Air cooled condenser. I'll NEVER go back to water cooling!

[Swag]

If you want to control the speed of the fans get one of these:



They're around $20.00 and are nothing more than a glorified light dimmer, but they work. They are generally used to control the blowers in fireplaces. These are made for inductive loads while regular light dimmers are not. I've tried light dimmers on small motors before and they go south in a hurry.

Cheers

[mason jar]

Water always has seemed a pita to me ...

Yep Ga, I think I probably would have tried this idea out even if there wasn't a drought here 'cause I'm
tired of the hassle water creates for me. I know there are ways to make things easier and use less
water (big giant barrel-o-water etc.), but I don't have the space to make those things happen.

If you want to control the speed of the fans get one of these:

I didn't know about those swag, thanks . I found some at my local Home Depot. They are a lot cheaper than
the variacs so I will certainly give them a try if I ever need to slow down the fans, but I doubt I will need to do that.

[aceswired]

See a 24 inch baseboard on walmart.com for 18 bucks pkus 5 shipping. 3/4 inch copper. Real tempted to try it in a hybrid condenser - finned element, step down to 1/2 inch into the worm. I wonder how much it could reduce my circulation needs.

[mason jar]

See a 24 inch baseboard on walmart.com for 18 bucks pkus 5 shipping. 3/4 inch copper. Real tempted to try it in a hybrid condenser - finned element, step down to 1/2 inch into the worm. I wonder how much it could reduce my circulation needs.

aceswired, the only ones I'm seeing on walmart.com are electric baseboard heaters. The heating element I used
was from a STEAM baseboard heater. I bet the electric ones don't have the nice big copper pipe with fins like
the steam ones do. Make sure you are getting something with a copper pipe and fins or it won't work for a
condenser.

[aceswired]

http://www.walmart.com/search/?query=heatrim%20american" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Says 3/4 inch copper. Am I overlooking something?

[mason jar]

http://www.walmart.com/search/?query=heatrim%20american
Says 3/4 inch copper. Am I overlooking something?

Oh sorry aces, I don't know how I missed that.
Yeah, that's what you're looking for. It will work for what you want to do.
Wow, who would have thought Walmart sells plumbing supplies?

[Bagasso]

Since moving into a tiny place and loosing my workshop, I have been toying with the idea of an airstill. Something that I can run on my desk (home office), but man are they expensive.

Well, your condensor is too big for my limited space but at least it proves that it can be done. I'm going to have to see what I can do with a foot of 1/2" tube and a bunch of empty beer cans. Also liking the idea of a PVC shell with the tube surrounded by scrubbies and a few computer fans. Seems like an easier way to get a lot of surface area without cutting out and placing all those fins.

[Swag]

Since moving into a tiny place and loosing my workshop, I have been toying with the idea of an airstill. Something that I can run on my desk (home office), but man are they expensive.

Well, your condensor is too big for my limited space but at least it proves that it can be done. I'm going to have to see what I can do with a foot of 1/2" tube and a bunch of empty beer cans. Also liking the idea of a PVC shell with the tube surrounded by scrubbies and a few computer fans. Seems like an easier way to get a lot of surface area without cutting out and placing all those fins.

There are better ways to get a lot of cooling in a small area than scrubbies and beer cans. You could do 2 one foot sections of radiator finned copper side by side. Tee them at the top and bottom and attach a few fans right on the fins. The whole thing would be about 12" X 6".

[Bagasso]

There are better ways to get a lot of cooling in a small area than scrubbies and beer cans.

Thanks swag but the beer cans are for DIY fins and, it's my theory, that scrubbies might work with less hassle. In the end they all would work on the the same principle, but I can't source radiator finned copper locally so its either DIY or pay through the nose.

[mason jar]

...the beer cans are for DIY fins and, it's my theory, that scrubbies might work with less hassle. In the end they all would work on the the same principle, but I can't source radiator finned copper locally so its either DIY or pay through the nose.

Bagasso, I like to see people try new ideas, especially if they are DIY and low cost (I prolly spent too much
on mine ). I'm wandering if the scrubbies would slow down the airflow too much? The thing with air
condensers in that you need LOTS of air flow. Anyway, I would be very curious to see if your idea works
so I say give it a shot and report back to us. It's fun to make something work when others say it won't

If you ever do want to try the finned pipe thing, then I think you could easily get by with 3 feet. Mine was
5 feet but I think it was way over engineered for the amount of power that my burner can muster. A 3 foot
section of hydronic heating element wouldn't be too expensive (matter of opinion I guess). Maybe try looking
on walmart.com like aceswired did. Just a thought. Anyway if 3 foot is still too long for your work space, how
about making the condenser VERTICAL instead of horizontal. Make a stand for it to set upright on the floor
and then get some pipe to connect too it from your work space. I'm pretty sure that would work, but it defiantly
would be more expensive than your DIY solution.

Keep at it and let us know how yours turns out.

[Bushman]

In Seattle one of the micro distilleries because of height restrictions built an air cooled horizontal still where it rotates. This design reminded me of it but for the life of me I can't find the picture I posted showing the still.

[Bagasso]

I'm wandering if the scrubbies would slow down the airflow too much? The thing with air
condensers in that you need LOTS of air flow.

I was up late playing with online calculators and got some interesting numbers. Of course everything is relative. An airstill is onlo 250 or 300 watts, so the trade off is output for space and portability.

My idea is to do multiple runs in a day, while I'm sitting at my desk.

A 3 foot section of hydronic heating element wouldn't be too expensive (matter of opinion I guess).

I live in central america. Stores don't offer baseboard heaters here. I can't even get copper tubing or fittings locally. There was one small shop but it closed a few years back. That is why I'm kinda limited to using this one foot cutoff for testing.

On a side note, I have my trusted pot and coil in a bucket but a couple months back someone came a knocking early one morning. It was just the guys from anti-malaria but he was accompanied by 2 soldiers. I had left my still set up from the night before and while they just asked a couple questions and moved on, let's just say that I wouldn't mind something that can be hidden in plain sight.

[Brutal]

In Seattle one of the micro distilleries because of height restrictions built an air cooled horizontal still where it rotates. This design reminded me of it but for the life of me I can't find the picture I posted showing the still.

[mason jar]

OK guys, I did another water run so I could measure the amount of power my condenser is knocking down.

This time I put my giant pot over TWO of the burners on my stove. Each burner is supposedly rated
at 9500 BTU (2.8 kW) but I have no way of testing that.

I turned both burners on full and let everything heat up (with the condenser fans OFF) until the
whole condenser was too hot to touch and there was steam pouring out of it. I let it run like this
for a few minutes to let everything stabilize.

Then I turned on the fans and waited a few of minutes for the temperature along the condenser to
stabilize. I didn't measure any temperatures on the condenser but here's how it looked just based on feel:

* The entire finned area of the condenser is 55 inches long.
* The top 18 inches was too hot to touch for very long.
* The next 4 inches was warm.
* Everything after that was almost room temperature (which was 72F at the time).

At this point I started collecting the water for the measurement. I collected for 4 minutes
until my measuring cup was almost full.

I weighed this water and it was 168 grams (yes I subtracted the weight of the cup).

I measured the temperature of the collected water, and it was 78F. That doesn't matter for
the calculation below, but it does show that the condenser is nowhere near it's limit because
the water was almost down to room temp.

So I used the method Edwin Croissant suggested back on page one of this thread to calculate
how many kilowatts of heat the condenser was knocking down (thanks Ed):

kW = (evaporation heat of water) x (water weight in kg) / (collection time in seconds)

= 2260 kJ/kg x 0.168 kg / 240 seconds

= 1.58 kW

So my condenser was knocking down just shy of 1.6 kW. That's the best my burners could do.
Since only about 1/3 of the condenser was too hot to touch and the rest of it was almost
room temperature, I am estimating that it could knock down at least twice that power.
Someday I would like to find a burner that could overwhelm this condenser so I could
find out what it can really do, but for now I'm happy with it since it can take everything
my burners can throw at it.

WOOO HOOO! No more messing with water for me!

[Bushman]

Brutal good find, that's the one I was thinking of designed by the amphoria society.

[shadylane]

There's one thing I don't like about a air-cooled product condenser.
If it's built logically it would look like a car radiator.

Editing my post while HD was posting.

[Hound Dog]

There's one thing I don't like about a air-cooled condenser.
If it's built logically it would look like a car radiator.

Ol' Skool.

[Bagasso]

There's one thing I don't like about a air-cooled product condenser.
If it's built logically it would look like a car radiator.

Well, sometimes one has to work with what is available. It isn't like the OP built the finned tube and it sure doesn't look like something you would want to try reshaping.

[shadylane]

I could remove the core from a new cooper radiator, cut off everything that was soldered with lead.
Build new header tanks and use lead free solder to put it all back together.
But I can't bring myself to go that route.
That's why I like this build, It hides the logic of it's design inside of a pretty box, with high tech fans.

[mason jar]

...If it's built logically it would look like a car radiator.

Interesting idea shady. I hadn't thought of that because I was just making use of what I could
get to make the build easier, like Bagasso said. But you are right though, if it were shaped like a
car radiator it would certainly be more compact. Mine does take up a bit of space.

You can actually buy short pieces of the finned tubing (like 1 or 2 foot sections I think). You could get
a few of those and put them together using copper elbows so that the product path would be sort of
"back and forth" like a car radiator instead of straight through like a liebig . This way you could use
one large fan to blow over the whole thing like with a radiator. Hmmmmm, I might have to like that
idea, but it probably would have cost more money and been a little harder to build. Also you would
have to be careful not to create any flat spots or any angled the wrong way. But if space is a concern,
then you could probably make it work this way, if you're careful.

[mason jar]

...It isn't like the OP built the finned tube...

Believe it or not Bagasso, I was actually thinking seriously about making the finned tube myself.
I was going to cut a bunch of fins out of copper sheet and then drill them and solder them to
a piece of copper pipe. I'm sure it would have worked (maybe even better than the aluminum
fins) but it would have been a massive amount of effort. I'm glad I found the pre-made heating elements.
They made this project much easier.

[shadylane]

Starting with finned copper tubes that are vertical, connect them together with 90*s and tee's
It would look like a radiator and one large electric fan could blow on all of it.
Posting with MJ

[mason jar]

Starting with finned copper tubes that are vertical, connect them together with 90*s and tee's
It would look like a radiator and one large electric fan could blow on all of it.
Posting with MJ

Interesting. That would be a whole lot easier to build than the zig-zag contraption I described, but what
would guarantee that the vapor would split up evenly between the two (or however many) paths?

[shadylane]

Just my thinking. If you zigzag horizontally there will be places were liquid will puddle in the condenser, this is bad.
Having all the finned tubes are vertical and in parallel would be the best way for a compacted air-cooled condenser.
Just like radiators used to be built. My early experiments used a down hill zigzag.
And a single fan with a ugly cardboard shroud. Not shown.

[mason jar]

Just my thinking.... Having all the finned tubes are vertical and in parallel would be
the best way for a compacted air-cooled condenser. Just like radiators used to be built.

And maybe I'm over-thinking it, but it seems like you would want some way to guarantee that a roughly
equal amount of vapor went through all of the tubes, otherwise you might overwhelm one of them.
I don't know.... just a thought.

If you zigzag horizontally there will be places were liquid will puddle in the
condenser, this is bad.

Yes, bad. That would be a problem with the way I was describing it. Not a good idea

...My early experiments used a down hill zigzag. And a single fan with a ugly
cardboard shroud. Not shown.

That looks like it's even longer than mine (overall vapor path). How well did yours work?

[The KYChemist]

And maybe I'm over-thinking it, but it seems like you would want some way to guarantee that a roughly
equal amount of vapor went through all of the tubes, otherwise you might overwhelm one of them.

This was something I drew up real quick. Basically its just a manifold. The angled lines could be steam diverter paths. The tubes, at the bottom, would of course need to be flush with the bottom. Was just a quick thought.

[Bagasso]

And maybe I'm over-thinking it, but it seems like you would want some way to guarantee that a roughly equal amount of vapor went through all of the tubes, otherwise you might overwhelm one of them.
I don't know.... just a thought.

I think that if the fins were shared by all the tubes then these would help spread the heat around. In this case you might want to feed the radiator on one side and collect on the opposite side.

Another thing might be a finned section after the collection point so that any all streams can mix and the temp would average out and still have more tube to cool a bit more.

[shadylane]

Don't know if this will get the ideas across.

[Bagasso]

Don't know if this will get the ideas across.

I think the concern that mason jar has is that in the parallel tubes all the steam will want to flow through the center tube and you will loose the surface area of the outer tubes.

[MichiganCornhusker]

If you were careful with the slope, I think you could get at least 5' or 6' of fin cooled pipe in a box that would hold a standard 20" window fan. I continue to be intrigued by this idea...