Steam rig build

[fiery creations]

Thanks for the replies. I’m asking because I’ve never ran one and don’t know how it typically goes. Is the manometer water getting blasted with steam and heating up to (near) boiling? If it’s staying cool I’d imagine it’s fairly safe because little or none is going to vaporize and go back.


This question could severely influence the difficulty of putting this together in a couple hours. The ID and OD of my glass tube is almost identical to the ferrule. I could tig this copper sleeve over it to the ferrule and they would mate up pretty well. But the silicone would likely have a hair of it touching the water somewhere in there.

[Yummyrum]

Don’t do it .
you need to have something squishy between the metal and the glass .

Boro glass is not tempered glass and it will shatter with ease if there is any direct force on it .

[fiery creations]

Don’t do it .
you need to have something squishy between the metal and the glass .

Boro glass is not tempered glass and it will shatter with ease if there is any direct force on it .

Damn. This isn’t going well. Can’t figure out how to attach it.

To make it worse, my welder immediately burned through my copper steam wand on the first out of five welds.

He wanted to fill it with number 15 braising Rod, but I told him to wait because I don’t think it’s safe? I read online it contains zinc.

[Salt Must Flow]

Don’t do it .
you need to have something squishy between the metal and the glass .

Boro glass is not tempered glass and it will shatter with ease if there is any direct force on it .

Damn. This isn’t going well. Can’t figure out how to attach it.

To make it worse, my welder immediately burned through my copper steam wand on the first out of five welds.

He wanted to fill it with number 15 braising Rod, but I told him to wait because I don’t think it’s safe? I read online it contains zinc.

Shop around for copper adapters that are the right size. For instance sweat/solder on one end and female thread on the other end. Hopefully you can find an adapter with the female threaded portion that's slightly larger diameter than the glass. That would allow you to have a decent amount of silicone to fill the gap around the glass.

[fiery creations]

Don’t do it .
you need to have something squishy between the metal and the glass .

Boro glass is not tempered glass and it will shatter with ease if there is any direct force on it .

Damn. This isn’t going well. Can’t figure out how to attach it.

To make it worse, my welder immediately burned through my copper steam wand on the first out of five welds.

He wanted to fill it with number 15 braising Rod, but I told him to wait because I don’t think it’s safe? I read online it contains zinc.

Shop around for copper adapters that are the right size. For instance sweat/solder on one end and female thread on the other end. Hopefully you can find an adapter with the female threaded portion that's slightly larger diameter than the glass. That would allow you to have a decent amount of silicone to fill the gap around the glass.

Thanks for the tip. That’ll work for the four ferrule but not the steam wand. I drilled a hole through a 2” stainless cap and have the copper steam wand fitted through it where it needs to be welded.


Guess I better get to squeezing my two week old ferment because this clearly won’t be done in time.

I guess my only option to fix the hole he created is to try and solder on a copper sleeve over it. Maybe that’ll give him more material to work with for that cap portion.

[Yummyrum]

Solder has incredible strength . Why not just solder the wand pipe to the cap and sure sweat a sleeve over the hole . Probably put a sleeve on either side of the cap as well .

[fiery creations]

Solder has incredible strength . Why not just solder the wand pipe to the cap and sure sweat a sleeve over the hole . Probably put half a sleeve on either side if the cap as well .

Never done that. From what I read for stainless to copper I need silver solder and special flux? Is it a lot harder or different than regular copper soldering?

[Yummyrum]

Solder has incredible strength . Why not just solder the wand pipe to the cap and sure sweat a sleeve over the hole . Probably put half a sleeve on either side if the cap as well .

Never done that. From what I read for stainless to copper I need silver solder and special flux? Is it a lot harder or different than regular copper soldering?

Yes and No . Yes you need to have the copper and the stainless shiny clean and use a liquid acid flux that contains Zinc Chloride and HCl .

Look at the joint . You have a a long copper pipe that is going to suck all the heat out and a poor heat conducting ring of stainless steel . So you want to be pumping the heat into the copper pipe and most of that heat will be sucked up and dissipated to the air . The remaining heat will travel to the joint and heat the Stainless slowly bringing it up to temp . When the flux on the stainless started to crackle , the joint is almost ready to apply the solder .

But , if you pump the heat into the Stainless first , the stainless will be several hundred degrees hotter than it needs to be (cooking the flux and the stainless) while the copper is still stone cold .This is where most folk run into problems soldering small SS ferrules and the likes to large copper pipes .

[fiery creations]

On the home stretch. Spent 45 minutes at HD looking for a way to put the tube in. Unfortunately the OD is right in between sizes. I’m thinking of wrapping it in PTFE tape to pad and fill the gap and then using food grade high temp epoxy to hopefully set it in. But I’m worried the torque on it from the weight of the down tube may break it.

(Tube is slid way down the bottom pipe, it will be taller)

[fiery creations]

Up and doing the cleaning run. Everything works with no leaks, although I need to figure out a better manometer connection solution at some point.

Glad I have 220v elements. Both 110s only came to 2700w and was barely pushing steam. Even the single 4500w element seems like it wouldn’t be enough to heat up on grain effectively. It took a long time to get my thumper water to 180F

[Tōtōchtin]

How does that run compare with the thumper calculator? One thing on cleaning runs with vinegar I read here it causes things around your still to rust, if I remember that correctly.
T.

[fiery creations]

How does that run compare with the thumper calculator? One thing on cleaning runs with vinegar I read here it causes things around your still to rust, if I remember that correctly.
T.

Roughly the same. The pot time is aligned. The thumper temp didn't raise as fast as the calc said. I may be using the calculator incorrectly though. I only ran it for 30 minutes so I didn't get much data to go on. But the calc said 32 mins to heat up thumper. At 30 I was only at 180F. My manometer water barely rose up the glass, but I may have put too much in.

I also have all four of my steam wand 3/4" fittings wide open. Crushing them without screwing up the joint is harder than I thought and I don't want to collapse it so I may order some silicon tips.

I want to try stripping a small amount of mash, maybe 5-10 gallons but for some reason I'm nervous about doing an actual run where I can't see into the thumper to watch I'm guessing 12 gallons of steam would be more than enough to safely strip 5-10 gallons without running it dry, and it sounds like the worst that would happen is I may burn out my element. If I'm reading the calc right as "pot vapor" being the amount of steam needed, it says just under 7 gal.

[Tōtōchtin]

There is so much info here there's no need for guessing. Look at people with the same equipment and follow their threads. I'm not a believer in calculators, we as people add too many variables. But they are good guidelines. I ran the reflux condenser calc. last night and I learned about my water temps, hoping it is wrong on run times.
T.
As far as your manifold you should be able to hammer on those puppies. Your vice grips can do most of the job if you don't have a vice. If a solder joint breaks just heat it up again. This is probably the best part of the still to play with.Nobody can see it no matter how much you molest it. It it breaks it is contained.

[shadylane]

As far as the Mano and safety. Do I 100% need to keep the high temp epoxy out of the vapor path? Idk if I got different ferrule from TB but there’s no way I can do it the way he did. If I weld it straight on the expect might have a TINY bit on the edges of the Mano water.


I wouldn’t think this matters since it’s water in the Mano tube and not going into the thumper?

My 2 cents worth.
If the Manometer and plumbing is designed right and there's no vapor to plastic contact.
The rules against "plastic" doesn't apply.

[fiery creations]

As far as the Mano and safety. Do I 100% need to keep the high temp epoxy out of the vapor path? Idk if I got different ferrule from TB but there’s no way I can do it the way he did. If I weld it straight on the expect might have a TINY bit on the edges of the Mano water.


I wouldn’t think this matters since it’s water in the Mano tube and not going into the thumper?

My 2 cents worth.
If the Mano and plumbing is designed right and there's no vapor to plastic contact.
The rules against "plastic" doesn't apply.

Thanks. After doing a water test run and a cleaning run I came to the same conclusion. The water didn’t get more than lukewarm. I feel plenty safe using my food grade adhesive that far out of the vapor path.


I just need to find a more sturdy way to keep it together down the line.



Attempting my first strip now. Started with the top where there isn’t much actual grain or slop. My steam bubbles ideally don’t rise to the surface and pop right? Is that a sign of my wand tip exit points being too large?

[shadylane]

Just guessing.
Ya need a section of copper tubing between the boiler and the top of the manometer.
This will cool the vapor and the passive reflux will make sure no liquid from the plastic in the manometer returning to the boiler.

[shadylane]

The way your Mano is plumbed, it will slowly fill with liquid.

[fiery creations]

The way your Mano is plumbed, it will slowly fill with liquid.

It’s plumbed just like twisted bricks I believe? I haven’t ran it long but it doesn’t appear to be filling. I’ll have to check my marks in an hour or two. I sure hope that’s not the case…..

[fiery creations]

After trying 14 gal of thicker mash it looks like I need more than a 45" manometer because it's raising to the top...unless I have a stoppage.


If I did the calculations right it would take an impractically high overfilled manometer to cause and overpressure situation. From what I can tell, most kegs are rated to 90 to 100PSI. This makes me wonder why people say a 5 PSI PRV about the highest you want to go.


A 10 foot manometer would still be less than 5 PSI. I guess I can extend my mano as high as I want without worry. One thing I'm not understanding is the amount you fill it up. It seems reasonable that adding 10x the amount of water would increase the pressure to move it. But from the calculators and equations it looks like the amount of water you start with is irrelevant? Is it do to an equal and opposite force of the extra water pushing down?

[fiery creations]

And I'm shelving this whole thing. I have no idea what the hell just happened but I thought it blew.


Assuming my element just blew out. Topped off boiler, heat on, and a loud popped that shook the whole boiler with what sounded like an electrical hum. I need new underwear before I go back to squeezing grain....

[Salt Must Flow]

If I did the calculations right it would take an impractically high overfilled manometer to cause and overpressure situation. From what I can tell, most kegs are rated to 90 to 100PSI. This makes me wonder why people say a 5 PSI PRV about the highest you want to go.

Kegs have a recommended operating pressure, but their actual burst pressure is supposedly 300 psi.

[fiery creations]

If I did the calculations right it would take an impractically high overfilled manometer to cause and overpressure situation. From what I can tell, most kegs are rated to 90 to 100PSI. This makes me wonder why people say a 5 PSI PRV about the highest you want to go.

Kegs have a recommended pressure limit, but their actual burst pressure is supposedly 300 psi.

Good to know. Sounds like an actual explosion would take some pretty gross negligence.


Whatever just happened doesn't seem to be related to anything on the steam build. I don't know if there was a power surge or what, but the breaker in my controller flipped and now my element doesn’t work.


What the hell would cause it to blow with plenty of water on it

[Tōtōchtin]

The higher pressure will cause higher temperature. More pain and a higher volume being released.
Tōtō

[Salt Must Flow]

If I did the calculations right it would take an impractically high overfilled manometer to cause and overpressure situation. From what I can tell, most kegs are rated to 90 to 100PSI. This makes me wonder why people say a 5 PSI PRV about the highest you want to go.

Kegs have a recommended pressure limit, but their actual burst pressure is supposedly 300 psi.

Whatever just happened doesn't seem to be related to anything on the steam build. I don't know if there was a power surge or what, but the breaker in my controller flipped and now my element doesn’t work.


What the hell would cause it to blow with plenty of water on it

All I can think to do is to check your wire connections and inspect the element thoroughly. I recently had an element melt and apparently it was an internal failure and nothing anyone could have done to prevent it. Even though my crimps/connectors weren't done to proper spec, the failure was within the element. I don't know whether a similar failure would trip a GFCI or a breaker though.

[fiery creations]

If I did the calculations right it would take an impractically high overfilled manometer to cause and overpressure situation. From what I can tell, most kegs are rated to 90 to 100PSI. This makes me wonder why people say a 5 PSI PRV about the highest you want to go.

Kegs have a recommended pressure limit, but their actual burst pressure is supposedly 300 psi.

Whatever just happened doesn't seem to be related to anything on the steam build. I don't know if there was a power surge or what, but the breaker in my controller flipped and now my element doesn’t work.


What the hell would cause it to blow with plenty of water on it

All I can think to do is to check your wire connections and inspect the element thoroughly. I recently had an element melt and apparently it was an internal failure and nothing anyone could have done to prevent it. Even though my crimps/connectors weren't done to proper spec, the failure was within the element. I don't know whether a similar failure would trip a GFCI or a breaker though.


03.jpg

Dude it literally exploded a hole in the element itself!! What!!! No wonder it was so dramatic. Not good timing during the first runs of a steam rig. Holly hell!!

[shadylane]

Dude it literally exploded a hole in the element itself!! What!!! No wonder it was so dramatic. Not good timing during the first runs of a steam rig. Holly hell!!

That's a significant amount of calcium build up on the element.
But it shouldn't have led to the element failing.
Looks like one of those what the fuck happened reasons.
Was the heater made out of Inconel or did it have only zinc plating?

[fiery creations]

Dude it literally exploded a hole in the element itself!! What!!! No wonder it was so dramatic. Not good timing during the first runs of a steam rig. Holly hell!!

That's a significant amount of calcium build up on the element.
But it shouldn't have led to the element failing.
Looks like one of those what the fuck happened reasons.
Was the heater made out of Inconel or did it have only zinc plating?

The element was shiny clean when I put it in. It all wiped off pretty easy when I took it out.

The product description just says stainless steel. I about had an MI... If you look closely, it doesn't look like it just burned through or cracked. Metal is bent outwards from internally.


ETA- Interesting discovery. I purchased two 4500w elements. While taking it apart it's clearly stamped 5.5kw... So I'm assuming the chart Yummy made for me and all of my data has been off. And since I was at the upper end of pushing the element thinking it was only 4500w I had to have been above the rating? OR should that allow me to put even more amps into it?

[Salt Must Flow]

I don't know exactly what element you had, but I've been using Dernord elements for years and only had one issue These are the ones I've been using.

I was kind of a scum bag when one of my elements melted. I ordered another one, swapped it in the box and returned it as 'failed first time using it'. Didn't cost me a dime to replace it. It was a scum bag move, but it shouldn't have melted.

[fiery creations]

Since I have to swap one out anyway I may grab those. They look like they have extra surface area to reduce scorch. Who knows, maybe it’ll be enough to not even need steam.

[Salt Must Flow]

Since I have to swap one out anyway I may grab those. They look like they have extra surface area to reduce scorch. Who knows, maybe it’ll be enough to not even need steam.

The element I listed that I've been using is an Ultra Low Watt Density Fold Back element. Even those can scorch at relatively high power. I've added a 2nd element to my boiler and a 2nd controller to reduce power to each element (say 50%) to reduce the potential for scorching. Steam is said to be super safe in the way of eliminating scorching.