Home Distiller

corene1 wrote:...because that makes it taste right for me.

Corene, I did include the surfaces of the top and bottom of the barrel. I think it was a great idea to approximate the amount of area in a barrel to the volume of spirits to get an idea of how much charred oak stick to use when aging in jars. But, I also think the dynamics of small scale aging in mason jars is so different from rolling barrels around a rackhouse that, in the end, experimentation and shared results have proven to be the most valuable method for us. I started out just charring my oak sticks, but after reading the T-Pee way I started toasting them first and it has made a huge difference in my whiskey.

Edit: Posted while Jimbo was replying. Horked? lol, I think I'm going to start using that. I think anyone who's been on this site for a little bit of time would trust your math, Jimbo! My math was more just an exercise for myself. It still surprised me that with so much info on the internet, that as soon as you try to did a little deeper than the surface, and get some more specific details about something, the information becomes much more sparse, and more and more horked. lol, yep, I gonna start using that for sure.

The other thing that happens in a barrel too, and not in glass, is loss. Ive lost 20%+ in less than year in my 5gal barrel. So if its 125 in/gal. and you lose 20%, that level of oaking becomes 156 in/gal, or 39 in/qt. Thats a lot, and thats why folks like Balcones have fill/empty dates 10 months apart on their small barrels. Im sticking with 22 in/qt in glass. It works for me and I still have to pull the oak out between 6 months and a year to keep from over oaking.

HDNB wrote:

MichiganCornhusker wrote:

Jimbo wrote: I think their numbers are jacked.

When in doubt, go with HD

yep, a week with 3 or 4 1x1x1 cubes of ex-bourbon barrel in a quart of UJ tastes just like....bourbon. longer it sits the smoother and better it tastes.
6 if you are running low on sipping stock and gotta get the job done.

the back story:
just wanted to add to this. i am following basically the same process that T-pee has outlined here, with small variation of 1" cubes, toasted at 380, medium char and "cask" stregth of 62.
I have a 3 gallon mother carboy that i fill with my best cuts and continually add likker and wood to, and take some for sipping. when it gets full i bottle it, leaving the wood and 3-4 quarts to start the next fill. the process cycle is about 3 months, and after a year it has a lot of wood in it.

the idea was/is to maintain a similar flavour profile, as time goes by.

the observation (so far):
my sipping stock is smooth, nice flavour not very complex but enjoyable, from what ive read on other's results... i think very similar. I would tell you that when i bottled my first UJ batch born and oaked (ex-bourbon barrel) 3/14 and bottled 6/14 (sans oak) that it was described exactly that way^.
from 3/14 to today i'd say the flavour profile of the sipping stock has remained the same.

BUT...i ran out and was too lazy to make the walk to the shop so i thought i'd pull a "legacy" bottle of 3/14 out and give it a go.
the wood flavour has changed dramatically. it has a very distict bourbon flavour, quite smoky and stronger. there is more vanilla, more floral and it seems that it has more bite. almost headsy. there was some charcoal from the wood that has settled out. so i'm retracting the "smoother" statement (for now- see what a few more months does), but definitely has a more complex and enjoyable taste.

this is different from 2 months ago. tasting the same bottling, it was not very complex, smooth and the flavour was "delicate" meaning... it was nice, not very strong but it decayed rapidly when put on ice. much closer to the original sipping stock, but i thought the flavour was geting lost in time. two months later, and it has made a big swing the other direction.

sorry for blathering, thought this was on=topic with T-Pees OP since the process is so similar, just wanted to add my interpretation of what a bit of time has done.

cheers

Tokoroa_Shiner wrote:I think it might have been corene that made up some lids for mason jars.

Yep it was me, The crazy lady that won't leave well enough alone. Did you know that if you put an oak lid on white whiskey and don't let it touch the spirit it will still get a slight oak flavor to it and stay clear. Just me playing around again. If you look close you can see the slight staining that show on the lid where vapors come out when it breaths.

That ^^ is v.v.cool Corene. wish i had a lathe.

Corene Nice lid. Good job
A friend of mine has a wood lathe. I think I might be busy next week end.

I just finnished my first Hook Rum. I also came across Bucc bob's Rum essance and Pugi's rum oil, with this oaking. I should be good to go. My goal is Dark rum.
This topic is invaluable. Love it . Thanx guys

If I remember right she used two different size hole saws to make the lids. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =4&t=44034 here's the to her thread.

Just gotta chime in after following TP's recipe. Best I've had to date, the extra time spent in the container without the oak works wonders....THANX!!

Reading through the forum today I realized something I didn't discuss much in this thread is my oak charring process.
Granted, there are plenty of ways to do this and most work just fine but I have a tendency to control processes a little closer than just throwing wood on the bbq and firing it up.

Since I had some UJ freshly blended, in need of some toasted and charred oak and the fact that I like to char as needed I thought I'd simply video the process and share it with my fellow distillers. Charring the T-Pee way:

http://youtu.be/7NFVLXZqrDk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

tp

cough, cough, (HRMM) hyaaa. kinda smokey in here. someone open a door would ya?

I been wondering if i was over-doing the char. I get some great flavour and colors up fast...apparently we are on the same page though, i have been going for a similar "glow" nice to know i'm doin' something right.

great vid! thanks for that T-Pee!

I char using mixed gas, propane /oxygen, same mix I use for cutting. Now, I get good and charred, but rarely have glowing edges, when the grain starts to lift , I move along. Is that too fast? And if so, what change does the longer char do to infuse more flavor?

It's just my way of doing things as a reference to others. I don't think a deeper char does much for the flavor, just a better impurities filter. It's the toasting that imparts flavors and the ABV at which the oak is infused afaik.

tp (and a disclaimer or two)

I have to wonder what the unwashed will think if they stumble upon that Youtube video. Oh look, a guy burning a stick - how odd.

One of 2 things. A native American Indian, herb purge (using the sacred "medicinal oak"), or, a wannabe 1st time hippie who bought this "shit" behind the supermarket and saw the best way to get high off it on YouTube...and ya know no one lies on the internet LOL.

sltm1 wrote:One of 2 things. A native American Indian, herb purge (using the sacred "medicinal oak"), or, a wannabe 1st time hippie who bought this "shit" behind the supermarket and saw the best way to get high off it on YouTube...and ya know no one lies on the internet LOL.

?
Excuse me, but I think I was (am) more coherent drunk.

What would the roasting time be for very small oak chips, like those sold in brew shops? A vanilla smell was very heavy around the 1 hour mark at 380 degrees.

Bump on toasting the smaller chips?

I just finished a triple batch of pear brandy ala jimbo recipe and found some pear smoker chips at a bbq place. I just spent 6 hours toasting them last night. I did half at 320 for 3 hours looking for the sweet taste and the other half at 380 for 3 hours looking for sweet vanilla. The first batch at 320 doesn't really have much smell, but the one at 380 definitely has a different smell to it. Can't tell if its good or bad, just different sweet aromatics. Does the oak toasting chart apply to other woods especially fruit woods? The bbq place I found has all different kinds of wood chips for a reasonable price and am eyeing apple, cherry & peach chips for future projects.

I spent some time splitting and breaking up the chips so the are all about maybe pencil thick at most and 1" long. I planned on doing a medium to dark char on all them with my propane torch today and do a mixed experiment of white, light toast, medium toast and combo to see what I like best. My brandy came out 58% ABV and I was going to soak a month at that strength, then cut it to drinking strength 45% ABV for another month and then remove the chips. This is how I do my UJSSM and SF brews and like the results.

Did I just waste a day splitting and toasting these chips? I'm not going to put them is my jars yet till I hear back from you guys as this was a once a year/first time experiment and don't want to mess it up. So far it looks and smells amazing, don't want to screw it up trying to polish and smooth it and have to wait another year to try again.

Thanks & Peace,
opihi

If I was dealing with dinky chips I'd just toast at 400 for 2 hours and dump 'em in. Not enough thickness to bother with charring, imo.

tp

Its interesting to see the different ways people age, different woods, toast/char, abv%, just a ton of variables to play with and see what happens!

I age a couple different ways. I tried making my own "barrel" (I wont get into that mess...), but normally I use Mason jars with white oak lids I turn on my lathe or in carboy.s with 1/2"x3/4"x5" sticks of white oak I toast @400°F and then char what I guess would be medium/well or so, even the end grain. I use different amounts for different spirits, depending on the level of oak I think it needs. I also vary abv% depending on desired result, but keep it between 40% and 65%, though I occasionally age as high as 75% (more for experimentation purposes).

My lids are a bit different from Corene's. I have tried several thicknesses of wood, from 1/8" to 1", but have been using 3/4" mostly, with a few 1/2". The main difference, is the thicker portion protrudes through the lid, rather than into the jar. Less chance of breakage from swelling. I also add a wrap or two of Teflon tape around the edge of the oak and onto the sealing surface to prevent excessive seepage.
The thicker lids don't allow as much evaporation. And if you want to slow it even more, applying beeswax to the top of the lid seems to help.

I'm working on lids for lightning jars now, as I have a ton just sitting around. I've had one full of water on its side for about a week to see if it will leak, and nothing yet. I'll post pics once I figure out if the design is sound.

Ya know, the only thing constant on this forum is how we can change how we do things as more understanding takes place.

I've been thinking that some of my older UJ stock may be a little heavy on the oak so I pulled a jug off the shelf that was stilled a month and a half ago for a taste which I have been a bit remiss on doing regularly.
I had a pleasant surprise when I tried the less-oaked product. Plenty of flavor and mouth feel and not so heavy on the oak. Yum!
I just got done pulling the wood out of everything in stock that had been on the shelf more than a month and a half after doing the obligatory tasting.
I've taken a bit of a different turn since the start of this thread in that less may be more. Just thought I'd share my latest on-topic thoughts and findings with my fellow board members.

tp

I have been learning that time off (after) oaking is just as important as the time on it.

I have had several batches coming off lately, that I thought I over oaked at 4 months on (1x1x5). Even had a certain burn (different than heads).
Took a bottle to Jedfest called Generations (feints run).

After a couple weeks, that wood taste started to become more caramel, and the burn dissipated. I think I could have done better at letting it breath, but the oaking doesn't stop until it's off.

Then a couple weeks to month off will finish changing the last of the oak.

That's what makes this fun and yet frustrating.
On one hand, every time we make something it's different simply because we do batches.
On the other hand, every time we make something it's different simply because we do batches.

tp

T-Pee wrote:That's what makes this fun and yet frustrating.
On one hand, every time we make something it's different simply because we do batches.
On the other hand, every time we make something it's different simply because we do batches.

tp

all the way over to your other thread... notable

I got to this late,,and am by no means an expert, but will give mt 2 cents worth anyway.I think it was NChooch that posted the56 sqin / gal figures,anyway, that's what I've been using. I have a sawmill, and plenty of 1x mountain grown white oak, so thats what I use.I have only used charring so far, but plan on toasting some soon.I usually use gallon jars, but have used as small as pints, and have had good results in all. Usually a coupla months are enough . It doesnt last much longer than that.Have done both rum, and UJSSM, both worked well.

I think you'll find that toasting before charring will make big difference in your chosen drink.
Whether it's good or not so much will be up to you but do drop back in and let us know what you think!

tp

I find it interesting this isn't a sticky.

Great thread - great discussion.

Just to add my experience.
Use a 23ltr (6 gal) s/steel keg with 4 toasted dominoes to age 60 - 65% UJ.
Dominoes are 1/2" x 1 1/4" x various - toasted.
The bung is also charred and only stainless steel is used for the wires.
Left it for 15 months so far.
And the taste is lovely. The vanilla flavour comes through very well.
Does tend to back off when broken down to 40% but is still there.

Also trying a French red oak at 60 - 65% but that is some way off yet - over a year to go.

My thoughts on oaking are low and slow.
Seems to work well.

TAF

bearriver wrote:I find it interesting this isn't a sticky.

Appreciate your appreciation.

tp

This is a great thread. I cant wait to start this almost there....

That cinnamon bark has me curious. Im goin to try one with one without. T-Pee have you ever put in any vanilla beans in or does the wood do enough on its own?

Thanks, bship

I've wanted to try vanilla beans but so far I've been happy with the flavors just the wood imparts...especially after a few months in corked glass.

tp