Rum Talk......

[LWTCS]

Was that a local purchase?

It was BD

Feller said it would tolerate high ferment temps well. Tried to splain as round about as I could what I was looking for.

Feller seem to be fairly up to speed.

So I ma give it a go.

[kiwistiller]

I reckon s33 ferments too cold for rum, personally. It's good and peppery though, just ferments a long way south of the sort of temps arroyo and co suggest for a rum (due to the bacteria I think).

[LWTCS]

Thanks for that Kiwi.

Recon The feller ain't up to speed much better than me.

No matter.

It is pitched and we shall see.

[suburban hillbilly]

Yeah I haven't looked into vanilla extract, I only use the beans. Easier to control.

Hi When we talk about beans here are we talking spliting open a pod and a bean being part of the contents or a whole pod being a bean. I have just bought some and don't want to throw in the wrong amount as its aging nicely at the momemt.
All the best S H

[kiwistiller]

I've had good luck just using the whole pods. If it's aging good though, you might want to just leave it? or try with a small sample.

[Austin Nichols]

I've been aging mine with the following for every five liters at 65% ABV

1 slice pine apple
10 black pepper corns
6 raisins
2 cloves
2 heavy toasted oak sticks

Take the pine apple and raisins out after 14 days

After one month it's amazing and everyone who's tried it reckons it's the best rum ever.

Cheers.

[Liquid_Luv]

I've been aging mine with the following for every five liters at 65% ABV

1 slice pine apple
10 black pepper corns
6 raisins
2 cloves
2 heavy toasted oak sticks

Take the pine apple and raisins out after 14 days

After one month it's amazing and everyone who's tried it reckons it's the best rum ever.

Cheers.

I know I am about to piss off a lot of folks whom I respect and have actually learnt a great deal from… but I just have to put in my two cents on this one… especially since I’ ve become so passionate about my rum…

Captain Morgan… or for that matter, spiced rum in general, can be a very tasty treat… however please don’t ever call it the best rum… it is leftovers that have been made to taste good. Please don’t get me wrong… I do like the recipe as for the flavour profile… it’s just not something I would do to my best rums… please continue for my explanation and hopefully I’ll get a stay of execution…

With all the great info on this site to actually make really good rum… nay, excellent rum… and the effort required making such excellent rum, being so much more than neutral spirits from left over heads and tails, or basic sugar wash… why would anyone actually use their best rum and turn it into salad dressing? The recipe you have used to make your best spiced rum, would give the same taste and color using neutrals… and since you probably end up with 30% of all spirits produced as neutrals, and like the Captain Morgan tasting stuff… you should be able to respect your best rum by properly aging it for a few years, all the while, having plenty of the Captain to go around.

When reviewing the section of this site regarding flavours and aging… the spotlight is on force aging to get drinkable spirit fast so we don’t run dry… Please understand, we can recreate any flavour profile we wish just using extracts and infusions that have been made with neutrals and sugars (including caramel, molasses, glycerine, honey, etc…), spice, woods, herbs, dried or fresh fruits, nuts, grains, etc… We can fake 2-3 years of aging within a few short months, using wood chips or little sticks, even a few drops of glycerine to take the edge off fresh swill… just airing your spirits for a few days will advance age it a few months worth… But in the end, nothing beats the real thing… and the real thing requires time… you just can’t fake 20 years on wood when talking premium spirits.

So all I’m saying is Rum is aged on wood, not pineapples and raisins… as soon as you add so much as a clove or peppercorn, it is no longer rum… it is now spiced rum… and it doesn’t even need to be made with rum to be given a rum flavour profile…

I respectfully apologize to Pugi, for saying that Pugirum isn't a true rum... Pugi has given us all a great insight and recipe to create excellent rum… but he then seasons it as a spiced rum to his personal taste… which is great… for himself, and others of course, who prefer spiced rum rather than rum… Rum produced by Pugi ‘s method, if left to age on wood, and nothing else, for two years… well all I can say is… WoW… excellent rum… real rum!!! So if you want to talk rum… Let’s talk…

[suburban hillbilly]

I've had good luck just using the whole pods. If it's aging good though, you might want to just leave it? or try with a small sample.

Thanks for that Kiwi. I am away from early december until next april so i intend to leave my stock aging apart from about a litre I have to one side. I have three bottles of rum from two generations aging at the moment which will obviously expand once cut to drinking strength. I have really only experimented with one of the smaller bottles as not to ruin the whole lot should it go wrong. So fingers crossed it tastes as good as its smelling when I get back.
All the best S H

[Austin Nichols]

Far out LL

I'll just take my fake rum and leave this topic alone I think.

[Liquid_Luv]

Whatever keeps you happy at the end of the run... Cheers!

[LWTCS]

Whatever keeps you happy at the end of the run... Cheers!
Whatever keeps you happy at the end of the run... Cheers!
Quote Austin Nichols Re: Rum Talk......
by Austin Nichols » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:58 am
Far out LL

For members out there that like or even prefer the spiced version,,,I don't think L_L was saying to stop making as such (for heavens sake). Only that,,,,,,(and I'm paraphrasing),,,,,,,,,,,,,(for instance),,, a 5 year old anejo is (perhaps) more special than a captain morgan styled beverage.

I previously could not stand any white rums within my price range. And now that I have a stock I have clearly been changing my thoughts about what is my preferance.

[kiwistiller]

I make loads of spiced rum. Can't keep it on the shelves, my friends all prefer it to my plain rum which I personally think is a more technically accurate, traditional rum. Yes, spiced rum is different to an anejo, or XO, or white for that matter, but far be it from me to sit and pass value judgements over one or the other.

But then again, it's my goal to be a complete distiller, able to make anything, any style, so I would say that

[Liquid_Luv]

For members out there that like or even prefer the spiced version,,,I don't think L_L was saying to stop making as such (for heavens sake). Only that,,,,,,(and I'm paraphrasing),,,,,,,,,,,,,(for instance),,, a 5 year old anejo is (perhaps) more special than a captain morgan styled beverage.

I previously could not stand any white rums within my price range. And now that I have a stock I have clearly been changing my thoughts about what is my preferance.

Nice to see my point well taken... thanks LWTCS

I make loads of spiced rum. Can't keep it on the shelves, my friends all prefer it to my plain rum which I personally think is a more technically accurate, traditional rum. Yes, spiced rum is different to an anejo, or XO, or white for that matter, but far be it from me to sit and pass value judgements over one or the other.

But then again, it's my goal to be a complete distiller, able to make anything, any style, so I would say that

Kiwi, I make loads of the spiced stuff as well... keeps my rum and coke buddies happy... and saves the good stuff for those that appreciate it

I think Austin took it too much to heart I am simply suggesting using neutrals for the flavored spirits ... any and all... and keep the prized cuts for what they are... respect them and age them as it was meant to be...

[Austin Nichols]

I think Austin took it too much to heart

I dont think so sunshine.

[blind drunk]

I just racked the big bucket of rum wash into two littler ones and want to keep the sludge for my next charge. I know to make a starter with it rather than adding directly. What I did is fill half a mason jar with the dredge and then top up with some wash. Put it in the fridge. This should work, right? Or wrong? Thanks, bd.

[Liquid_Luv]

I just racked the big bucket of rum wash into two littler ones and want to keep the sludge for my next charge. I know to make a starter with it rather than adding directly. What I did is fill half a mason jar with the dredge and then top up with some wash. Put it in the fridge. This should work, right? Or wrong? Thanks, bd.

Not sure how long you can keep it in the fridge... I usually add the new wash within 24 hours and let her rip

BD, is this the wash you knocked up on Oct 15 with the 25% infected dunder??? If so, how's the smell now? When you stillin her? Just can't wait for those results.

[blind drunk]

BD, is this the wash you knocked up on Oct 15 with the 25% infected dunder??? If so, how's the smell now? When you stillin her? Just can't wait for those results.

That long ago? I think the ferment got too cold cause once I put a heating pad to it it took off. I also added 2 tsp of baking soda, thinking maybe the wash was too acidic Smells complex and 'till wait till it settles out. Cheers, bd.

[Austin Nichols]

OK I'm interested how one goes about aging white rum, I've saved a couple of bottles from my hearts at 75% ABV and would like to give this a try.

Cheers.

[LWTCS]

At the moment, I'm doing mine in glass with a bit of head space.

I'd like to have a spent barrel. But the glass is getting the job done.

[suburban hillbilly]

Hi Guys
I cut down a litre and a half of 82% pugi rum last night with a litre and a half of bottled water. I poured all of the rum into a glass demi john and then aded the water to mix.
It all turned a bit cloudy.
Today it looked more cloudy than the night before soI held it up to the daylight and I can see particles in it there was also the start of it collecting on the bottom of the bottle. This was one of my early runs so not sure if its tails or something else. I did read on another thread it could be a reaction to minerals in the water so ive posted the pic of the water mimneral analysis.
I did try some last night and it tasted ok and was looking forward to aging it some more.
I have stuck one bottle in the fridge to see if the particles settle so I can maybe decant or pass it through some very fine mesh filter or maybe a coffee filter to remove the worst of it. Not sure if its worth mentioning or not but I did age this stuff for a while with raisins, vanilla pod, date and a tablespoon of honey. There was sedement created from that but always sank to the bottom leaving the distillate crystal clear.
Suggestions please. If it dosen't clear its still ok to drink though?
All the best with my fingers crossed S H.

[blind drunk]

Finally stripped my infected dunder rum. Early results aren't good. I know it's only low wines without cuts, but I have a bad feeling on this one. I have another 7 gallons that I'll add the low wines to and do a slow spirit run with a packed 18" column. I may have caught the wrong bacteria or it got buggered up because it took too long to ferment. Maybe it should be quick when dealing with bacteria

As an aside, my last rum run was so much better (regular dunder). Maybe because the wash sat for about 8 months before I ran it. Also, my last rum spirit run was good too and the low wines sat for that long as well. Both gave very good drinkable yields.

bd

[Liquid_Luv]

Finally stripped my infected dunder rum. Early results aren't good. I know it's only low wines without cuts, but I have a bad feeling on this one. I have another 7 gallons that I'll add the low wines to and do a slow spirit run with a packed 18" column. I may have caught the wrong bacteria or it got buggered up because it took too long to ferment. Maybe it should be quick when dealing with bacteria

bd

BD, I was too anxious waiting for you to get this one done, that I knocked up a batch with 10-12% infected dunder by volume... it fermented dry to 8% in just under 30 hours... my washes are usually geared to produce 14-16% abv and take 10-14 days... so this is a first for me in the low abv fast lane washes

This new batch made with infected dunder, has a slightly different smell to it than my typical washes, however, it is quite pleasant. It smells sweet although very dry, 1.002 on the hydrometer. I won't dare taste this one as the bacteria from the dunder may well kill me

I am letting this one settle out until completely clear, perhaps a month... this will allow the dunder bacteria a chance to finish up those unfermentable solids from the molasses if they haven't already done so... my washes usually finish dry with a slightly higher reading on the hydrometer.

As an aside, my last rum run was so much better (regular dunder). Maybe because the wash sat for about 8 months before I ran it. Also, my last rum spirit run was good too and the low wines sat for that long as well. Both gave very good drinkable yields.

bd

I also had a 23 l (5 imp gal) wash that was hiding in my cold cellar for well over 8-9 months... it was sitting on lees all that time, and the wash was so clear you could see right through it like a perfect black crystal with redish amber tones when poured into a glass. It had a nice balanced smell, and actually tasted very nice... like a top shelf wine with a decidedly molasses note. I tasted this one as it wasn't made with infested dunder and all was quite sterile from start to finish.

I ran her hard and fast through my pot still and finished up with just over 8 liters of low wines [avg 45- 50% abv] in 3 hours... the remaing dunder smelled even better than usual and I saved all of it into a fresh new pit, rather than recycling into a new wash. Roughly half way through, I pulled off 100 ml at 65% abv of true middle run hearts, fresh off the still, it was sweeter and tastier than normal [ this batch was made with 3rd generation yeast (EC-1118)and recycled non aged dunder off a 2nd generation strip run ].

Although I don't think any commercial distilleries actually allow their product to settle and age on lees such as a wine... perhaps there is something positive to be said about making a common practice of this Maybe, it is just the total lack of yeast going into the boiler as a result of 100% of them settling out that makes the difference rather than an aging factor... either way, I was impressed with the results enough to try to recreate them with a few new batches... I plan to document the results, trying different time frames, using identical wash recipes.

Cheers!

[blind drunk]

BD, I was too anxious waiting for you to get this one done,

Sorry!!

and the wash was so clear you could see right through it like a perfect black crystal with redish amber tones when poured into a glass. It had a nice balanced smell, and actually tasted very nice... like a top shelf wine with a decidedly molasses note.

Mine too.

Maybe, it is just the total lack of yeast going into the boiler as a result of 100% of them settling out that makes the difference rather than an aging factor

Could be. I really wasn't happy with the clarity of my last wash, but I thought that maybe I'm normally too picky Slow and Steady mentioned somewhere that he keeps his apple washes sitting on their lees for a year and then he runs it for his apply brandy. Patience is a virtue, but it's so damn slow!!

bd

[LWTCS]

Although I don't think any commercial distilleries actually allow their product to settle and age on lees such as a wine... perhaps there is something positive to be said about making a common practice of this Maybe, it is just the total lack of yeast going into the boiler as a result of 100% of them settling out that makes the difference rather than an aging factor... either way, I was impressed with the results enough to try to recreate them with a few new batches... I plan to document the results, trying different time frames, using identical wash recipes.

Interesting comment. My hunch is that the commercial boys don't want to leave anything to chance,,,,,,what with projected production cycles and so forth. Recon they need to confirm and insure a repeatable outcome.

Feller told me the other day that aerated water (as such) is discouraged. I assume for fear of some kind of funk blooming.

[Liquid_Luv]

BD, I was too anxious waiting for you to get this one done,

Sorry!!


bd

No need to be sorry for anything... you got me thinking, then doing

...I believe we all learn more by doing than waiting to hear of someone elses results... especially since there are many variables that go unaccounted for... wash ingredients, measurements, level of cleanliness, yeast types and quantities, number of generations, etc,etc...

I really wasn't happy with the clarity of my last wash, but I thought that maybe I'm normally too picky Slow and Steady mentioned somewhere that he keeps his apple washes sitting on their lees for a year and then he runs it for his apply brandy.

bd

Picky is a good thing... that is how we get what we want in life...

if resting on lees is good enough for many of the premier wines, best brandies and Cognacs... and S&S's apple brandy...

well then concidering both your old batch as well as my old batch seemed to be one of the better runs we've had... well maybe just maybe the best kept secret to the best rums of all is good old fashion patience...

I'd love to hear from some of our esteemed whiskey makers as to whether or not they have had similar experiences in running washes that have been left forgotten on lees for many months prior to stillin???

Patience is a virtue, but it's so damn slow!!

Soooo damn true... guess that's why so many of us look to speed age some of our spirits, cause we just can't wait no more

[Liquid_Luv]

Although I don't think any commercial distilleries actually allow their product to settle and age on lees such as a wine... perhaps there is something positive to be said about making a common practice of this Maybe, it is just the total lack of yeast going into the boiler as a result of 100% of them settling out that makes the difference rather than an aging factor... either way, I was impressed with the results enough to try to recreate them with a few new batches... I plan to document the results, trying different time frames, using identical wash recipes.

Interesting comment. My hunch is that the commercial boys don't want to leave anything to chance,,,,,,what with projected production cycles and so forth. Recon they need to confirm and insure a repeatable outcome.

Feller told me the other day that aerated water (as such) is discouraged. I assume for fear of some kind of funk blooming.

LWTCS, with all due respect, I am failing to see the point re: aerated water As we've been discussing previously fermented dry washes that have alcohol of at least 7%+++ abv... I don't think there would be the same level of concern over too much funk blooming? At least no concerns over algues growing

As far as insuring repeatable outcomes... someone please correct me if they have in fact evidence to the contrary... insurable outcomes, hence consistency in product taste, smell and overall profile, is developped through a very careful art of the master of blenders at each distillery...

Each class of spirit have certain range of profiles, and high level knowledge of the type of spirit and the range of their profiles, allow the master blender the luxury of duplication at a very acurate level of consistency.

Johny Walker "Gold Label" tastes the same over and over again... it is very different from "Blue Label" or "Black Label" and so forth... just as Chivas will always be Chivas... they are duplicated using many whiskeys of differnet ages, batches, etc... possibly even from different sources, even countries, yet they always taste the same.

Appelton Estate makes several classes and grades of quality RUM, that have very consistent flavor profiles for each product offering... they have all been masterfully blended to obtain the desired profile.

[Liquid_Luv]

if resting on lees is good enough for many of the premier wines, best brandies and Cognacs... and S&S's apple brandy...

well then concidering both your old batch as well as my old batch seemed to be one of the better runs we've had... well maybe just maybe the best kept secret to the best rums of all is good old fashion patience...

I'd love to hear from some of our esteemed whiskey makers as to whether or not they have had similar experiences in running washes that have been left forgotten on lees for many months prior to stillin???

This has been such a fun and informative thread, however, I think we all need to hear from as many members as possible their experiences stillin washes that have been left on lees for months or longer...

I started a new thread on just that topic, it is in the "recipe development" category titled "Washes forgotten on lees = Best Brandy, Rum, whiskey… ???"

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p6871805

I hope many of you can and will contribute, and hope all will find it interesting and informative.

Cheers!!!

[Liquid_Luv]

BD, I was too anxious waiting for you to get this one done, that I knocked up a batch with 10-12% infected dunder by volume... it fermented dry to 8% in just under 30 hours... my washes are usually geared to produce 14-16% abv and take 10-14 days... so this is a first for me in the low abv fast lane washes

This new batch made with infected dunder, has a slightly different smell to it than my typical washes, however, it is quite pleasant. It smells sweet although very dry, 1.002 on the hydrometer. I won't dare taste this one as the bacteria from the dunder may well kill me

I am letting this one settle out until completely clear, perhaps a month... this will allow the dunder bacteria a chance to finish up those unfermentable solids from the molasses if they haven't already done so... my washes usually finish dry with a slightly higher reading on the hydrometer.

Cheers!

Well I am in full experimental mode right now... small 23 liter [5 IMP Gal] washes. one recipe only... then I will leave each on lees... one for 1 month, another two months, 3 months, 6 months, a full year etc... As I run them, I will compare freshly run, aired for a week, aged a month, two, three, six, etc... the recipe I have chosen to use as my standard for this experiment is as follows...

Doing more infected washes... this one using fully aged sterile Dunder 10% [approx. 2 liters]and 15% [approx. 3 liters]actively infected Dunder... plus my usual one large, two medium or 3 small converted potatos... I've been boiling in one extremely over ripe black banana with the potato water, then straining out all solids... to this I add my typical wash ingredients...

50% Fancy Molasses (2 KG = 1.20 KG fermentable sugars), 50% brown sugar (2 KG [from cane, not beet or anything else])... 2 multi vitamines, 1 tsp DAP, 1tsp Epsom salts, 2 tbsp boiled lees, 12-15 liters fresh boiled Dunder, then fresh chlorine free water to 22-23 liters if needed.

Consistantly Yields just over 8% every time... these washes have been fast... even with the very high amount of Dunder, they are done within 4 days.

My last wash is just finishing up... I think The sg is at 1.000 on the nose, yet I still hear life in the fermenter and the occasional yet steady 1/4 inch burp bubbles causing my airlock to jump once every 20-22 seconds... this wash smells so much like a three year old aged on oak rum... ??? Something weird going on in there

Seems the infection is still working, as most of the yeast has settled out at this point and the hydrometer confirms "dry"... will keep you posted. Very exciting development

[blind drunk]

Hate to say it, but my infected dunder experiment failed. I must have gotten the wrong bacteria ... or something. I think the rest of my dunder pit is going into my septic, one gallon at a time. Should clean the pipes nicely The best rum I've made so far is the simpler method with fresh dunder etc. Maybe it works better in the tropics. I would consider doing it again if I could purchase the right bacteria. I've asked my cheese making friends, but they can't get it.

bd.

[Liquid_Luv]

Hate to say it, but my infected dunder experiment failed. I must have gotten the wrong bacteria ... or something. I think the rest of my dunder pit is going into my septic, one gallon at a time. Should clean the pipes nicely The best rum I've made so far is the simpler method with fresh dunder etc. Maybe it works better in the tropics. I would consider doing it again if I could purchase the right bacteria. I've asked my cheese making friends, but they can't get it.

bd.

BD, Real sorry to hear it didn't turn out right... Could you do your best to describe the tastes, the smells, etc...

Perhaps leaving it to age a couple of months may do some good... Since it was an experiment to begin with, why not let her go all the way?

I must have gotten lucky with my pits so far... they've been kind to me... if you get the right bug in there, the results seem well worth the effort.