Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by OlympicMtDoo »

NZChris wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 2:01 pm The answers are in the original post. Advice not to use breakfast cereal is in the OP. Where to look for it is in the OP

I get wheat bran in the baking section of the local supermarket.
Yes NZChris I read that suggestion in the original post but was unable to find any plain wheat bran and as it said it was advised not to use cereal not any hard rule. I have also read where to find it but there is none available in my town or at least the nearest town to me. I have already decided to order on line now as I do much of my supplies living in a supply challenged area that I do. I got impatient and that is the rule I broke. Thanks for the reply anyhow Chris.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Garouda »

OlympicMtDoo wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:29 am I see you mention a mess with the wheat Still Workin, could you expand on that a little? I was going to put up a Teddy's fast wash yesterday and ended up with the biggest damn mess I've ever made in connection with this hobby.
It's very simple, if you pour all your bran in boiling water, it'll overflow, same result if you pour it in cold water and bring it to boil. I got it once, this is what is usually named the "learning curve". Since then, I add my bran in small quantities, the next portion comes after the turmoil of the previous one ended, and stir now and then while keeping an eye on your stuff, it's as simple as that... Do you leave milk unattended on the stove?
BTW forget about those expensive breakfast brans, if there's a mill in your region get some there.
Some use bran to fish for carp.
I use rice bran I get for free from the rice mill in the village where we get our rice hulled (sticky rice). :D
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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guest5234 wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 4:01 am Made this and it tasted very good, carbon filtered it nd it is up there with the very best vodkas on the market, so smooth I can drink it with just ice
I agree the carbon makes a huge difference 🍻
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Garouda wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:02 am
OlympicMtDoo wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:29 am I see you mention a mess with the wheat Still Workin, could you expand on that a little? I was going to put up a Teddy's fast wash yesterday and ended up with the biggest damn mess I've ever made in connection with this hobby.
It's very simple, if you pour all your bran in boiling water, it'll overflow, same result if you pour it in cold water and bring it to boil. I got it once, this is what is usually named the "learning curve". Since then, I add my bran in small quantities, the next portion comes after the turmoil of the previous one ended, and stir now and then while keeping an eye on your stuff, it's as simple as that... Do you leave milk unattended on the stove?
BTW forget about those expensive breakfast brans, if there's a mill in your region get some there.
Some use bran to fish for carp.
I use rice bran I get for free from the rice mill in the village where we get our rice hulled (sticky rice). :D
+1 Garouda. I boil my bran but watch Closely. Before you know it. Boiled over. I get red and white. For some reason the red boils over easier. Maybe it's my kitchen.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by OlympicMtDoo »

Thanks guys, the boil over was my own fault but it was not unattended I was standing right there my main issue is the fact that the stuff just turned to slime. Awful slime that stuck to everything, stuff that I threw out into the woods.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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OlympicMtDoo wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:40 am Thanks guys, the boil over was my own fault but it was not unattended I was standing right there my main issue is the fact that the stuff just turned to slime. Awful slime that stuck to everything, stuff that I threw out into the woods.
It sounds like you gelatinized some starch, which is not a good idea unless you are using enzymes. I have successfully turned a load of various breakfast cereals into a nice UJSSM style whiskey, but simply emptied the boxes into the fermenter.

I don't do TFFV, but I have used about a fifth of the amount of bran, pouring boiling water over it and letting it cool. It was a bit slower than TFFV and the wash would have had a lot less wheat flavor.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by OlympicMtDoo »

I'm going to order some plain wheat bran and give this another try down the road, or maybe I could find something to substitute for the wheat bran?
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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NZChris wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:41 pm I don't do TFFV, but I have used about a fifth of the amount of bran, pouring boiling water over it and letting it cool. It was a bit slower than TFFV and the wash would have had a lot less wheat flavor.
As I get my rice bran for free I use 1 kg for a TFFV x3 batch, say 69 litres.
Well, with a reflux still there is no flavour at all, like a real vodka should taste.
With some wheat flavour, it's not a vodka any more but a Belgian Jenever, Genièvre or Péket...
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Garouda wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:34 pm With some wheat flavour, it's not a vodka any more but a Belgian Jenever, Genièvre or Péket...
I thought you had to have some juniper in the spirit to be able to call it Jenever? My own Jenever is made using a wheat based spirit, re-distilled with my choice of botanicals in the pot.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Garouda »

NZChris wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 12:09 am
Garouda wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:34 pm With some wheat flavour, it's not a vodka any more but a Belgian Jenever, Genièvre or Péket...
I thought you had to have some juniper in the spirit to be able to call it Jenever? My own Jenever is made using a wheat based spirit, re-distilled with my choice of botanicals in the pot.
If you have a strong junipers taste, it's a gin. There's also some juniper in Genièvre, the name Junipers is genévrier in French and Jeneverbes in Dutch, hence genièvre, or jenever, but it does not taste like a gin, more like wheat, there are junipers in it, but you do not taste it like in a gin, wheat is overwhelming. Péket in Walloon also means junipers.
If you add some botanicals, you are more in the direction of an aquavit, where there are often some cumin, anise and other herbs. One famous aquavit is Linie aquavit that is supposed to age on a ship in Sherry oak barrels and cross the equator twice, hence the name Linie. Another one is Malteser Kreuz.
In Hannover (Germany), there's a tradition called Lüttje Lage (not sure about the spelling though) You have a small glass of a local beer in your hand and with your index, middle finger and ring finger of the same hand, you hold a small glass of aquavit. You must drink both together, pouring your aquavit into your beer as you go without making a mess. I got the certificate attesting I successfully passed the test, it was at least 35 years ago...
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by NZChris »

Thanks for that, Garouda.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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My pleasure! :thumbup:
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Teddysad wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:27 pm Do NOT seal for at least 24 hours as a thick foamy cap will form within an hour. I put it under an airlock only after 36 hrs so I can monitor progress.
Try to follow recipe as much I could (1st ever patch of this coming) but this part I dont get. What it hurt to put airlock from beginning? I undestand if using turbo yeast, you maybe not want to use air lock at least basic one, but with baker yeast? Does it difference if you have air lock or not, air not get any more on ferment, when with lid open, you get co2 floating top of ferment any way.

And for record:

4kg sugar
200g wheat bran (what I think was meant, cooked 30min, 4 liter water)
2 pcs b multi vitamins
1 pcs b12 vitamin
epsom salt
0,5 DAP
citric acid 0,5-1 tsp
50g fresh yeast

SG was around 1.060 and pH 5? (Have inaccurate measure slips, I check tomorrow again) @ 27C temperature
Last edited by Jabman on Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Garouda »

Jabman wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 1:44 pm
Teddysad wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:27 pm Do NOT seal for at least 24 hours as a thick foamy cap will form within an hour. I put it under an airlock only after 36 hrs so I can monitor progress.
Try to follow recipe as much I could (1st ever patch of this coming) but this part I don't get. What it hurt to put airlock from beginning? I understand if using turbo yeast, you maybe not want to use air lock at least basic one, but with baker yeast? Does it difference if you have air lock or not, air not get any more on ferment, when with lid open, you get co2 floating top of ferment any way.
It all depends upon your batch size, I've made several HL so far, each time basic recipe x3 or 69 litres. I have a SS 98 litres fermenter that I sterilize with my boiling water, put a lid on it and let it cool down to pitch the yeast. Then as soon as the fermentation starts, you have a layer of CO2 (heavier than air) that protects your wash. I've never got any significant foamy cap. For a smaller batch, you can use an airlock right away. To make sure that the CO2 layer works effectively, your fermenter must allow a certain distance between the wash and the lid. In my case, the fermenter is H 50cm x Ø 50 cm, 69 litres take 35 cm, so I have 15 cm for de CO2 layer, at least once a day I open the lid which releases the CO2 in excess, I can hear a nice fizzling each time I do so.
Method : what I do is dissolving the sugar in two large saucepans of around 12–14 litres each which I put to boil, then I cook the bran, I use glutinous rice bran which I have for free, it works very well. I pour all this boiling liquid into my fermenter. I do this in the evening. The next day, when everything has cooled down, I add water to obtain the 69 litres of the recipe (3 x 23), I add the vitamins, the nutrient salts, citric acid if needed, and the yeast that I have reactivated. I aerate everything with a large kitchen whisk. In fact, there is already more than enough yeast, oxygen for the yeast multiplication is not really necessary here, 50g of yeast for 23 litres is more than enough, in theory you need 70g for a one HL batch...
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Garouda wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:50 am 50g of yeast for 23 litres is more than enough, in theory you need 70g for a one HL batch...
Ah, forgot to mention that it was fresh baker yeast that I use, not dry yeast. I have read somewhere that if you pitch too much healthy yeast, that is not good thing, but fresh yeast 50g should be ok.

Let's see what happens. It started quite fast. Don't know yet if I open the lid and check pH and gravity, almost now 24h running. Have some eggshells ready to toss in if pH goes too low. But would be nice if not need go to that.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Jabman wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 1:44 pm
Teddysad wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:27 pm Do NOT seal for at least 24 hours as a thick foamy cap will form within an hour. I put it under an airlock only after 36 hrs so I can monitor progress.
Try to follow recipe as much I could (1st ever patch of this coming) but this part I dont get. What it hurt to put airlock from beginning? I undestand if using turbo yeast, you maybe not want to use air lock at least basic one, but with baker yeast? Does it difference if you have air lock or not, air not get any more on ferment, when with lid open, you get co2 floating top of ferment any way.

And for record:

4kg sugar
200g wheat bran (what I think was meant, cooked 30min, 4 liter water)
2 pcs b multi vitamins
1 pcs b12 vitamin
epsom salt
0,5 DAP
citric acid 0,5-1 tsp
50g fresh yeast

SG was around 1.060 and pH 5? (Have inaccurate measure slips, I check tomorrow again) @ 27C temperature
For what it's worth (~100 25l batches, SG 1.06 - 1.065), while I try to give it some "open air time" at the beginning of the ferment, it was usually for a few hours and I *often* have just put it under airlock from the get go and have NEVER suffered anything more severe than a *slightly* slower start for the first few hours. A couple notes on that: #1 I aerate/oxygenate my ferment water very well beforehand. #2 I user warmers to keep my ferments running at 27C-28C.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Jabman wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:37 am It started quite fast.
That's already a positive sign, active yeast prevent the development of unwanted contaminants
Jabman wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 5:37 am Don't know yet if I open the lid and check pH and gravity, almost now 24h running. Have some eggshells ready to toss in if pH goes too low. But would be nice if not need to go to that.
Regularly measuring the pH or SG can be a source of contamination, avoid any intervention at the wash level as much as possible!
I've never used oysters or eggshells with this bulletproof recipe !
You are on the right track, good luck !
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Had very slow fermentation with this. Over week. Temperature was 27C whole time, start OG 1.060. Possible that my wheat doesn't include enough nutrients, but that is only box I could find on my local store. I planning to ferment second set today, but add some dead yeast (boiled) as for nutrient (extra) and leave that b vitamin off. I dont have now any multivitamins in hand.

Pot stripped it yesterday and got 6 liters @ 37,5% Didn't taste it (ok, with finger little little drop), but seems pretty solid, no of smell etc.

2 or 3 set more for pot strip and then spirit run with reflux.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Garouda »

I never experienced a wild fermentation with that recipe, so don't worry. About the B vitamins, your boiled yeast contains enough B vitamins, the bran has two functions, providing nutrients and fibres yeast can cling to.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Garouda wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 9:22 pm I never experienced a wild fermentation with that recipe, so don't worry. About the B vitamins, your boiled yeast contains enough B vitamins, the bran has two functions, providing nutrients and fibres yeast can cling to.
Actually I bought the multivitamin tablets. I strongly suspect my wheat bran that it has no enough nutrients, but let see that.

Changed also DAP to new pack. That is another question mark. Old pack says bb 2019 but does it really get old? Have store it in cool (+4C)

Just wonder this says 3-4 days to dry and I didn't get even close to that. Oh, and im not worry wild fermentation. Just wonder this speed issue. And also my mistake that take a brake one month and now again almost out of booze. :D

Second try: almost as recipe says, but added 11g boiled dry yeast extra as nutrient SG 1.057 pH 6
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Garouda »

Adding boiled yeast won't hurt and DAP has no expiration date, just keep it dry. pH 6 is still OK but at the upper limit, yeast like an acidic environment, ideally between 4-4.5. I made many batches at pH 5 without any problem, as I wrote earlier, I try to avoid unnecessary manipulations as much as possible.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Jabman wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:18 pm
Changed also DAP to new pack. That is another question mark. Old pack says bb 2019 but does it really get old? Have store it in cool (+4C)

Just wonder this says 3-4 days to dry and I didn't get even close to that.
Jabman , you’re not alone . I have never had a 3-4 day ferment from this or any other Sugar wash …… except from a Turdbo yeast pack . :ewink:

Despite my best efforts to follow recipe's to a tee and maintain critical temps ,blah blah , I can’t ever get better than 7-10 days ….. and then there is the settling and clearing time .
Is what it is .

I agree with Garuda , DAP doesn’t have a use by date .
We had similar Chemicals at my last lab that were close to 50 years old and were still very usable .
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by kennstminet »

I had similar results. It took 7 to 10 days and I was happy with the product. Never understood the desire for superfast fermentation.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Canuckwoods »

Same here, I was always worried that I had screwed up somehow as it didn't finish as quickly as it was supposed to. But I think the longer the better for the finished product.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Saltbush Bill »

There have been one or two members here over the years that have been obsessed with super fast ferments.......most distillers I know don't give a rats if it takes a bit longer as long as it finishes dry and clean.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:32 am There have been one or two members here over the years that have been obsessed with super fast ferments.......most distillers I know don't give a rats if it takes a bit longer as long as it finishes dry and clean.
I won't argue with the first part and agree it's a fools errand for the amateur (who is supposed to be doing it for the enjoyment.)

But to the distillers, even and maybe especially the small ones, time is money and they absolutely do focus on fast ferments and getting stuff from grain to barrel as quickly as possible to free up their equipment for the next batch.

So as long as the results are good don't sweat the time, but be aware that a very fast (and hot) ferment or a very slow one can indicate other issues that can stress the yeast and create less desirable flavors.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Jabman »

Nah, just wondering what I do wrong, but then 8 days from ferment to low wines. Not bad, but still looking to improve this. And yes, my wife doesn't like smelly fermenters in the bathroom, that's another reason to get it done fast.

Have better(?) wheat bran for next test, from small producer direct buy.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Jabman »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:32 am There have been one or two members here over the years that have been obsessed with super fast ferments.......most distillers I know don't give a rats if it takes a bit longer as long as it finishes dry and clean.
Just curiosity, why it takes 2 to 2,5 times longer. Im not obsessed that, my wife is. But I like to tweak it, until I get similar results. Or live with it, with wife complainings about smells. Or use turbo yeast,(that was a joke, never use turbo yeast)

But any way, got yesterday new patch coming, hopefully with better wheat bran. Actually it looked much better than what I had before. Locally made vs. industrially produced. Changed yeast also.

Also as I understand here is also debate does it really need to clean after it hit 0.990 or just still it?
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by samwell »

I thought TPW fermented kind of aggressive and quick, but holy shit this thing does ferment fast and aggressive HAHAHA. I started the ferment probably 5 hours ago and its non stop bubbles in my air lock right now. :clap: :lol:
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by howie »

Jabman wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:59 pm
Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:32 am There have been one or two members here over the years that have been obsessed with super fast ferments.......most distillers I know don't give a rats if it takes a bit longer as long as it finishes dry and clean.
Just curiosity, why it takes 2 to 2,5 times longer. Im not obsessed that, my wife is. But I like to tweak it, until I get similar results. Or live with it, with wife complainings about smells. Or use turbo yeast,(that was a joke, never use turbo yeast)

But any way, got yesterday new patch coming, hopefully with better wheat bran. Actually it looked much better than what I had before. Locally made vs. industrially produced. Changed yeast also.

Also as I understand here is also debate does it really need to clean after it hit 0.990 or just still it?
having probably done many many FFV over the past few years, it is better to wait.
at first i used to get excited and run it as soon as it hit 0.990, and got about 5L low wines per 25L wash.
now i have stock, i just leave the thing to clean up, and get about 6L low wines per 25l wash.
i don't have any scientific reason, but i do the exactly the same recipe now as day 1, and have seen the difference in the volume of low wines with patience.
i think maybe it's as simple as - the yeast have had a great party, eating all the simple sugars.
when all the good stuff has gone, they turn their attention to other stuff (a bit like me at a party :wink: )
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