Wood Ageing Woes

[goinbroke2]

Molasses might be alright in rum, but it would change the flavour of whisky wouldn't it?

[Barney Fife]

It would be terrible in a whiskey! in fact, it is almost terrible in run, also. I've tried it in rum, but while it may seem okay for a couple weeks, once aged, it ruins the rum and makes it bitter. Caramel, on the other hand, starts out mellow, and gets better with time. Molasses' only place is in the wash.

[blanikdog]

Oooooops, my mistake. I thought we were discussing Rum. I like the molasses taste in rum but, I think in Whisky it would be disgusting.

blanik

[blanikdog]

I just received a parcel of toasted oak samples from punkin and am amazed how uniform the toasting is. I'll be doing it his way from now on. I also wonder if my toasting old wine barrels had any effect on the flavours I was getting. Perhaps I was burning the wine that was in the wood? It may be that I'll have to find a cooper somewhere and buy their scraps. I was certainly over 'toasting' my oak. It was more like charcoal.

After reading this thread I also believe that I was using far too much oak. This wouldn't have helped. I'll use punkins oak in my next run - providing it ever gets warm enough to venture in the shed - of UJSM to compare the difference.

Thanks punkin all the samples proved bloody interesting. First time I've tasted spirits other than my own and I was impressed with yours and it also showed me that mine is also OK. It's great to taste others results to give an indication of just how your own product is.

Your Thai Terror and mine are almost identical except that yours was more 'limey'. I didn't have limes so I used lemons plus some dried Kaffir lime leaves.

I'llreturnthebottlesshortlyblanik.

[HookLine]

Oooooops, my mistake. I thought we were discussing Rum.

Me too. Sorry.

MustLearnToReadTheDamnPostProperlyHook

[BW Redneck]

Molasses tends to have a few solids in it, doesn't it? Won't that make it cloud up a little? Someone said that their rum always turns cloudy when they add brown sugar to it.

I wouldn't know. I've never done rum. I have an overabundance of nearly free grain on my hands, so I'm set for whiskey.

[trthskr4]

Show off!

[punkin]

I just received a parcel of toasted oak samples from punkin and am amazed how uniform the toasting is. I'll be doing it his way from now on. I also wonder if my toasting old wine barrels had any effect on the flavours I was getting. Perhaps I was burning the wine that was in the wood? It may be that I'll have to find a cooper somewhere and buy their scraps. I was certainly over 'toasting' my oak. It was more like charcoal.

After reading this thread I also believe that I was using far too much oak. This wouldn't have helped. I'll use punkins oak in my next run - providing it ever gets warm enough to venture in the shed - of UJSM to compare the difference.

Thanks punkin all the samples proved bloody interesting. First time I've tasted spirits other than my own and I was impressed with yours and it also showed me that mine is also OK. It's great to taste others results to give an indication of just how your own product is.

Your Thai Terror and mine are almost identical except that yours was more 'limey'. I didn't have limes so I used lemons plus some dried Kaffir lime leaves.

I'llreturnthebottlesshortlyblanik.

You're welcome Blanik, hope the small samples were up to your standards, it's a bit scary when you've only been practising for a while

Look forward to recieving the bottles back..





AssumingThey'reFullPunkin

[trthskr4]

The women around here used to do something similar to that Punkin, they called it the community bowl. Somebody makes a one-dish meal and takes it to someone on their list each week. Then that person washes the bowl and makes another meal in it and passes it to another person on the list and each time they mark that persons name off that list. Sometimes they get 4 or 5 dishes going and have that many lists. I wish some of us could do something similar, but it might not be a good idea to have our addresses floating around everywhere attached to untaxed spirits. That would be awesome if it were possible though.

[goinbroke2]

Until it was my turn..everybody would be saying "oh great! some of that crap from Canada"!

[blanikdog]

You're welcome Blanik, hope the small samples were up to your standards, it's a bit scary when you've only been practising for a while Look forward to recieving the bottles back..AssumingThey'reFullPunkin

Of course they will be returned in the same condition as received.

As I said, I was impressed and yes, it is scary but certainly worth while. You gave me one hell of a confidence boost. We both make good spirits, or both have lousy taste. I go for the former.


blanik

[punkin]

So all the niceties over and done with mate, and ignoring any cut problems or mash idiosynchricies...

The campfire thing, what the sample was all about?
Did you find the oaking (although overoaked) to your taste, or was the campfire thing still there for ya?

I know you still have to experiment with your own liquor and my sticks, and your own liquor and your own toast of my sticks, but just from the short sample of UJSM and Malt...would ya say that you reckon your sticks were the problem before?

Or you just don't go on the oaked spirits

[Hack]

Many thanks to the perpetrators of this thread. My hooch has also been suffering from a doused campfire taste largely due to aging it on what amounts to oak charcoal. I've done some studying and have toasted up a new batch of oak. As soon as the latest batch is ready I'll be trying it out.

[blanikdog]

The campfire thing, what the sample was all about?
Did you find the oaking (although overoaked) to your taste, or was the campfire thing still there for ya?

No, yours tasted like proper toasted oak beverage. Did I say I thought it was a little over-oaked? I just had another sip and certainly don't think that now.

I know you still have to experiment with your own liquor and my sticks, and your own liquor and your own toast of my sticks, but just from the short sample of UJSM and Malt...would ya say that you reckon your sticks were the problem before?

I have no doubt that I had over toasted (read burnt) my oak and it was responsible for the campfire effect. In addition I was over oaking which only made the matter worse. I'm still looking at your UJSM/Malt and I love the colour and I reckon the stick of oak makes a really nice touch. I'll have another sip just to be sure.

Or you just don't go on the oaked spirits

I was a little put of toasted oak, but now I'm all for it again. My intention was to try it on a few mates but decided bugger them, I want it all!!

stillsippingblanik

[blanikdog]

... suffering from a doused campfire taste largely due to aging it on what amounts to oak charcoal.

I was doing exactly the same thing, Hack.

blanik

[Dnderhead]

it is suggested by a "professional" site that I belong to ( cant as witch one) that you use toasted wood not chard . chard is only a legal thing
much better flavor comes from toasted and low prof alcohol .

[HookLine]

Gonna have to try that, Dunder. Only used charred so far.

[blanikdog]

... much better flavor comes from toasted and low prof alcohol .

When you say low proof dunder, do you mean 40abv? I always oaked at 70-80 abv.

blanik

[Dnderhead]

I dont quite remember, Ill look it up. but the lower proof the more vanillas etc come from the wood the higher proof more tannins
I thank best was about 50% /100 proof also those that barrel "age" if you put in barrel at lower proof , water will evaporate, if you
put in at high proof ,alcohol will evaporate.

[Dnderhead]

Had to do a lot of searching but came up with 55% -60% abv is best on toasted or light chard .regardless what is best the law dictates what proof and what type of barrels can be used, it also states that if aging rum chairing can removes flavors.

[punkin]

The campfire thing, what the sample was all about?
Did you find the oaking (although overoaked) to your taste, or was the campfire thing still there for ya?

No, yours tasted like proper toasted oak beverage. Did I say I thought it was a little over-oaked? I just had another sip and certainly don't think that now.

I know you still have to experiment with your own liquor and my sticks, and your own liquor and your own toast of my sticks, but just from the short sample of UJSM and Malt...would ya say that you reckon your sticks were the problem before?

I have no doubt that I had over toasted (read burnt) my oak and it was responsible for the campfire effect. In addition I was over oaking which only made the matter worse. I'm still looking at your UJSM/Malt and I love the colour and I reckon the stick of oak makes a really nice touch. I'll have another sip just to be sure.

Or you just don't go on the oaked spirits

I was a little put of toasted oak, but now I'm all for it again. My intention was to try it on a few mates but decided bugger them, I want it all!!

stillsippingblanik

Very good Blanik, i'm happy i could aid you in your search for toasting goodness.
That corn and malt was certainly overoaked in my opinion, it came from my backofthecupboardstoresforposterity as it was the nicest of the ujsm i had on hand and the new batch isn't ready yet. Next time you get a sample it'll be oaked allgrain.

[trthskr4]

I sure am jealous of you 2 swapping this goodness and throwing off the curve.

[StabbyJoe]

Good thing about NZ is that you don't have to hide it from Johnny Law which makes it easier to find people who do what you do... only one I've found so far is a friend's dad... runs a reflux and uses this site... Thinking about doing an order swap - he can tell me something he wants from my pot still and I'll tell him if I want a nice neutral to play with. A good setup is he's actually interested, but I wish even more that there was someone down the road who was experienced with things like the wood aging of flavored spirits etc.

Maybe we can find a way to mention the general area we're in and can PM each other and see if trade and critique is doable?
Just an idea to spread what you two have got going ^^,

[Dnderhead]

You git into this "experimenting" and you will have all the neutrals you want from rerunning "mistakes" (ones that did not turn out like you wanted)
but I git enough calls for "apple pie"to cover it so nothing goes to waist

[StabbyJoe]

lol funny I didn't think of that... I did think of running stuff like 4x through a pot still, but also thought I mostly couldn't be stuffed
But the mistakes thing is a good idea I'm surprised i didn't have

[Centimeter]

Update.

I did an experiment to determine if I was using bad wood or if I was adding too much. I made two 6”x3/4”x3/4” sticks out of the oak board I used before and two more sticks out of a used wine barrel stave. I used a MAP torch to just turn the outside black, not nearly what I was doing before which was waiting for it to scale up. I placed two sticks of each in two separate gallons of UJSM at 63%abv. It’s been two weeks and it’s colored up nice but… it’s starting to pick up that god damn camp fire flavor again!

The flavor is much less pronounced but still glares brightly in the after taste. My thought is that maybe I’m judging it too early in the aging process.

From your experiences, does it start to taste like camp fire early in the aging and then get better?

What do you guys think my next step should be to get this damn aging issue solved?

Edit- I just tasted a jug that I put aside with just virgin oak and it is by far the closest thing I have to a whisky. It’s got the whisky punch but not the nice mapley after taste. I think I’ll start fiddling around with virgin oak and just the slightest amount of toasted oak for my next step. Should’ve listened to Tater!

[HookLine]

I'll be trying Dunder's suggestion about toasting instead of charring. I suspect you can only toast in an oven, not with a flame.

[Dnderhead]

A cording to the other site the flavor comes from the toasting . the char only mellows (removes harsh flavors) witch can be done with charcoal
so they recommend a toasted barrel. if it is harsh. just filter threw charcoal befor/after ( not activated charcoal ) they are saying that a chard barrel is
a wast. that that the charcoal is good one time , a toasted barrel can be used over many times, Theo the flavor will diminish. In some light flavored
drink, charcoal will remove to much flavor (as rum) so if you have a good flavor, carcoal will remove some of it.

[punkin]

Update.




What do you guys think my next step should be to get this damn aging issue solved?

Personally, i think you should try getting a bunch of sticks, wrap em in alfoil, and stick em in your oven for two-two and a half hours at 200 C. Get em smoking pretty good and a nice chocolate colour (should fill the room with smoke, so do it while she's out). Then try some of that in your whiskey for a month to six weeks.

Works for me, so it should work for you. It's interesting to see the different colours and flavours the same sticks will put into your spirits depending on the grain you've used in the ferment.
Staright corn UJSM gives a plain bourbon colour and a stack of vannilla in six weeks or so, so much so that i don't bother using any vannilla extract when i tried that. Corn and Malt Barley UJSM gives a beautiful reddish/mahogony colour different to the straight corn and takes at least an extra month on the sticks to develop properly, not as much vannilla, but still a mouth warming sweetness. etcetcetc

[blanikdog]

I can vouch for punkins method of toasting. I tried everything - well, almost everything - and was obviously burning the shit out of the oak rather than toasting it, and using far too much. The samples that I got from him were completely different, nice and even and not burnt. I haven't had the chance to try it yet as it's to cold in the shed, but I can't wait for it to warm up. And, having tried punkins product I'm even more excited about warm weather.

blanik