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Hi Mars,

With my water and source of ingredients, I haven't needed to adjust this recipe for pH. If you were doing multiple generations it might be a different story, and also it might vary with your water chemistry. I think the wheat bran has some decent buffering capacity.

One thing, though. I've doubled the amount of wheat bran in the recipe and got a better fermentation. Not as neutral as the original, but a very nice lightly flavoured product, and still great for refluxing to produce a light grain alcohol-like product.

MartinCash wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:33 pm With my water and source of ingredients, I haven't needed to adjust this recipe for pH. If you were doing multiple generations it might be a different story, and also it might vary with your water chemistry. I think the wheat bran has some decent buffering capacity.

As to the water chemistry, I don't think it make much of a different in a sugar wash.. I've done wash using water from different areas around me, plus guided other within a 3 hr radius of me to understand how to make a wash within the 3 days, and they all were able to do so..

Yes some ferment with some grains in them, such this one or Rad's all bran, or wheat germ, will have a different Ph activity than just a regular sugar wash.. but the process, additional ingredients, the balancing of those ingredient, will change slightly.. but the overall process will still require attention, to the same level as plain sugar wash..

MartinCash wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:33 pm One thing, though. I've doubled the amount of wheat bran in the recipe and got a better fermentation

You have changed the original recipe, and that's a good thing.. making small changes and monitoring the change is how one improve the outcome for the better..

Mars

Thoughtful reply stillerboy and much appreciated. I did not check pH after the initial 5.2.
I started at 28C (82F) and held it there. I will take your advice on both points in my next batch. Advice like this is priceless!

I'm not a great fan of wheat, so I went the other way and used a fraction of the amount of bran, but put an aquarium pump inside the fermenter to aerate it until the headspace ran out of O2 and left it running to agitate it with the CO2 bubbles until the ferment was nearly finished.

Less than half of a 130g clam shell was used up and the pH was fine right to the end of the ferment.

I've had people tell me they like my narrow heart cut so I have kept some as vodka for visitors, but I'm not a fan so I put most of it through my Bokakob to use for making gin. It makes great base spirit for a variety of gins, so I will be doing it again.

I'm in no hurry to have my wash ready to distill.
I use 4 one gallon jugs and Fleischmann's yeast to ferment .
To each jug I add 2 cups of regular sugar , 1 tablespoon of yeast , and 4 ounces of tomato paste .
I have heating pad that is made for a dog to lay on , and it is usually around 85 F.
I usually see the balloons or air locks no longer active in 7 days or less.
I get around 15% alcohol content using this method.

If I were to buy DADY yeast would I get a higher alcohol content ?
I'm not concerned about the time it takes ,only the % of alcohol.

I don't know that yeast because where I live there are other products but as long as the yeast is able to completely ferment the sugar you will get the same alcohol content. The behavior, the aromatic profile, the ability to produce a clean product, etc. may change a little, but the alcohol will be the same. Just my opinion.

Ive fermented TFFV a few times at higher ABV.... If its the first generation, I found it just takes proportionately longer.... Instead of 4 days, 6 days, etc. However, I would assume this is only accurate until the ABV gets up to the point where the yeast struggle. TFFV was designed to be low ABV and be ready to run fast, with relatively low esters and off flavours. Im unique in that I run it through a Pot still 4 to 5 times, with dilution each time, so the it can have off flavours, but I get them stripped out to almost flavourless when Im done.

That being said, TFFV is by far my favourite vodka, failsafe, go to recipe

Why is this not in Tried and True yet?

To me it's an easier and cleaner take on Deathwish Wheat Germ.

xcaret wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:17 am If I were to buy DADY yeast would I get a higher alcohol content ?
I'm not concerned about the time it takes ,only the % of alcohol.

If you don't add more sugar you won't get more abv by just changing yeast.

That said, there's a good reason why this wash targets a low abv.
Stress free yeast makes for cleaner ferments.

Maybe you should run a batch of this and compare it to your usual brew, see what you prefer.

Has anybody ran this with just a strip & spirit in a pot still? I'm probably gonna try it in my pot and see how it turns out, I was just curious if someone has already done it and their thoughts on whether or not it's worth doing. I'm looking for a somewhat neutral base to try FullySilenced's butterscotch and candy cane recipes over in the nuke thread, but all I've got is the pot. I can add some copper scrub pads for a little passive reflux, but still just a pot. I'm wondering how imposing the wheat bran flavor will be with the candy adjuncts.

I only have a pot still and this is the first recipe I made when I started the hobby. I make it annually and keep it in the freezer and enjoy it throughout the summer. It is pretty far from neutral, so I had to do a few things to tone it down.
I use stale wheat and I do not boil the grains. In fact I pour boiling water over them and allow it to stand for no longer than a minute before straining. This adds to the fermentation time, but its worth it for my tastes. I also add rolled oats up to 15% of the grain bill. It adds lots of body, but also contributes some additional flavour. It is still the least flavoured thing I make (other than my gin bases, but I don't sip them as is).

Double post. My bad

I started another run of this a few of weeks ago.
First ferment for stripping run I doubled the recipe for a 46L ferment as I've upgraded to a keg boiler. It fermented out just under 5 days, then left for a week to clear before running.
The second one I repeated the process, but instead of adding yeast I added the strained trub......
Don't do this it took ages stalled at 1.030 and has taken another week to get down to 1.005.
Follow the recipe and it works very well, stray from it at your own risk.

Trying this out with 500g crushed malted wheat. Because it's what I have lying around.

Pitched onto a yeastcake of kveik i have leftover from an AG bourbon style mash. 4kg sugar.

Will report back in a few days!

tommysb wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:57 am Trying this out with 500g crushed malted wheat. Because it's what I have lying around.

Pitched onto a yeastcake of kveik i have leftover from an AG bourbon style mash. 4kg sugar.

Will report back in a few days!

I did something similar and used oats!
Didn't go fast but worked, nice result IMO.

Going for the Wheat bran today

Teddysad wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:27 pm
For those looking for a fast ferment, a little time spent during the preparation stage pays huge dividends in shortening the time for a ferment.
Here is my routine for a fast Vodka at very low cost with no carbon filtering or added clearing compounds.
......

Do NOT seal for at least 24 hours as a thick foamy cap will form within an hour. I put it under an airlock only after 36 hrs so I can monitor progress.

Ted,
Thanks for your recipe, I have followed it verbatim but...... today (24 hours) I went back to test the SG and cleared a little space in the cap. SG at start was 1.065 and today was around 1.055 so it looks like things were going swimmingly. However, by the time washed my hydrometer and ph meter (4.9) the cap had completely sunk and when I put the lid back on and airlock, no action on the airlock after an hour.

Can you tell me, have I stuffed up by mucking around with the cap or will it just take some time for things to revert to normal?

Temperature is at 30C. The only other note is that I made about 25l wash in a 35l fermenter so there is a bit of headroom.


Edit: Well as one great sage posted sometime ago, "airlock bubbling is not a sign of activity", or words to that effect but I have never had no activity
this early on!

As it happens, I checked again just now, unscrewed the lid and checked everything, screwed it back on and bingo, lots of airlock activity.

I can sleep tonight.

Kind regards

I did my first batch of this and it is 100% as advertised! From SG 1.065 to .991 I yielded 21l at 9.5%. It was super easy to do, and seemed extremely steady and trouble free. I kept the fermenter @25C and I did add some Calcium Carbonate when the PH was dropping to 4.0.... I don't know if that was even necessary!

Thanks Teddysad I love this recipe! Why it isn't in tried and true, I don't know!

... I will start another batch and when this one clears over the weekend, I will strip it!

Question for you guys: I have low wines stripped from this most excellent recipe, and I intend to make a vodka out of it. I need to augment the volume in the boiler but I was wondering whether it might be recommended to use water OR the backset from the batch I stripped today? What do people generally do?

Rrmuf wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:10 am and I intend to make a vodka out of it. I need to augment the volume in the boiler but I was wondering whether it might be recommended to use water OR the backset from the batch I stripped today? What do people generally do?

If making a vodka out of it is meant to mean a spirit run, then to augment it would be wise to wait until you have more low wine of the same recipe.. otherwise, using backset will increase/carry the flavour of the recipe, which in a spirit run for neutral, it is not recommended.. plain water would be best unless you are wanting some flavor, but it would not be best neutral for a gin run..

Mars

StillerBoy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:54 am
If making a vodka out of it is meant to mean a spirit run, then to augment it would be wise to wait until you have more low wine of the same recipe.. otherwise, using backset will increase/carry the flavour of the recipe, which in a spirit run for neutral, it is not recommended.. plain water would be best unless you are wanting some flavor, but it would not be best neutral for a gin run..

Mars

Thanks Mars: It is intended to be a vodka..... and a vehicle to try out a reflux run..... I'll just water it down to <40% per your recommendation. I have Russian friends standing by who will tell me if I ended up with a sipping vodka or a cocktail vodka.

For vodka use I'd use water, since the whole point of vodka is to minimise the flavour. Backset or extra wash is for flavoured spirits.

MartinCash wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:12 pm For vodka use I'd use water, since the whole point of vodka is to minimise the flavour. Backset or extra wash is for flavoured spirits.

Thanks Martin. THAT is what I will do..... I might experiment with the backset for a gin however.

Rrmuf wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:41 pm Thanks Martin. THAT is what I will do..... I might experiment with the backset for a gin however.

I really wouldn't, though. For a gin, or at least for a dry gin, you want the most flavourless neutral you can make. Experiment plenty with whisky, rum, brandy, etc.

Once you've mastered it, by all means experiment. Genever is made with a grain base and aged in oak, for example. But for a gin, I'd suggest also going as clean a neutral as you can make. Also with anything else than clean neutral, your cuts will be difficult, as you should be cutting for botanicals, not for spirit.

MartinCash wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:39 pm

Rrmuf wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:41 pm Thanks Martin. THAT is what I will do..... I might experiment with the backset for a gin however.

I really wouldn't, though. For a gin, or at least for a dry gin, you want the most flavourless neutral you can make. Experiment plenty with whisky, rum, brandy, etc.

Once you've mastered it, by all means experiment. Genever is made with a grain base and aged in oak, for example. But for a gin, I'd suggest also going as clean a neutral as you can make. Also with anything else than clean neutral, your cuts will be difficult, as you should be cutting for botanicals, not for spirit.

Yes, got it. I've got a few Gin batches under my belt now, and as neutral as possible a base is pretty much all I have done with regards to Gin so far and I do get your point about cutting for botanicals and I can see how cuts would be more complicated. My first surprise in making gin was how the different botanicals came through at different cuts. FUN! I had ordered a parrot at the time..... I have yet to use it for fear of smearing, based on the fun I've had with Gin cuts. So, thanks for that consideration!

I have run into a Canadian distillery that produces an interesting, very tasty Gin (not dry) which is actually grape-based and one thing they are clear on is that they don't pretend to start with a completely neutral base. SO, I might try a few small experiments in that direction.... I have enough good tasting Gin to last me a few months anyways, and have plenty of Juniper berries picked and preped to last me until next year!!!!, so I can afford to be disappointed in a batch and pitch it back in for re-distilling. I will be sure to report back here: and you can tell me "I told you so" then

Thanks again. I always appreciate you more experienced members warning me of pitfalls Ive not seen yet.

Rrmuf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:05 am I have run into a Canadian distillery that produces an interesting, very tasty Gin (not dry) which is actually grape-based and one thing they are clear on is that they don't pretend to start with a completely neutral base.

I've made several grape based gins and they were all very nice.

NZChris wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:20 pm

Rrmuf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:05 am I have run into a Canadian distillery that produces an interesting, very tasty Gin (not dry) which is actually grape-based and one thing they are clear on is that they don't pretend to start with a completely neutral base.

I've made several grape based gins and they were all very nice.

Yes, I'm sure. Hence my questioning the need to start with an absolute neutral for making gin, and then suggesting using the Teddy FFV backset for a gin spirit run. Week on,the low-wines @~45% ABV do have a very pleasant 'faint wheaty' aroma.

If you have a recipe using grapes, I might be interested in learning from that down the road.

Ive been using this recipe for a couple years now exclusively. I do it all on a pot still, but I Strip it and then run it mulitple times (3-4) diluted very low with clean water. It takes a little longer then a reflux would overall, but I end up with good yeilds and as neutral a product as I've ever tasted.

I've also used this many times as the base for my Gin. Same process, macerate over night, then in the boiler with botanicals (with an internal element and I've had zero scorching.)

Cant speak highly enough of this recipe

+1 Super recipe!

My TFFV is waaay behind schedule, thank you for your post, my p.h.is around 5.7....have added oyster shell, and upped my temp from 26c to just over 30....I am learning to keep check on all these things slowly...this is my first vodka attempt
I am happy with my whiskey thank to this forum....i donated last night to show my appreciation.....you guys are Mint.....thank you

ismbardbrunel123 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:57 pm My TFFV is waaay behind schedule, thank you for your post, my p.h.is around 5.7....have added oyster shell, and upped my temp from 26c to just over 30....I am learning to keep check on all these things slowly...this is my first vodka attempt
I am happy with my whiskey thank to this forum....i donated last night to show my appreciation.....you guys are Mint.....thank you

This was meant to quote Stillerboy....