Toasted Corn?

[Avalir]

Just a quick short update. Overshot my sampling at the 3 month mark by a few days so I don't want to comment too much on the specific flavors, but it's coming along very nicely. Definitely the definition of a full bodied whiskey. I did notice there's still a noticable unrefined grain taste and aroma, not that I consider that to be a negative - but I'd estimate that should clear up around the 5-6 month mark and taste more like a proper finished bourbon. I'm very satisfied with the results so far though.

[Avalir]

Okay, so 6 month update time.
The grain/taily notes have finally been assimilated into the spirit and are no longer identifiable.
But what you've all been waiting for - the flavor. It's fantastic, albeit not what I was anticipating, though I'm not quite sure what I had expected anymore. Compared to when it was younger, it's become not obvious that there were toasted grains in the bill. However, the complexity of the flavor has increased substantially and I'm sad to say that I don't know a better way to describe it. It's less sweet than with non-toasted corn, and it's got some quasi spicy notes that may make you question if there's a touch of rye in the bill, which there isn't (my bill is toasted corn, toasted oats, toasted wheat, and a blend of pale and vienna malt). The "spice" I don't even like calling spice, it's more spice-like, but not to be confused with any sort of spiciness from the oak, it's also decently subtle. Aside from that, it's not too far off from the flavor profile it would have with non-toasted grains.
I'm very satisfied with it, because I've felt the non-toasted variant came fairly close to what I'd say is too sweet for my preference and I've always contemplated adding some rye for something a little extra (though I've never gone through with it because I just can't get my mouth to appreciate rye the same way my mind does in theory), and this gave it that extra something I've been looking for without actually being that rye flavor/spice that my taster doesn't appreciate - much softer and very easy for my palette to enjoy.
Overall, I'm very satisfied with the results so far and can't wait to see how it is at 9 months; I'll also be saving at least a gallon to continue to 18-24+ months.
I would definitely recommend toasting corn if you've been searching for something a little different or more complex without the need to rework your entire recipe.

I'll check back in in a few more months.
Cheers! Happy sipping!

[Avalir]

So at about 7 months, I noticed a coffee flavor coming on decently strong - this I'm going to accredit to the medium plus cubes I got since medium was out of stock (I noticed this too in the scotch I was aging on uncharred cubes). Anyways, I ended up charring 5 medium french oak cubes I had laying around to add to each jug of bourbon since the flavor was lacking in my humble opinion - don't get me wrong, it's a great solid bourbon, I just felt it could use a little more oak flavor and sweetness plus the touch of spice it should bring should give it some extra character. Figured I'd mention this before it's time to announce my results in a few more weeks. Just 4-5 more weeks and I'll pull just shy of 2 gallons for drinking and giving as gifts; still planning to leave a gallon to keep aging another year or so.

[JDTheBeeker]

Fantastic read. I finished a nice fruity ester filled whisky and now wanted to try a bolder, buttery, savory bourbon. I think some heavy and light toasted corn is what I want to try. Maybe split up some cracked corn. 300*F for an hour, 350* for another 30 minutes and then 400* for another 30-60 min. I’m going to be doing three 5 gallon batches. Probably 7lb corn and 1 lb oats per 5 gallon batch. Just mix it all up pull 3lb out of the oven after first baking temp, adjust temp and pull 3lb at the end of the second baking temp and finish the final 2lb. Take 3 gallons of boiling water per 8lb grain bill, pour over, insulate and leave over night. Adjust grain temp with water to 158-162*F and pitch amylase. Come back in the evening and top off any remaining water needed to fill the bucket and check gravity. Adjust with sugar accordingly if needed to a gravity of 1.080. I’m excited to see where this will go.

[Bradster68]

Just my opinion, but omit the sugar,add some barleymalt or rye. And no need for a gravity that high. 1.065ish is plenty. The yeast will thank you. My 8 month wheat bourbon is spectacular (no sugar).
Very Carmel tasting. My best so far. I do make sugar heads so i can stay out of the real stuff.

[Avalir]

If you're after bold flavor, I'd also encourage no added sugar. Can't say I've had noticable fruity esters since several years back when I would still add sugar to push my yield, but I'm sure it could be achieved by your choice of yeast too. Let me know how it goes because I'm very curious how a darker toast in the corn would taste. Won't have the time for another batch for a while, but I was thinking next time I'd take a portion of the corn to toast darker. If it helps you plan your brew, my plan for darker toasts was to use my corn post milling/cracking; sift out the flour/powder because I'm sure it'll burn fast; then just toast 2-3lbs at a time on a cookie sheet to get a more even toast throughout. Be sure to check on it fairly often since I'd anticipate the finer you mill it will create a very narrow window between done and burnt. In toasting any grains, I find my nose to be the best judge of where it is - just go until you smell aromas you desire/find appealing, then maybe a few more minutes to get the whole batch up to about that level.

[Avalir]

Came here to give another update and had to make that last comment, but I digress.

9 months has arrived, so I'm going to be a little bit of a tease. Left one gallon to continue aging for at least another year (I'll probably save some to continue aging until kids are grown enough for me to have time to come back - we'll just call it a jug of inspiration I'll tuck away inside my rig for storage to encourage my return and stir up more ideas). But I pulled about two gallons off the oak, put it in the deep freezer for about a day, then filtered through a couple layers of coffee filters to remove as much dissolved char as possible (I just do this to give it clarity with prolonged storage - I've had people give me iffy looks in the past when they see a small cloud of char at the bottom of the bottle and I find it less painful to remove it than to offer explanation to someone who doesn't understand the process or care to). I did this almost two weeks ago now and have taken a small taste every few days, and of course the flavor is still undergoing some change as it settles, so I'm going to hold off on a detailed flavor review for a few more weeks (hence why I said I was going to be a tease); rest assured though that a final review is coming soon - I'll also give an update after another year and when I return to this hobby and taste that bottle of inspiration that I'm sure could easily be sitting on oak a decade or more.
And since most of this two gallons will be given away as gifts, I picked up some corked bottles, wine bottle labels to customize, and some wax to seal them - this should give my bourbon-style fancy corn likker (as it will read on the label) the high end presentation that I think it deserves; I'll try to attach a photo if I can figure it out and keep the file size small enough.

Looking forward to updating you all again in a few weeks!

[Avalir]

9 month aging update:
So I've been sipping and thinking and critiquing this bourbon 2 months after removing from the oak and I've dun sipped half a pint of this exquisite, if I do say so myself, bourbon; also mind that this is barrel strength and I dun sipped half a pint so I trust myself to give an honest opinion.
I'll remind this sat on 30 charred medium plus cubes to 7/8 gallon of distillate for 7 months before I added an additional 5 charred medium french oak cubes for the next 2 months.
I think it's fair to include what I believe to be the most critical and honest feedback I received from a taster who is predominantly a single malt scotch drinker (one of the ones who drinks in that $150+ per bottle price range) is that it was too oaky and a little too spicy.
I will say I agree with the slightly too spicy remark in that I think the spice from the french oak is presently too intense. Not sure if that might soften up with more time/oxidation, but presently my palate says it's not too much higher than I'd like it to be and it's still a very pleasurable drink in it's present state. In terms of oakiness, I can objectively see why he says this, but making it to my taste, I hit the nail on the head for how much oak I wanted featured in the flavor profile (let me stop myself before I kiss my own butt too hard now) so I'd call that a success.
That out of the way, let's move on to flavor... please excuse me while I pour myself su more to sip (the last segment took some time to type).....
...... .. I've now dun sipped and assessed and firstly: this is a hearty whiskey. 125 proof (or was when I began aging). Not sure how else to describe what I'm tasting. Either it's because I'm drunk (which I gladly admit I am) or I think I may have tasted the difference with my minimalistic corn roasting in an aged whiskey. Excuse the use of metaphors, but imagine the sweetness of a bourbon made from non-roasted/toasted corn; now imagine that sugary sweetness became more caramelized; however, the flavor I'm getting that I'm attributing to the corn is somewhere between that sweet corn flavor and roasted nuts--so picture this and taste it in your mind, now caramelize it and that's kinda what I'm looking at here. I would say it's definitely a win for me. In the future, I'd say I'll probably leave half the corn untoasted because I miss that sweet corn flavor, but half toasted because I'm loving what it brings - I'm also thinking toasting about 10% of the toasted corn portion a bit darker for some added intrigue... I believe this concludes my subjective findings/thoughts on toasted corn in it's contribution to flavor post aging [9 months on charred oak].

Feel free to read on for more description non-corn related if you'll excuse my next sip.. god bless these live reviews.
........
.. and to release the kraken..
.. and I'm back and closer to 3/4 of a pint sipped.
So the first thing to hit me is that french oak spice, I'm thinking in the future to dial back my usage to no more than 3 cubes per gallon to have the spice where I want it. But from there it's delightful butterscotch/carmel tones along with that toasted corn flavor I mentioned earlier. When I ordered cubes, medium was on back order so I got medium plus since they were available- I like them, but think it took the flavor too far over where I wanted it when paired with the all toasted corn: I think I'll be working on finding a good medium:medium plus ratio in the future (imaging it'll land around 30:70 - 55:45 ratio).
That quasi-nutty flavor I'm getting from the corn is also making me want to recive the brown rice experiment I once had - it brought so much decadent nutty flavor for the table and also an abundance of mouthfeel that put oats to shame; I think this would blend phenomenally with the toasted corn.
And another sip, my friends. Cheers.
... ahh..
This has been the longest I've ever aged. I feel like I've just acquired wisdom in the art of maturing and it feels good. I have a hunch this would elevate so much in 15-18 months (and I'm sure even more from there *no shit*).

I'm now sleepy and don't know where I was in that rant, but you can bet your ass whatever I said, I meant it. Goodnight and I'll see if I can add a photo of how it looked after I bottled it.

[Avalir]

I think I figured out the photo attachment

Hope I attached the photo right. I thought it looked good.

[Avalir]

My non-inebriated notes on flavor are: overall, it had a robust and satisfying profile; french oak spice is the first note to hit the tongue, followed immediately by vanilla, but oak comes on quickly and changes the vanilla to more of a caramel; from here the wood spice begins to fade and begins to reveal mild toasted nut and butterscotch notes; mouthfeel is silky and smooth throughout in tasting and swallowing - a dangerously drinkable bourbon if I do say so myself.

Edit (after a little more sippin'): pairs great with cigars, pairs not so well with chips ahoys.

[Tōtōchtin]

I was curious if anyone has used toasted corn flour. I can get a bag of toasted white corn for just a few dollars more for 25 kg. I plan on buying the white corn not toasted with a 5 kg bag of toasted to compare. Just curious on other people attempts.
Tōtō