Easy flange

[Nightforce]

Fester,

Nice work!
Is this project still going?

I was thinking of this very thing if I'd had the casting equipment. I'd like to suggest selling some blanks for those, like me who are cheap, but have access to machining tools.

[TDunc]

Dont leave a newbie hanging......... I sat on the edge of my seat reading this thread then it just stopped......... any progress on this, I have a ss pony keg im going to use as a boiler and this looked like it would solve a world of problems

[Fester]

Naw, I dropped it. I built a few for me and showed you guys how I did it. Then I lost interest in it. My one great discovery is that all 2" copper tubing/pipe has the same OD (Outside Diameter). 2 and 1/8 inches. So only one model was needed. From there you can "nipple" up or down to any size copper tubing, pipe or fitting that you want to use for your column. I built 4 altogether and each was an improvement on the one before it.
I checked my Chinese supplier and feel sure that he can produce them in pure copper for about 6 USD each plus shipping and customs in quantities of no less than 1,000 pieces (plus or minus 2% of quantity is standard). It would take about 6-8 months from commitment to receiving the product. Note that this would be a VERY small "swan" order for this factory. Also note that at $6 manufacturing cost that will translate into about $14 per unit cost after shipping to USA, freight forwarding, customs, then trucking to a USA warehouse after clearing customs and all the "grease" applied for a swan (initial) order – read: die setup/testing/material certification/pass fail quality control. (Lower price after the swan order because the custom die setup is saved and is ready to use again). Then each piece would need to be boxed and shipped to the person that ordered it and all the other paperwork involved in transacting business. The minimum investment for the 1,000-piece swan order would be close to $20,000. There is no doubt that someone could make some bucks with this if so inclined. (Have you bought a 2” copper fitting lately?) Over time, a fella could easily double their money but only if there is a market for a thousand of these puppies. Is there a market? I guess you know now how I've made my money over the last couple of decades. I've moved a lot of product around the world.
I will be in China again in about 5 or 6 months from now. The Philippines even sooner (another source of quality copper products at low prices). If someone wants to partner with me on this I'll happy to explore it with you. But I don't want to make these myself as they are too labor and fuel intensive for my small setup. I have one on my pot/stripping still now and I swear it is the best and easiest connection to a sankey keg possible. I use a Teflon gasket from StPats for 2 bucks and it worked like a charm after sanding off the ridge from one side to fit the flat of the sankey keg. I have several more of these flanges lying around that I built but they are too precious to sell because of the work that I put into them.


Fester

[HookLine]

My one great discovery is that all 2" copper tubing/pipe has the same OD (Outside Diameter). 2 and 1/8 inches.

Don't think so. I can get at least two different OD in 2" copper. The fittings are not interchangeable.

[CountryHam]

Of those two different copper pipe sizes you have available, one may be "pipe" and the other "tubing". Steel and aluminum are the same way. When I'm working with steel, i have to designate whether I want pipe or tube. Pipe runs on a nominal size. They call it 2", but its really 2.125" OD. Tubing runs on outside diameter. When they say 2 inch tubing, they mean the OD is exactly 2". The words get used a lot interchangeably, and that causes confusion to both engineers and fabricators who are trying to get on the same line with a customer. LOL.

The K, L, M, and DWV designations on copper pipe is similar to schedule sizes on steel pipe such as Sch 10, 40, 80, 120. If i remember correctly, it all went back to the 1930's where all pipe sizes were .0625" walled, and that led to some pressure failure issues when you got into bigger pipe sizes. It was going to be outrageously expensive to modify and make different fittings for all different size pipes, so they stuck with one size fittings and made the walls thicker towards the center. People still needed certain size OD pieces, so they went with the designation of tubing. A length of 1/2 inch tubing is not compatible with 1/2 inch pipe fittings. You have to move up to 5/8" tubing to fit correctly with 1/2 inch pipe. Just my 2 cents.

[Fester]

I figured that anything outside of United States would be a problem.

I measured 2" K, L and M and all were 2 and 1/8" OD. It solved some issues for me by making my flanges to fit the OD and not worry about the different ID sizes. This is another example of why copper is a bit strange. "Pipe" is usually measured by its ID. Not copper. Really thin-wall steel would never be called "pipe". Not copper.
Confused yet? I think in reality "Copper Pipe" is a misnomer and should really be called "Copper Tubing" but by convention the names have become interchangeable.

[olddog]

I would suggest that the original easy flange be formed at the end of the tube, and if you want to use the ring to build up the thickness it should be soldered on top of the formed flange, instead of using my original method of building up the thickness of the flange with solder. If you just solder the ring to the pipe as you suggest, it will have very little strength, as solder will join copper well, but a solder joint has no integral stength, and if using a tall or large column it may not support it.

OD

[ct1870]

The original easy flange works great. Have 2 of them. Just thought i would share this wih a 4 gage wire which is around 3/16 in thick. The solder goes from top to bottom if you use flux and put the solder to it. I have not tried it with a 6 foot column. I just use it with my 22 in barney column.

[blanikdog]

Bloody hell, I remember that advice being given when I did metalwork at school when I was thirteen back in 1952. I wish I'd remembered it when I was 'soldering' my lyne arm.

blanik

[newerbrewer]

Where can I guy find copper wire so thick? 4 Guage? I can't seem to source any.

[ct1870]

I bought mine a the local Ace Hardware. Can't recall the cost but around a dollar a foot.

[LWTCS]

Ask for solid copper "ground" or "grounding" wire.

[ct1870]

Yes! forgot to mention. It is used for grounding wire around here. It is a little harder to find than 6 gage but I think lowes and Home Depot carry them both. I have 3 Home Depots and 3 Lowes within 20 miles and they all carry different copper fittings and supplies. So one may have it and the other will not.

[newerbrewer]

All of the copper ground wire here in Canuckistan is braided. Will have to keep calling around and see if I can get lucky.

[olddog]

Use a piece of 1/4" tubing, and then flaten after soldering.

[newerbrewer]

You know... I was thinking of this. Although I was planning on hammering it out prior to soldering. I'll give it a go, take some pics and get back to you. Anyone else have any experience using 1/4" copper tubing? Thanks for the reply by the way, it was just a thought until you mentioned it, now its a plan. Cheers,

Brew

[olddog]

You could try either way, its just that it could be more difficult to make the circle and keep it flat, also the tubing could be flattened at an angle.

[pumpman]

Allright here is a new twist on this topic. I took my 2" pipe to a mufler shop and had them flang it just a little bit so the diamiter was good. It is not the perfect angle but it seemed to hold on the keg ok. Then I turned the pipe over and cut a piece of 2" pipe 1/4" long and put it inside the flange then filled it up with solder and ground flat. Took pics with my phone but my baby girl knocked it into a sink full of water so that was that. Have not been able to try it yet but when I do I'll let yall know.

[kiwistiller]

that sounds pretty good mate. hope we can see pics at some point.

[Kiwi-lembic]

Here is an outside the square approch if it helps anyone
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 27&t=15931

[kent.golding]

I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but what you want is a 2-in T/C x 2-in male or female NPT SS "gender bender". It's a stock item at St. Pats, for example, and can probably be had from KLG Stainless (but I couldnt find it on their web site). St. Pats wants $23 USD for female, $30 USD for male. Solder a 2-in male NPT adapter onto your column, screw it into this adapter then clamp it onto your Sanke keg, all with off the shelf parts.

St. Pats uses frames on their site so you'll have to navigate a bit: http://www.stpats.com/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Click on "Sanitary valves and fittings" > "Pipe thread adapters" > and then scroll down, it's about half way down the page...

Hope this helps...

harlan.

[CopperJimmi]

An easy alternative is to tig weld (or get someone to weld it for you) a stainless triclover ferule to your copper column (will post a pic if someone can tell me how to do that) for those in OZ a great supplier is Midway Metals, they have an office in all states, have their catalogue online and are easy to deal with, 2" Triclover clamp $10.59, 2" Triclover ferrule $10.30 +gst + freight, I use a silicone seal from them that has a lip on the outside edge that really hepls locate your column on a std keg just cut the "0" ring section on that side of with a sharp razor blade.

Cheers.

I love Mashman's idea and want to use it in my upcoming column. Does anyone an idea about how much a welder might charge in OZ to weld the SS ferrule to the copper pipe??

[TheMechwarrior]

$60 per hour plus GST mate.
If you can find better than that all good and well. Expect to pay around that vicinity though.

[CopperJimmi]

Thanks mate, how long would it take them? 15minutes, or an hour or more? I have no idea about welding.

For the Melbournians out there I've found another good clamp and furrule supplier in addition to midway metals, http://www.geordi.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow They've got prices on the website, and take small orders for cash.

[therealraycharles]

Thanks mate, how long would it take them? 15minutes, or an hour or more? I have no idea about welding.

You will have to just ask. How long a job takes, and how long it "takes" are two different things. For example, it is common for contractors to bill a minimum amount, or more for the first hour, or always round to the nearest hour, or up to the next.

You just have to go find someone and ask them what they would charge.

[CopperJimmi]

Thought I'd follow up earlier post, as it all ended up being way too easy, none of the playing around with copper wire and solder moulds;
So I went to Geordie Steels (earlier posted), they were fantastic, I picked up a tri-clamp, silicon seal, and 2"ferrule for $20 cash. Incidently they told me they couldn't weld stainless to copper, that silver solder would work.

The 2" ferrule was the same OD as the 2" copper pipe I made the column out of, so I picked up a copper sweat joint ($10 at Reece plumbing) and plumbing soldered the two into it. I was worried about the solder not sticking to the stainless, but it wasn't really a problem, it sealed the gap up fine. Gives strong joint that fits well with the keg. Leak tested with water and no probs.

AU$30 to attach column to keg.

[squidd]

Could you post some close up pics of the 4" ones ?

Thanks,
squidd

[Samohon]

Found some copper rod here in the UK myles, but I guess the brass rod done the trick...

Heres the Link for future reference... (their very cheap as well..)

Nice easy flange, looks strong as well...

[Mr.Spooky]

pffffffffftttttt,,, , that looks better than any easy flange ive ever done.. good work!
spooky

[olddog]

I use 1/4" tubing, you can hammer the angle for the clamp easy.


OD