted and charred oak. I wish I knew the answers, but I honestly don't know at what point you have to worry about over oaking with this recipe. The smaller barrel size could have a bad effect, but I haven't seen it. Maybe because the barrels are used? All I know is what I have is pretty good and I want to make more if I can find the time. It's easy to let it sit, really, just drink store bought and forget about it. I'd like to get a couple more years on it and transfer forward in the Solera to keep each barrel full. I don't like the idea of partially full barrels. I will say this, the first months this stuff is pretty hot. I'm not a high end drinker and don't spend a lot of money on any bottle I buy. So far this keeps up pretty well with what I've purchased. My goal is to get about ten years on it, or some of it.
Cheers, man. I’d love to have access to freshly emptied bourbon barrels but NZ is a long way from Tennessee. I’m hoping to fill a 220L freshly emptied red wine barrel at some point, but that’s gonna be a bit of work!
JustinNZ wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 10:33 pm
Cheers, man. I’d love to have access to freshly emptied bourbon barrels but NZ is a long way from Tennessee. I’m hoping to fill a 220L freshly emptied red wine barrel at some point, but that’s gonna be a bit of work!
Wine isn't Bourbon, so the toast and char might not be the same unless you prepare the barrel.
I've seen red wine barrels give white likker a funny color.
It takes a lot of molasses, work, etc. to fill a 220l cask, then what do you do with it? How old are you? It's a project you should start when you are young enough to reap the benefits, then drawing off enough to keep your drinks cabinet stocked and making enough each year to keep it topped up.
A used Bourbon or rum barrel would be much more desirable, but I haven't seen one for sale in NZ for several decades, which is one reason why I age in glass. Another reason is that glass lets me age a variety of rum styles using various woods, toasts and protocols, which gives me options on blending day when I want to put something together for the drinks cabinet.
NZChris wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:25 pm
I've seen red wine barrels give white likker a funny color.
If I had my choice Id use X Port Barrels , the problem is they are hard to come by unless you have a barrel that you have stored Port in long term your self. I also wouldn't hesitate to age Rum in any X Red Wine barrel. Ive used staves from Red wine barrels that have been heavily stained with red wine , to the point where they have red crystals of wine on them, They have done nothing but add to the colour and complexity of the end product.
I guess like many things distilling related its comes down to personal choice.
I had a bottle of Arrack that had been aged for twelve years in so many different barrels that the original character had disappeared, (if it was really there in the beginning). It wasn't the first time I've tasted a likker that had been aged in so many barrels that I couldn't really identify what the original spirit was. One of them was an expensive rum that had lost it's 'rumness' in exchange for flavors from the various wine, brandy, whiskey and bourbon barrels it had spent time in. As long as enough customers buy the advertising blurb that the producers can make a profit from selling their product, it's all good.
I’m just a wee lad of 51, Chris! I was hoping to put a variety of aged rums (mostly 1 or 2 year olds from jars containing US Oak) into a 5-year-old (a guess) Martinborough ex Pinot Noir barrel for a year or two with the goal of getting a bit more complexity on the palate and nose - and maybe a bit of mellowing and mouthfeel from the air-transfer thing the angels organise. Perhaps a smaller cask or some 50L stainless tanks might be more realistic.
Almost six months blanc on glass at around 60%, proofed a little tonight “42%” and I got told my first SBBAMR’r taste like Mezcal. I’m fine with it. I speculate the mezcal taste comes from me cutting’ into the tails. The strip that come out tinted.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
I get that specific gravity readings are generally not great for an all molasses wash. However, I think mine has finished fermenting after 5 days. Starting gravity was 1.080 and is now 1.052. I decided to take my refractometer down to the garage and apparently, my wash is at 33% ABV. Surely this cannot be correct (the refractometer is calibrated with distilled water.) The strain of yeast I used was Saccharomyces cerevisiae, which is ethanol tolerant but stops growing at 14% ABV.
Not sure what I'm asking if anything. I'm going to strip it tomorrow and see what I get. Has anyone else had a wash show this high (I don't believe it's correct.)
BigTed68 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:28 am
I get that specific gravity readings are generally not great for an all molasses wash. However, I think mine has finished fermenting after 5 days. Starting gravity was 1.080 and is now 1.052. I decided to take my refractometer down to the garage and apparently, my wash is at 33% ABV. Surely this cannot be correct (the refractometer is calibrated with distilled water.) The strain of yeast I used was Saccharomyces cerevisiae, which is ethanol tolerant but stops growing at 14% ABV.
Not sure what I'm asking if anything. I'm going to strip it tomorrow and see what I get. Has anyone else had a wash show this high (I don't believe it's correct.)
Many Thanks,
BT
Your refractometer will not read a wash with unfermentables in it correctly so it isn’t usable here. Calculating your Abv it should be 3.68% which is very low for a pure molasses wash. Can you give more details about what you did? I looked back a few posts but didn’t see them. Also what was the temp you took each reading at? High temp on the OG will really throw that reading off.
Edit: why do you think it’s finished after 5 days? It’s likely still working. What temp has it been fermenting at? Is there any surface activity?
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.
BigTed68 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:28 am
I get that specific gravity readings are generally not great for an all molasses wash. However, I think mine has finished fermenting after 5 days. Starting gravity was 1.080 and is now 1.052. I decided to take my refractometer down to the garage and apparently, my wash is at 33% ABV. Surely this cannot be correct (the refractometer is calibrated with distilled water.) The strain of yeast I used was Saccharomyces cerevisiae, which is ethanol tolerant but stops growing at 14% ABV.
Not sure what I'm asking if anything. I'm going to strip it tomorrow and see what I get. Has anyone else had a wash show this high (I don't believe it's correct.)
Many Thanks,
BT
Your refractometer will not read a wash with unfermentables in it correctly so it isn’t usable here. Calculating your Abv it should be 3.68% which is very low for a pure molasses wash. Can you give more details about what you did? I looked back a few posts but didn’t see them. Also what was the temp you took each reading at? High temp on the OG will really throw that reading off.
Edit: why do you think it’s finished after 5 days? It’s likely still working. What temp has it been fermenting at?
That makes sense about the refractometer. The wash is in my unheated garage so is exposed to the changes in ambient temperature (lows of 10 celsius and highs of about 20 celsius.) The fermentation was vigorous to start with with a thick layer of foam / bubbles on top of the wash. Now there doesn't appear to be any activity. I'll leave it a few more days and take another hydrometer reading. I followed the recipe to the letter, except for I rehydrated my yeast in 1.5L of 30 degree celsius water and some granulated white sugar for 30 minutes before pitching. I may have thrown half a kilogram of brown sugar in too which i just had lying around.
My knee jerk reaction is it isn’t done yet. The fermenter is likely too cold as it is way below the effective range of your yeast (20-32C is what I found, but didn’t look too hard). Too low of a temp means your yeast will slow down or even stop its activity. It doesn’t kill them, so usually warming it up alone will get things going again. What options do you have to warm it up? For example, can you move it inside to warm it back up or wrap it in a blanket?
You can also just leave it alone and see if it keeps going on its own, but it will be really slow at those temps and may result in some off flavors.
If you post more information about the molasses and its sugar content / volumes as well as any extra sugar used it will help us judge a little more, but regardless it sounds like a slow ferment due to low temperature..
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.
Dougmatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:51 am
My knee jerk reaction is it isn’t done yet. The fermenter is likely too cold as it is way below the effective range of your yeast (20-32C is what I found, but didn’t look too hard). Too low of a temp means your yeast will slow down or even stop its activity. It doesn’t kill them, so usually warming it up alone will get things going again. What options do you have to warm it up? For example, can you move it inside to warm it back up or wrap it in a blanket?
You can also just leave it alone and see if it keeps going on its own, but it will be really slow at those temps and may result in some off flavors.
If you post more information about the molasses and its sugar content / volumes as well as any extra sugar used it will help us judge a little more, but regardless it sounds like a slow ferment due to low temperature..
I can wrap it in a blanket. Bringing it inside is a no from Mrs BT as molasses have a somewhat unique odour. I used 5L of 42% sucrose blackstrap molasses, plus 500g of brown sugar and probably 100g of white sugar for pitching the yeast. My wash size is 22 litres.
You’ve got to get it warm. Get a good audio book, a thick sleeping bag, and use body heat to bring it back to life. Just curl up like hand holding a cold beer. That wash needs you. Don’t let anyone see you.
I’m tending to agree that it’s simply too cold . My washes will take over a month if its in low 20°C’s . I can’t imajine it ever finishing if it gets down to 10°.
Although Justin's suggestion to cuddle the fermenter might work so long as nobody see’s you , you could try getting a heat pad or belt from a home brew shop . Some also use aquarium heaters .
And to test if the wash is done , simply taste it . It should have lost all it’s sweetness and just have a molasses taste but be bitter not sweet .
May I also suggest , when you follow a recipe , do it to a tee . I suspect you didn’t use the bread yeast that Salt Bush uses . He also says to keep it warm .I know there is stuff around saying that Bread yeast( Bakers yeast) is not suitable for distilling . Such material was distributed by Home brew shops that wanted to sell you their expensive speciality yeasts . The fact is Bakers yeast works absolutely fine for most things distilling and especially for Rum .
