Home Distiller

I have been in email contact with Tony Ackland over the past couple of days regarding this (non)issue and the poor impatient responses from a minority of our Yahoo members. Tony is currently on vacation somewhere in Canada, but took the time to send this message to me, which I have forwarded to both my groups and to Dave (UJ). Tony's message follows...

From: Ackland, Tony (RTA) <Tony.Ackland@riotinto.com>
Subject: Homedistiller.org & Me
To: distillers@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, May 30, 2008, 6:52 PM


I thought that it might be time to drop in on this thread and try to clear up a few things regarding the Homedistiller.org site. I'm presently travelling, and can't access the forums (firewall on work PC), but Harry has been good enough to forward me some of the material. I do still receive the daily digest from both distillers & new distillers, but I'm guessing that a lot has happened too in the day or two since i managed to log in and get email.

For those who havent clicked yet - I am Tony Ackland, the author of the content at http://homedistiller.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow .

I first got into distilling over ten years ago now (is it longer?) At that time there was little information availiable, outside of a few texts like the "blueflame" and some dubious books. I was concerned about the amount of mis-information floating around, so decided that as I researched for myself, i would collate the material, to provide the information for others. The original plan was to have a single page, but that rapidly outgrew itself. At the time, hobby stills were primative adaptions of pot stills with some type of top reflux. The newsgroups were just begining, and became a powerful medium by which we could all share our experience, help explain our own specialty areas to others, and chip in to grow the body of knowledge around this hobby. And hasnt it grown. The early changes were from John Stone & Mike Nixon, adapting principles common in industry to the hobby scale. They populised the overhead reflux condensor, taller packed columns, and reflux control. The newsgroups had everyone chipping in around safety, control, aging, recipes, common sense, thermodynamics and the like.

It was then, that Dave (Uncle Jessie) was generous, and offered me both server space, and the use of the homedistiller.org domain name. He was the first to do so, and has been my silent supporter in my mission to provide advice & information for those who want to learn about this hobby we all enjoy.

Although many people since have offered to provide server space & mirror sites, I generally have not taken them up (other the tasteylime mirror), out of aligence to Dave. I know that i get many emails from people thanking me for providing the content, maybe we should send a few to Dave, thanking for his part in it too (he's been the one paying for it). He has not asked anything from me, and was doing this as a fellow distiller.

Most of you will have also noticed that my site really hasn't been active in about the last four years, since i moved to Australia. I havent even run a batch myself in about 3 years. The hobby has moved on a lot since then - Riku's automated controls, the variations in controlling reflux, Jims experience and the like. Cant even start to catalogue the contributions from Harry in synthesising so much information & experience.

One of the challenges in having a web site like that is in keeping it up to date. Thats why i got really exicted when Dave started up the forums part of it along with the Wiki version, where others could start contributing to the material, and adding the corrections and improvements as they came to light. Harrys recent work around the library of material he provides, and the new links bit are all great. I think the more of material like this that can be provided, and through different sources / opinions etc, the better.

Now for the fun bits .....

1) when we had our "new" uncle jessie turn up a month or so in the newsgroups, i wondered if the use of the same alias would lead to some problems and confusion. And yes it has.

2) this group at times is a little too quick to fly off the handle, and to use the recent phrase, "raise a shit storm". (recall the Bokakob episode?) The constant need to put out some of those flames was one of the original reasons why i quit as the moderator here & appreciated Harry taking it on (and why i suspect he's recently shared the fun out)

3) I appreciate the three-way conflict I've given myself between retaining the copyright to the site material, but not being active in the hobby lately, and a need to keep it up to date. At times I've wondered if it would be best to walk away from the site, and pass it to someone/or collective who would carry it on, but keep it to my aims - keep others safe as they start off, spread the message that this hobby isnt morally wrong/going to send you blind/etc but should be legalised with sensible guidelines (as in my homeland New Zealand), and above all, provide all the material free of charge - so as to not hinder in anyway educating those who want to learn. I welcome any suggestions. Harry has been offering some great advice and options for me.

4) I will continue to use his server & domain name as long as Dave will allow me. That is his decision & choice, and I will respect whatever he decides, without arguement. That is entirely between him & me, and no one else needs to get involved, nor make it a public issue. To date, I still believe our relationship is strong & unchanged. I've had nothing from him that would suggest otherwise. If this does change, lets deal with it then, but i dont see the need to do anything at the present. I still have a copy of the files - its not like the material will get lost. That domain name is his, not mine nor yours.

5) For those who have been quick to complain when the server /link goes down for a day or so, I please ask for latitude, and let him manage his affairs as he wishes. From the emails i get, its as though some of you expect 24/7 access and response - sometimes we do all need to take a weekend off or holiday away from the internet. (soapbox time - this also applies to mobile phones - it is OK to turn those off when you get home in the evening or over weekends) If you really needed that constant access to the site, you should have downloaded a copy (not like its changing on a daily basis!). The mirror site is always there if you need it.

6) To those who have got confused over this "uncle jessie" name/alias double use, and inadvertantly slagged Dave in the process, how about a simple applogy to him, and try to take some heat out of this situation. He's been a fantastic supporter of this hobby advancing. Have you ?

It is nice to see that there is such passion about the site, but please, how about focusing that energy in a constructive manner. In the newsgroups, why is it that we still only see replies to questions from the same few authorities - how about a few other of you lurkers chipping in and giving a hand to answer, share experience, observations etc. Dont just sit back and wait for Harry to have to do all the work - you all have something value-adding to share - you dont need to be a world authority to do so.

I've probably preached enough for now, and no doubt stirred the pot, and being a day or so late is probably not helping, but just want to ask for some calm.

regards

Tony Ackland

=====================================================================

Perhaps we can all get back to chillin' & stillin' now.

way i see it is both places is after same thang just goin by diferent paths. reads like some look down on folks cause they cook a certain way an they aint got no clue on kimical compound an how they react under certain conditions but some ole boys just aint that smart an aint anever gona be that smart so
it best not worry bout thangs you cant change. heck it intrestin to understand why

yall read in that article what they was usein c4 on them outfits they was findin back in 70s. didnt see where they was also carryin automatic weapons an shootin first. they went in the woods 5 at a time he wont workin just by himself an they would bird dog you. its calmed down alot but it aint ended

so im tole

Thanks for that, Harry. And though Tony and I haven't spoken much in the last few years, of course we're still on good terms and have never had any conflict between us. He made the original site and the information is fantastic, a wonderful resource. I've been glad to host it for all these years without pop-up ads and so on.

yall read in that article what they was usein c4 on them outfits they was findin back in 70s. didnt see where they was also carryin automatic weapons an shootin first. they went in the woods 5 at a time he wont workin just by himself an they would bird dog you. its calmed down alot but it aint ended

Yo goose, you should make a search on ARC.

Or so am tole.

Uncle Jesse wrote:I've been glad to host it for all these years without pop-up ads and so on.

Pop up add's...I can just see UJ throwing those in to advertise his legal distillery.....

just joking I know you wouldnt even think about it!

I bet stilldrinking.com would love to get there cheap, dirty hands on advertising here with the traffic flow his place gets.....

M.D.S.

p.s. The server this is on now must have a wack load of memory, i dont think the pages have ever come up this fast!

ModernDayShiner wrote:p.s. The server this is on now must have a wack load of memory, i dont think the pages have ever come up this fast!

Not the biggest and baddest, but I doubled the RAM and gave it a better processor at the same time. It seem to work really well.

Copyright (c) 1992-2008 The FreeBSD Project.
Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994
The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation.
FreeBSD 7.0-STABLE #3: Wed Apr 30 22:51:45 PDT 2008
root@homedistiller.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0
CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1500+ (1344.29-MHz 686-class CPU)
Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x680 Stepping = 0
Features=0x383f9ff<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,MMX,FXSR,SSE>
AMD Features=0xc0400800<SYSCALL,MMX+,3DNow!+,3DNow!>
real memory = 536870912 (512 MB)
avail memory = 511463424 (487 MB)

<snip>

ad0: 238475MB <Seagate ST3250623A 3.04> at ata0-master UDMA100
Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad0s1a

Shit!! The only thing I understood in that was 'GENERIC'. Is it a new recipe for neutral spirit. Generic of course.

blanik

Curiosity got the best of me and I had to go to the Yahoo forum and see for myself. Some of those guys just sound bitter about something that may or may not have happened here on this forum. One of the posts seemed to be from a moderator or an admin and rather than stifle the BS he seemed to me to laud the "New and Improved" or "makeshift" designs that one on that forum can pick and choose to use with little or no regard to what is safe or practical in a home situation, IMO. I hope no one who doesn't know any better gets harmed in any way from those types of "innovations". We novices here at least have some folks here who care enough to scold us when we need it and steer us in the proven ways of distilling. We are fortunate, those of us who are smart enough to see what we have here, to have such a site as this. I for one will not be frequenting the yeahoo site.

trthskr4 wrote:Curiosity got the best of me and I had to go to the Yahoo forum and see for myself. Some of those guys just sound bitter about something that may or may not have happened here on this forum. One of the posts seemed to be from a moderator or an admin and rather than stifle the BS he seemed to me to laud the "New and Improved" or "makeshift" designs that one on that forum can pick and choose to use with little or no regard to what is safe or practical in a home situation, IMO. I hope no one who doesn't know any better gets harmed in any way from those types of "innovations". We novices here at least have some folks here who care enough to scold us when we need it and steer us in the proven ways of distilling. We are fortunate, those of us who are smart enough to see what we have here, to have such a site as this. I for one will not be frequenting the yeahoo site.

Yeh, let it die. I can't recall ever offending anybody in the home distilling world so if folks are over there grousing and holding a grudge, they're doing it on their own and I honestly have no clue why. It really doesn't bother me one way or the other. I wouldn't even know there were people grousing over there if I hadn't gotten one negative email out of a couple dozen which were quite friendly and just asking when homedistiller was coming back.

I'm not the type to get into a disagreement, get upset, take my marbles and go home. If they want to use the resources here, they can do it any time and don't have to register or contribute content. Information should be free and I try to live by that credo.

I'm sure yahoo has some great distillers and information and I know a lot of our users are members who frequently contribute over there. And I'm all for anyone who advances the hobby.

Gotta say the response at Yahoo struck me as a bizarre, massive over-reaction, conspiracy theory about evil corporate takeovers. (UJ taking over himself! Go figure )

And Riku's comments about the systematic hunting down and suppression of innovation at HD forums, and that the slanted plate design is still regarded here on the HD forum as "cutting edge technology", are just nonsense.

Let's be honest, Riku does have a vested interest in making out that Bokabob slanted plate design is so yesterday, and we are old fuddie-duddies, as he is trying to sell copies of his new book about his new developments in still design.

It's a pity he felt the need to make those comments, because I respect the work he does in home distilling, including his innovations in still design.

Other than the 100% PVC still column and the "amazing still", I can't recall any "innovation" we've stifled. Not sure where that accusation originates but it seems pretty far out there.

If you've got a better idea, by all means share it. Don't get your feathers ruffled if someone questions it or flatly disagrees, though.

After the sordid and infamous history of this hobby I think you should expect alot of very scrutinous feedback of any "cutting edge innovations" or variations of any kind from the known good and sound ways of doing things. If you can't take the scrutiny and explain the reasons why it's better to do it your way then maybe it's above your understanding to begin with. Profiteering is the reason for all the negative light this craft receives now. Just look at the thread about 156 Dead in India.

This forum is a meeting place, learning center and a huge repository or library for those who enjoy this hobby. It's well ran, well laid out and obviously well maintained hence the thread name and the fact that that's the first time in several months I've heard of a problem with the site. It's a web site so who cares what the physical address is of the server it's on or who owns that server or what they do for a living. In the case of Pioneer Spirits we would all love to get our hands on a bottle or 3 and rather than push sales on us UJ has done everything to explain why most of us may never have the pleasure to experience his wares. UJ wishes to "let it die" and I think that shows who is the bigger person, I just had to make one more post on it. Sorry. You get into this forum and after a while it's familiar and so are the people here. It feels like good coworkers or almost friends (I don't use that word loosly that's why "almost") and any attacks on that are met with resistance. So, viva la Homedistiller.org.

Dunno why all you grownups are getting involved in a mines bigger than yours comp.
Can understand UJ defending himself, but why anyone else needs an opinion on the matter stumps me

punkin wrote:Dunno why all you grownups are getting involved in a mines bigger than yours comp.
Can understand UJ defending himself, but why anyone else needs an opinion on the matter stumps me

Would you caracterize that as an opinion or a statement Punkin
Cheers.

tracker0945 wrote:

punkin wrote:Dunno why all you grownups are getting involved in a mines bigger than yours comp.
Can understand UJ defending himself, but why anyone else needs an opinion on the matter stumps me

Would you caracterize that as an opinion or a statement Punkin
Cheers.

More a classification than a generalization

Uncle Jesse wrote:Other than the 100% PVC still column and the "amazing still", I can't recall any "innovation" we've stifled. Not sure where that accusation originates but it seems pretty far out there.

If you've got a better idea, by all means share it. Don't get your feathers ruffled if someone questions it or flatly disagrees, though.

As in the use of teflon ? Some hijacking corporate monger censored my teflon thread, my feathers were all ruffled.

manu de hanoi wrote:

Uncle Jesse wrote:Other than the 100% PVC still column and the "amazing still", I can't recall any "innovation" we've stifled. Not sure where that accusation originates but it seems pretty far out there.

If you've got a better idea, by all means share it. Don't get your feathers ruffled if someone questions it or flatly disagrees, though.

As in the use of teflon ? Some hijacking corporate monger censored my teflon thread, my feathers were all ruffled.

tefflon ewwwwwwwwww

been to folks houses where you gota take shoes off to go inside
an been to places where you cant go barefooted.


this is uncle jesse house an we all just a vistin

goose eye wrote:been to folks houses where you gota take shoes off to go inside
an been to places where you cant go barefooted.


this is uncle jesse house an we all just a vistin

It's like saying that because London hosts the olympic games therefore the olympic games "are belong" to London.

manu de hanoi wrote:

goose eye wrote:been to folks houses where you gota take shoes off to go inside
an been to places where you cant go barefooted.


this is uncle jesse house an we all just a vistin

It's like saying that because London hosts the olympic games therefore the olympic games "are belong" to London.

No, it is NOT like that at all. These forums DO BELONG to UJ. Just a simple fact you have to accept. Dont care what you really "think" about it, that IS the fact.

H.

manu de hanoi wrote:

Uncle Jesse wrote:Other than the 100% PVC still column and the "amazing still", I can't recall any "innovation" we've stifled. Not sure where that accusation originates but it seems pretty far out there.

If you've got a better idea, by all means share it. Don't get your feathers ruffled if someone questions it or flatly disagrees, though.

As in the use of teflon ? Some hijacking corporate monger censored my teflon thread, my feathers were all ruffled.

If you have a such a problem manu, then why are you here?? There is no one here keeping you here. Many are tired of your whining, and "great innovation process" which you yourself claimed outputs LOADS OF CRAP. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6749

Sorry you have such soft downy feathers that get ruffled so easily. However, certain other peoples skin is getting rubbed rather thin by the way you are behaving.

H.

1) ??? Are you ok Husker ? I was joking ! Why so much agressivity when no one offended you ???
2) tired of my whinning ??? are you talkin about me me or "them" (the collective yahoo evil forces trying to undermine Home Distiller)? This is a whining thread, so let's whine !
3) Which behavior of mine is the prob, can you be more specific ? Why on earth has it got to do with http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6749 ?

OK.

I guess I'm the "hijacking corporate monger" who was susposed to get offended by yer comment. Sorry, I'm not offended. Yer gonna have to try ALOT HARDER. Gettin' offended by an amateur comment like that would be as stupid as gettin' offended by a Mod tellin' ya that yer openly breakin' the rules.

(Hint-hint.)

manu de hanoi wrote:tired of my whinning ??? are you talkin about me me or "them" (the collective yahoo evil forces trying to undermine Home Distiller)?

Manu, you were one of the ring leaders "whining" on Yahoo (there were only 4 or 5). You were the the person that also posting a poison post on the Wired article, and when ASKED to clarify and apologize when it became apparent your "claim" was baseless, you have simply refused, and continued forging forward as if this forums owe the world a free reign. ALSO, you were one of the few that made up conspiracy cabal which was also a regular member here, and should have KNOWN that UJ was Dave and IS the owner of pioneer. That you missed the post listing the HD was going down for a maintenance mode, is easily excusable, but the shit storm which you were DIRECTLY part of, is hardly excusable.

Then coming here and continuing to take stabs at both the site, AND it's owner, is getting old very quickly. This view is shared by others on the site, who have directly PM'd me about your recent behaviors. I have stayed out of it, but like I said, my skin can only be rubbed for so long myself, before it thins out, and I react to it.

I will not be following up with this line of discussion, but am going to let it drop. It is not productive for this hobby. I would recommend that you, manu, also do the same.

H.

@holymackerel As I said, I joked you were supposed to laugh! I am not the guy who sent that email to Jesse calling him a "corporate monger", but I found that hysteria funny and by reusing that expression I was tryin to create a comical effect commonly known as irony

@Husker I EDITED the poison post on wired 3 days ago , then 2 days ago further clarified in an answer to a blanik comment also on the wired page, tell me what is left of the shit storm?
About the teflon stab I believe it is a very good answer to Jesse's post, Jessie says he dont stiffle innovation and welcomes dissenting comments, so I allow myself to bring that topic back to light with a dissenting comment. Please let the man answer for himself.

Ok.

A gentle hint isn't workin', so I'll speak plainly.

Yer bein' an ass. Stop it now. UJ set rules for this board that he provides free to all. He pays for it and works on it free. You get to use it free yet ya continue to give grief about the rules. The other Mods and I don't make the rules, we are suspose to enforce 'em.

I'm sorry that ya don't like one of the rules, but it's just too bad. You don't pay for the site or do all the free work on it so you don't get to make the rules.

If ya don't like it get mad, pick up yer toys, and run home cryin'.

I feel like you need a "time out" to calm down and leave folks alone. A three day ban might help to clear the air... so be it.

jeez guys, take a deep breath.

From how I read it, manu really was joking about the teflon thread. As for comments on yahoo and wired...sticks and stones guys. I'm not the type who has to have everyone love him. I've had death threats, subpoenas from the FBI and angry calls from every long distance company you can name in my 24+ years of hosting BBS's and web sites. There's nothing new under the sun.

I planned on homedistiller being down for about 2 hours. I mistakenly messed up the apache config so folks saw the company web site. As I said in mail to Harry, you can search the forums and count the number of times I've mentioned our distillery on one hand. Some people who obviously know nothing about my political leanings figured this was a corporate move. Yeh guys, I'm sure my company would look really great if I took away homedistiller.org and forced every hit to our web site instead. That'd really boost sales...of products we don't yet have ready for market. And it really would build good will in the community I help support...right? Think it through, it doesn't take a mentat to figure out it was a simple mistake.

I still don't have the other server back 100%. It caused core dumps on me and I had to reinstall unix from scratch and swap out a lot of hardware to figure it out. Then I had to reconfigure the network so that my unix host isn't my router for our LAN at home. during that time I didn't have internet access for 2 or 3 days at home so I couldn't SSH to work to fix homedistiller. Otherwise I would have fixed it ASAP because I know quite a few folks rely on these forums for community and information.

My daughter also had her 4th birthday last week so I didn't work on computer stuff at all - family first.

I don't care if you talk about plastics but as was said in that teflon thread, we want real information on what plastics do to your spirits. The Chemist posted some real info about U.S. approved plastic containers leeching plasticizers into spirits. These plasticizers are very bad for you so we try to discourage the use of any plastics. There are simply too many unknowns. The TTB and FDA gave those containers the green light and yet they don't stand up to high proof spirits.

Maybe we should have some actual tests conducted. Take some 192 and some 100 in jars and soak various plastics in them then have the spirits tested. That might end some of this merry-go-round of people complaining that we're "stifling info" or "stuck in the past" when really we're just trying to promote safety. we want to make sure anyone who starts distilling has the info up front about how to keep themselves, their friends and families out of harms way.

As far as the rules:

2. Be polite and courteous. Remember that nobody is perfect and nobody knows everything. We've all got our strengths and limitations which is why we share information with each other in the first place. Remember that we're all different and nothing is going to change that fact.

I didn't write rules #8 and #9. They were worded and given to me by some of our more regular users and since they make sense and go along with the spirit of the place, they were added.

Let's all work on rule #2. I can't believe this has gotten so far out of hand. Don't take it personally. I have no idea why people got so worked up by it and really, I don't care. You can't please all the people all the time and even trying to please everyone is sheer folly.

If I didn't carry the entire expense and admin duties on my own shoulders I'd feel worse about the downtime. But as I said in my post, if homedistiller is down, GO OUT AND GET SOME SUN. It's not good to rely on your monitor to give you a tan. I'll bring the site back up as soon as I possibly can.