For Best Results Keep the Mash ABV's Down

[shadylane]

People are going to grow tired of spoon feeding you answers to questions that you can find if you simply use the search feature here:

This is the new to distillation section.

[Deplorable]

People are going to grow tired of spoon feeding you answers to questions that you can find if you simply use the search feature here:

This is the new to distillation section.

You're right. I deleted my post. I was out of line.

[Saltbush Bill]

Funny story, I got into this hobby after a distiller friend of mine convinced me to pull the trigger. After countless hours of learning stuff from HD and implementing it in my process, When I talk to him now, I realize he literally does all the stuff you shouldn’t do.

Had a bit of a chuckle when I read this story.......I think we all know one.

[Hebden]

Thank you for that 3:1 ratio, that is great advice.

It depends on how you are heating it.

When you say heating "it", do you mean the fermentor?
How do the commercial distilleries and professionals heat it?
And what is the best way?

Read my post again.

Yep, ok, I have read your post again and I think I understand. If I am correct, you can run a half pot under certain circumstances, that would perhaps mean you wouldn't want to be using an electric element that would possibly run dry, whereas a bain marie or a burner underneath may be fine?

As for economy, I guess a Bain Marie is terrible as you would be heating much more liquid than is required to be heated.

End product quality/smoothness-wise, my intuition is that a Bain Marie would produce a wonderfully even heating source, a Burner underneath would be next best as it would give the next most even heat source to the pot, and then an element or two would be the least gentle on the wash/mash as it could potentially scorch the ingredients as it is of such small surface area, meaning it must become really hot.

Would that be anywhere near a decent theory?

[NormandieStill]

As for economy, I guess a Bain Marie is terrible as you would be heating much more liquid than is required to be heated.

You'd want oil otherwise you'll find it hard to get the liquid in your boiler to temperature.

End product quality/smoothness-wise, my intuition is that a Bain Marie would produce a wonderfully even heating source, a Burner underneath would be next best as it would give the next most even heat source to the pot, and then an element or two would be the least gentle on the wash/mash as it could potentially scorch the ingredients as it is of such small surface area, meaning it must become really hot.

Would that be anywhere near a decent theory?

It depends!

Heating elements come in various watt densities. Meaning that two 5500W elements of different lengths (or even tube diameters) will heat distribute heat more or less. You can reduce the risk of a high watt density element scorching by turning it down and doubling up (2 x 2500W versus 1 x 5000W for example). A bain marie seems ideal, but a burner under a heavy bottomed pot may well function as well as a bain marie around a thin skinned one.

And all of that is irrelevant if you're not putting stuff in that can scorch. A sugar wash run dry and cleared well (little or no floating yeast) will probably not scorch at high power whereas a corn mash with lots of bits could scorch at a much lower power.

As for the effect on the end product, as long as you don't scorch it you won't have an effect (that I'm aware of) on the smoothness. The only place where it starts to become interesting is when you are creating esters in the pot. Here a long slow heat-up is preferable to a rapid one, but with the appropriate equipment this can be achieved through any of the heating methods you listed.

In short, a bain marie is interesting if you want to distill on the grain (or pulp). Most people here are using electric or gas. A few have steam for on-grain stripping but that's a whole other rabbit hole to dive down.

[shadylane]

Re: For Best Results Keep the Mash ABV's Down

Mash or sugar wash, 10% or less is best.

[bunny]

Re: For Best Results Keep the Mash ABV's Down

Mash or sugar wash, 10% or less is best.

I have the time to try this but would rather melt stay-brite on some copper.

I believe your under 10% statement.

I guessed your recipe is a "happy spot" most people who can read and follow directions could probably achieve.

However, would there be much difference if you diluted Shady's Sugar Shine wash by 50% down to about 5-6%?

I'm sure you toyed with this and know the answer.

Please share.


This is what almost 2 years in this hole has done to me:

[shadylane]

I believe your under 10% statement.

I guessed your recipe is a "happy spot" most people who can read and follow directions could probably achieve.

However, would there be much difference if you diluted Shady's Sugar Shine wash by 50% down to about 5-6%?

The only time I've done a 6% wash, was when I miscounted the sugar sacks.
On day 3 the ferment was done. The 6% wash tasted and smelled better than 10%.
Almost good enough drink as is.

A lower % might be good when pot-stilling.
For reflux distilling a 10% wash makes more alcohol.
Much above 10% and bakers yeast becomes unhealthy and starts making cardboard flavored alcohol.

[bunny]

I believe your under 10% statement.

I guessed your recipe is a "happy spot" most people who can read and follow directions could probably achieve.

However, would there be much difference if you diluted Shady's Sugar Shine wash by 50% down to about 5-6%?

The only time I've done a 6% wash, was when I miscounted the sugar sacks.
On day 3 the ferment was done. The 6% wash tasted and smelled better than 10%.
Almost good enough drink as is.

A lower % might be good when pot-stilling.
For reflux distilling a 10% wash makes more alcohol.
Much above 10% and bakers yeast becomes unhealthy and starts making cardboard flavored alcohol.

Well, since you put it that way

I think I'll give it a try

[shadylane]

Going to try using less sugar for pot-stilling?
Or lots more, to see how much tails sick yeast can piss?

[bunny]

Going to try using less sugar for pot-stilling?
Or lots more, to see how much tails sick yeast can piss?

Neither actually, 8lbs in 12 gallons total. Half my usual.

Will strip with pot and spirit with 45* LM head on 48" spp column.

[shadylane]

Go for it.

[bunny]

Go for it.

Well that's finished.
I ran an 8lb sugar/ 12 gal wash.
Finished in under 36 hrs.
Tasted better than my usual wash.

I followed that with my typical 16lb sugar/ 12 gal wash for comparison. Finished under 48 hrs.

I stripped the 8lb wash twice to 208* and then did an excruciatingly slow spirit run. 125mls/hr with 375 watts.

I did the same double strip with the 16 lb wash and repeated the same excruciatingly slow spirit run.

My results are interesting.
After diluting each to about 11-12% with Smartwater my buddy and I were unable to tell them apart.
There really wasn't any taste in either, just an alcohol feel in my mouth.
Now I made a third 11-12% sample with store bought Absolut.

The only perceived difference we could detect was a slight lingering finish(not offensive, just different) coming from the Absolut.
No finish at all from my slow spirited samples.

Considering how thorough my process is at cleaning up the wash I see no need to intentionally go with less sugar in my batches.

[Oatmeal]

Thanks for posting your results bunny. I'm gearing up to try some ferments in the 5 to 6% range for whiskey, to see the impact, if any, on flavor.

I'll probably shift my "neutral" ferments up a bit in abv based on the recent discussion in this thread....