If you wound the coil without using any kind of packing to keep it from kinking (salt, sand, etc...) it likely could have flattened which would reduce the inside area of it. That could be the reason for such a low flow rate.
My guess is the pump though. Those pumps are designed to push a lot of water with minimal resistance. When resistance is increased, their flow rate suffers significantly. It's like trying to have a Prius pull a horse trailer.
At least that's what I'm guessing, could be way off though
Hopefully your faucet will be better about "pushing" the water through the condenser. If you looking at other possible pumps I would look for one which can pump water up a significant incline, that way it won't have any issue with the resistance that your condenser gives. Best of luck, your entire build looks terrific!
Yeah I would give the faucet a try and see. If the flow is nice you could look into a direct drive pump, which I'm sure will provide the needed pressure, you will just have to build a bypass manifold to keep from burning it out or at least shortening its lifespan.
Litebread wrote:Yeah I would give the faucet a try and see. If the flow is nice you could look into a direct drive pump, which I'm sure will provide the needed pressure, you will just have to build a bypass manifold to keep from burning it out or at least shortening its lifespan.
-Litebread
Yeah... Faucet is the next step. Going to swing by the Depot at lunch, and get the required parts. is how I feel!
Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
just a thought KY, have you tried hooking directly to the copper? Those compression fittings sometimes have a reduced inner diameter and can really restrict flow. Even a full bore 90 will restrict somewhat. Worth a try.
bellybuster wrote:just a thought KY, have you tried hooking directly to the copper? Those compression fittings sometimes have a reduced inner diameter and can really restrict flow. Even a full bore 90 will restrict somewhat. Worth a try.
No... Not yet. I will keep that option open, though.
Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
Update... The wife has been wanting to change the washers hoses, so I hooked the condenser up, before finishing the job. She can definitely flow! Turned her on, and water started flowing. Played around with it, and was able to get a perfect 1 LPM. Turned her all the way up, and let's just say I should've tightened down my band clamps. I would really prefer to use a pump, so I'm open to the best suggestions. I'll do the math, and see how much the water bill would go up, just in case. Now... I have to go dry the water off the ceiling, before the wife gets home.
Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
Did a little research. If I'm reading this right, my extra water would cost, at most, $0.35. This would be for a six hour run, flowing 1 LPM. If so, this wouldn't be so bad. Maybe I will just hook to the faucet. Sure beats paying for an expensive pump.
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Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
I never used a pipe less than 3/8 but it seems most here use the mag drive pond pumps without problems. Just need the right head lift. That's not saying many other pumps will work. Good luck.
that would be a couple hundred runs just to break even. I did the math on mine as well and came to the same decision. I still try not to waste all that water though, I use some for my next wash etc etc.
Glad to see all worked out.
Now that the biggest bugs have been worked out, I decided it was time to finally tag her. Hand hammered, and hand stamped, out 3/4" copper pipe. Our all copper build will have a similar tag. That one will read Boiler 1. Now, I just have to learn how to run her.
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Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
So... Steam run was a success. No leaks. Kitchen is smelling all to high heaven, with vinegar, as I type. Sacrificial, of Gerber, is planned for Monday. Thought I had my head wrapped around how to run a Boka, but now I'm rethinking things. I'm sure I'll learn more, with an actual run. Here's how I have it planned, for the sacrificial... Full tilt on power, till thermometer starts to spike, then back it down. On this vinegar run, I shot from 76 to 212 in about 3 seconds. Turn cooling water on to about 1 LPM a minute. Slowly increase power till thermometer reads about 173. Let column equalise for about 15 min or so. Adjust take off valve to about 4 drips per sec. Readjust power if neccesary.
So... From my research, 1 LPM seems to be about the sweet spot for cooling rate. Yes or no?
I figure if I can adjust power to hold temp at 173°f, while equalising, that should mean my column isnt flooding. I have tried all kinds of possible combos of power, cooling flow, and take off rate in the last two hours. This was to listen for drips, coming off the bottom plate to the packing, to see if I could hear them. Couldnt hear squat. I figure that while running a wash, if the column floods, the temp should fluctuate . With this being a vinegar run, thermometer has held steady at 212 the whole time. Output flow temp is 140°f. That is at 150v, with a 5500w element, running on 220. Output flow temp goes up, as the volts do.
I've read. Reread. Plugged numbers into calculators till I saw them in my sleep. I'm close, I know I am. I just need that "AHA!" moment that I know I'll find. Till then, any and all guidance is appreciated.
Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
The best thread I found on a boka is the one in my signature. It's by Husker and the way he explained running it just clicked for me.
Just one thing in what you said, you mentioned adjusting your heat input to hold the vapor at 173 and this should keep the column from flooding. Well, not really. You do adjust the heat input to keep it from flooding but the 173 is the temp of the alcohol vapor once it is equalized and stacked. I take it you are going to be doing a sacraficial alcohol run? Good time to play around and see how things work. I used to use DAD's method and feel the column. You will feel the boil rising up it slowly (and it will be getting hot as it is doing this) but when you are 3/4 the way up cut back on the heat a bit and then slowly ajust it to see how much it takes you to get to reflux. Each still is different so you have to see. When it equalizes, do a little fast takeoff and watch the temp rise. Close your takeoff again and watch the temp go back down as the alcohol equalizes again. All without adjusting the heat.
As far as the LPM cooling flow, I don't know, I recirculate and it just seems to come out hot. If it gets too hot to hold my hand in the return stream, I open it all the way. I use a half inch coil so I get a lot of flow. One day I am wanting to rig a thermometer on it and see what I have but what I'm doing seems to work.
Very impressive build Kentucky Chemist. The boiler plate is a great personaliztion.
As I was reading thru the cooling dilema and solution, my first thought was pump deadhead. And it seems that is the case. Most pond pumps don't lift water very high. So, flowrate goes to zero as the elevation difference is increased.
Now, using the faucet likely is your cheapest solution. But if you're still looking for a recirculating solution, try a water system recirculation pump. For example, http://www.ebay.com/itm/115V-3-Speed-67 ... 1116479942" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
This pump has 3 speeds (meaning flowrates) and has adequate discharge head capacity to elevate water to your condensing coils. You could put a flow control valve on the discharge line of your condenser (or near the water return to the water tank) to regulate the flowrate as needed. That would help eliminate cavitation in the pump too.
Now I'm thinking of the same solution, because I want my system to be transportable and I may not always have a water faucet within reach.
Once again, I'm impressed with your design and construction skills. And I earnestly waiting for the "production report".
Thank you for the kind words, and info, still_stirren. As I write this, sac run is in progress. Even though I had read it, and reread the LM operation instructions. They didn't make sense till I was actually doing it. For that last 4 hours, thermometer has held steady at 174°. Top of column is warm, but I can hold it for about 10 seconds. Cooling output, I can keep my hand under it for about 5. Controller says I'm at 125 volts, with 5500w element, running on 220. I can also hear dripping where my column meets the head. So far, I have put her into full reflux twice. Once, after the first 12 oz. Reflux for 30 min. Then after about 20 oz, for another 30min. The second time was where things started smelling less harsh. So far, my highest measurement has been 92% abv. I think I'm doing something right...
Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
Well, with about 12 or so successful runs under my belt, I decided its about time for a little bit of an upgrade. I love producing a good neutral, but I want to start playing around with some other recipes. I would like to try some all grains, sweet feed, etc. So, I figured we needed to build a pot-head attachment. For a Boka, I feel like its better to just use a simple sugar wash, since you get basically a neutral with the flavor stripped from it. So, I haven't messed with a recipe where more quality ingredients are needed. I've just been doing Gerber, and I feel I have a good handle on that recipe. Plus, I'd like to make a run, and not babysit for 10hrs, not that I don't enjoy. So, here's the plan. I'll list parts as they move from column to takeoff. Ferrule-90°-straight section of tubing-90° to go down-ferrule-ferrule-shotgun condensor-takeoff. We are starting with the condenser, so that way we can build backwards to get it where we want. Shotgun will be 2.5" tubing, 18" long, with 7 1/2" tubes inside. The end plates will be about 1/4" thick, with ferrules welded to each end. This will allow the condensing tubes to be inspected, whenever needed, and easier to rinse out. The takeoff will be, simply, a tri-clamp end cap, drilled, with a piece of 1/2" tubing welded to it. The attachment is the beginning of our end caps. We were able to get this done after work, today.
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Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
We have one more end cap to machine, then the main body of the shotgun can be welded up. We're still waiting on 90°s to get the rest of the column done.
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Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
Things are moving along nicely. A few more welds, and we'll be in business. I have proud papa syndrome, I know, but this thing is gonna be awesome. I particularly like that I have access to the cooling tubes, if so needed.
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Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
Well... She's pretty much ready for the vinegar and sacrificial. All that needs to be done is weld up the take off tube into the end cap. The water connection fittings are custom. Those were some scrap 1/2mpt x 1/4 tube connectors. The 1/4" section was cut off, and bent pieces of 3/8 were welded on, on the inside. From the profile, the condensor is inline with the column. From the front, she "leans" in about 1/8", towards the bottom. I'll just level the keg so the condenser is plumb, during a run.
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Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
Wow, what a great thread. KY, you and The Mechanic are really making some great equipment. I have really enjoyed following your progress. Keep posting man!
First off, I want to say "Thank you" to coastershiner, and to all of you who have left comments lately. Its always good to know when your work is appreciated. Truth be told, none of this would've come to fruition without the kind folks of this community. Second, its a bittersweet day, here at Savaged Distillates. This is the last run this rig is going to make... Wait for it... At this house! LOL. in about a week, the wife and I are going to be upgrading. Moving from an 8?? Sqft house to a 1300 sqft house. The new house also has a DRY basement, that I get a corner of... A very nice sized corner. And it comes with a garage, and a little over an acre of yard. For some reason, they don't count the basement, in the sqft, since it is unfinished. I get to have my secret door bookshelf entrance to my workshop/still room, if she gets design control for the first floor. What a sucker! She was just gonna end up getting that anyways! Anywho... Might be a couple months before I'm set up, at the earliest, and running again.
Whiskey is rays of sunshine, held together with water.
is how I feel!
