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Well it seems that Covid might have done a number on my sense of smell. What I detected as being a subtle hint of butyric acid was so strong that when I cooked up a small amount, my wife had to leave the house and my eldest two came inside to ask why the house smelled of vomit. I could detect an acidic prickle in my nose, like when boiling vinegar, which got stronger as I heated up my starter and I recognised the odour of butyric acid, but not strongly enough to cause me any discomfort. I think this batch is going on the compost, and I'll try again when I've finished my wort chiller.

Circling back to report that I now have 5g of delicious HBB sleeping on oak, and about 3/4g of white for top ups if required.

Looking good Expat. Have you aged your HBB in the past? How long do you “let it sleep” for in that 5G bourbon hotel of yours?

Expat wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:22 am PXL_20210518_021658805_copy_3084x2809_copy_800x729.jpg

Circling back to report that I now have 5g of delicious HBB sleeping on oak, and about 3/4g of white for top ups if required.

You're making me thirsty Brother, and it's not even 8 am.

Stonecutter wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 6:46 am Looking good Expat. Have you aged your HBB in the past? How long do you “let it sleep” for in that 5G bourbon hotel of yours?

Yes indeed, I did a smaller test batch of HBB and oaked in on some barrel dominos. Delicious. So I figured why not go all in and fill the barrel. Should be 12-18 months for it to get perfect... though i'll likely have to have a dram here and there to check

Well super excited got my first successful AG pretty much completed. Just clearing now and then striping runs. Have 30 gal fermented out started out at 1060 finished at 1000. I did a version of this with high temp enzymes and found that to work best. My 30g has a lacto infection but excited to see how this comes off the still.

Expat wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:05 pm

Stonecutter wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 6:46 am Looking good Expat. Have you aged your HBB in the past? How long do you “let it sleep” for in that 5G bourbon hotel of yours?

Yes indeed, I did a smaller test batch of HBB and oaked in on some barrel dominos. Delicious. So I figured why not go all in and fill the barrel. Should be 12-18 months for it to get perfect... though i'll likely have to have a dram here and there to check

I think you need to experiment with the aging of the drink - and everything will be great!

Timothy_W wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:40 am

Expat wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:05 pm

Stonecutter wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 6:46 am Looking good Expat. Have you aged your HBB in the past? How long do you “let it sleep” for in that 5G bourbon hotel of yours?

Yes indeed, I did a smaller test batch of HBB and oaked in on some barrel dominos. Delicious. So I figured why not go all in and fill the barrel. Should be 12-18 months for it to get perfect... though i'll likely have to have a dram here and there to check

I think you need to experiment with the aging of the drink - and everything will be great!

Heh, not exactly my first trip. Experimentation not required.

After filling my 5gal barrel with some great HBB, i had exactly one 25gal batch worth of ingredients left. In all my previous batches, I used US-05 American Ale yeast, this time I wanted to try DADY distillers yeast to see the difference.

I followed my normal large batch protocol, but pitched the yeast at 92 degrees with some heat pads hooked up to a temperature controller set to 85degrees. Thinking I’d lose temp quickly, I wrapped the big kettle with two blankets. The next morning the shit was raging and the temp shot up to 99 degrees! I removed the blankets and the next day the temp reduced to 89.

Today is day 2.75 of the ferment and I’m staring at a completely fermented out mash with the temp showing 82deg. It measured less than 1.000 SG and it tastes slightly tart and pretty normal from what I expect.

Have you guys seen shit ferment this quickly?! I’m a little worried the hotter ferment might have hurt my final product.

It started at 1.061 and I pitched 1/2cup of yeast. The only things different in this batch were using a full 25gal of pure RO water and adding 4tsp calcium chloride pre-mash and A whole packet of Fermaid O instead of my usual DAP. I always start every large ferment with 5tsp of calcium carbonate to prevent pH crash.

Gonna run it tomorrow through my 4 plater. Crossing my fingers this batch is good as the previous ones.

Those yeasties work extra hard at the upper range of their temp. Probably fine but I haven’t used dady before. Interested to see how it comes out under these conditions.

BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:50 am After filling my 5gal barrel with some great HBB, i had exactly one 25gal batch worth of ingredients left. In all my previous batches, I used US-05 American Ale yeast, this time I wanted to try DADY distillers yeast to see the difference.

I followed my normal large batch protocol, but pitched the yeast at 92 degrees with some heat pads hooked up to a temperature controller set to 85degrees. Thinking I’d lose temp quickly, I wrapped the big kettle with two blankets. The next morning the shit was raging and the temp shot up to 99 degrees! I removed the blankets and the next day the temp reduced to 89.

Today is day 2.75 of the ferment and I’m staring at a completely fermented out mash with the temp showing 82deg. It measured less than 1.000 SG and it tastes slightly tart and pretty normal from what I expect.

Have you guys seen shit ferment this quickly?! I’m a little worried the hotter ferment might have hurt my final product.

It started at 1.061 and I pitched 1/2cup of yeast. The only things different in this batch were using a full 25gal of pure RO water and adding 4tsp calcium chloride pre-mash and A whole packet of Fermaid O instead of my usual DAP. I always start every large ferment with 5tsp of calcium carbonate to prevent pH crash.

Gonna run it tomorrow through my 4 plater. Crossing my fingers this batch is good as the previous ones.

So far the only ferment I've done that finished in under 4 days was a 30 gallon wash of Shady's Sugar Shine. Started it on a Sunday afternoon, and it was finished by Wednesday morning, and clear enough to see half way to the bottom of the Brute by Saturday. My AG mashes, all fermented with US-05 in the 68 to 75 degree range take a week or better to finish, and another week to clear. My KCB sugar head fermented at the lower end of the range for bakers yeast also took 7 days to dry.

Yeah I’m definitely used to a week or longer when I use US05 at 70 degrees.

I’ve used DADY distillers yeast several times in the past and it’s never fermented this quickly. Temps would usually hang between 82-85 degrees and it would take about 5 days. Maybe my really high temps on the first day plus all that fancy yeast nutrient made the yeast go more nuts than I’m used to.

UPDATE:

Ran the fresh wash on the 4 plates last night "with some hiccups I went over in another thread." Something definitely happened in the ferment that I'm not used to with this recipe. I'm sure the different yeast / high fermentation temps played a role, but this is all new to me. My background in brewing makes me pretty anal about fermentation health, so I'm not sure I've ever run something that could be truly DOA until now.

During my run, Once I got into the hearts, I started detecting an almost artificial floral "rose like" aroma mixed with a wet stone/concrete and a slight bitter flavor. A couple times I tried getting more aggressive with power/reflux to drag some of the usual sweet honey flavors into the hearts, but kept getting this crap instead. I've noticed this in previous runs of HBB, but was able to hold it back with more reflux/slower take-off. I'm very surprised how early into the hearts this started. This time, it seemed like no matter how I ran it, those aroma's/flavors just kept coming. Towards the latter part of the run, I really slowed the takeoff to prevent this, but sacrificed some of the good tails flavors by doing so.

Now I've got all my jars laid out... I easily identified the headsy jars and moved them aside "a bit more of them than usual." Normally, with this recipe, my hearts jars are abundantly sweet and carry over a lot of that honey/grain flavor. This time, the grain flavor is subdued and what I would consider the keeper jars have a bitter bite. So after the final blend, all I'm left with is a neutral-ish flavor with some sweetness, but a tinge of bitterness and a hint of that floral rose smell. Not my best bourbon...

Is this what fusel alcohols are like in a distilled product? Whatever it is seemed to want to drag over with the ethanol in the run. It would make sense that the high fermentation temp would facilitate higher alcohol production.

I still have the rest of the HBB wash I need to squeeze out of the grains / settle out for my second run. I wonder if I should just toss this keeper cut into the next run as feints and tweak my reflux ratio?

BB44,

One & done??

I always double distill my bourbon (and whiskey) through a potstill, making cuts on the spirit run.

Try it some time.
ss

Still_stirrin:

One and done on my 3" 4 Plate bubble cap column. Normally get good results with this method.

BB44. +1 to recommending a strip/spirit protocol on a pot still. I have not had good success with a single pass whiskey, though my experience trying this is limited.

The smells/tastes you describe in your hearts sounds like you were smearing. You may have been running too hot/fast. Lots to consider with reflux ratio and all, but in the end less power is likely needed and/or a slower takeoff. Just speculation.

Otis

BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:58 am… One and done on my 3" 4 Plate bubble cap column.

Normally get good results with this method. <— What kind of “wash”? A sugar wash … no doubt, it would taste better through 4 plates. But a bourbon/whiskey would be better with less reflux.

Next time, if you MUST do a “on & done”, run it with 2 plates, instead of 4. Don’t try to push your proof up so high. Instead, try for more flavor through.
ss

Drained a 5 liter barrel of honey bourbon that was aging for 7 months, quite a nice color and end result. Nice to have some "longer" aged product finally. Filled the barrel up with a rye-whiskey so we will see how that turns out. What's everyone's typical barrel procedure if I can ask that here? 1 and done or do you do a bourbon, then a whiskey, or scotch, then toss? I'm probably going to fill it once with beer before breaking it down. Haven't planned it out all the way.

BlueSasquatch wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:32 am Drained a 5 liter barrel of honey bourbon that was aging for 7 months, quite a nice color and end result. Nice to have some "longer" aged product finally. Filled the barrel up with a rye-whiskey so we will see how that turns out. What's everyone's typical barrel procedure if I can ask that here? 1 and done or do you do a bourbon, then a whiskey, or scotch, then toss? I'm probably going to fill it once with beer before breaking it down. Haven't planned it out all the way.

This would be a better thread starter in a new thread (Flavoring & Aging) rather than a derail here.
ss

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:02 pm

BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:58 am… One and done on my 3" 4 Plate bubble cap column.

Normally get good results with this method. <— What kind of “wash”? A sugar wash … no doubt, it would taste better through 4 plates. But a bourbon/whiskey would be better with less reflux.

Next time, if you MUST do a “on & done”, run it with 2 plates, instead of 4. Don’t try to push your proof up so high. Instead, try for more flavor through.
ss

Gotcha. I seem to get good flavor with 4 plates, but am probably missing out on a little more. I've tried running two plates in the past for some UJSSM and couldn't get it to run in a stable manner. I can always try again with this.

Well Still Stirrin, you were right. Thank you very much for your advice!

Did another10 gallon single run with the remaining wash I squeezed out of the grains and let clear, this time with 2 plates.

I was able to get a lot of flavor to carry through without much effort and didn't notice any of the nastiness I got with the first 4 plate run. As some of you correctly stated, I was smearing too much with the 4 plates trying to carry flavor through, essentially not using the tool as intended.

Simply limiting the number of plates allowed the desirable honey/grain flavor come early into the hearts and remain there til the dirty socks appeared. Probably the best run of anything I've done to date.

While I was collecting heads, it was a learning experience getting the still to behave properly. I think the issues I had it the past with 2 plates were simply not running enough power to get the proper mingling of gas and liquid. I eased into the power slowly throughout the beginning of the run, while using enough reflux to get the collection rate I wanted, until I ended up with my ideal power level, which was higher than I thought I'd need. I used my sense of smell, rubbing the distillate in my hands to detect bitter tails smearing into the early fractions. As I kept creeping up the power, the aroma became much more isolated to only heads. Once I got past the late heads, I turned up the power/reflux even more and started dragging over some great flavors from the recipe.

In my previous runs on 4 plates, I was also able to achieve similar flavor, but at a much higher proof, HOWEVER, it was actually much more time consuming, which is counter intuitive. I'd get very neutral hearts and had to run a lot of reflux when the early tails came in to avoid the bitter stuff, leading to slow drips in the final jars. These jars had highly concentrated the honey/grain flavor, which I then blended back in to the final keep. 2 plates seemed to cut my run time down by at least an hour. Another benefit being less dilution needed before aging.

The tails feints I ended up with still had a lot of good flavor, but had dirty socks mixed in. I'm currently fermenting a sugar head with the HBB grains, so I'll just add this stuff into the spirit run of that. Really looking forward to it as I've never made a sugar head before! I'll leave the sugar head white, with tighter cuts for something to sip on while the rest of my aging products have some time to sleep.

BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:55 am ...til the dirty socks appeared....

My dog would love this likker!

BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:55 am rubbing the distillate in my hands to detect bitter tails smearing into the early fractions. As I kept creeping up the

rubbing hard on hands helps with tails I find to......the longer you rub the more tails stand out.....seems to intensify as the more volatile spirt evaporates.

Yep, sometimes to speed up the evaporation I’ll actually blow on my hands a couple times while I’m rubbing. For me, it’s the best way to detect tails since sometimes the jars still taste okay.

you got it.

Sugar head done in 3 days! Hoping it has a whisper of that HBB flavor. The fresh wash definitely tasted like it. Cheers!

Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:28 pm rubbing hard on hands helps with tails I find to......the longer you rub the more tails stand out.....seems to intensify as the more volatile spirt evaporates.

Usually if you find some tail, you don't have rub hard with your hands...




Sorry - couldn't resist!!!

Duck

Just ran the HBB sugar head through the plates yesterday. Wow, I’ll never waste the grains again. Has a ton of the flavor of the bourbon and was dirt cheap and easy to make. Used 2 gallons of backset and the late heads/tails feints from the HBB run.

Fermented out completely in 3 days and it’s absolutely delicious. Highly recommend!

BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:20 am Just ran the HBB sugar head through the plates yesterday. Wow, I’ll never waste the grains again. Has a ton of the flavor of the bourbon and was dirt cheap and easy to make. Used 2 gallons of backset and the late heads/tails feints from the HBB run.

Fermented out completely in 3 days and it’s absolutely delicious. Highly recommend!

Glad you were successful! Willing to share your altered recipe? Less grains and add sugar I assume, but???

I think he just piggie backed. Use same grains from original recipe. Just add sugar and water to them to get around 1.08. Then let her rip!