its ok. me and some friends will kill these two bottles this weekend. I think I will get a more quality proportioned batch macerating now...
Absinthe recipe
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Dont know much about whiskey but I assume the answer is no, but I understand it undergoes some heavy flavouring no?The 'smooth mouth feel' and subtle taste difference is hardly what i would call a heavy flavour. Obviously unless one tried it one couldnt comment on whether it would work or not, if the compounds responsible for the smooth mouth feel are present in the grape juice then it would work. It would definetly impart some taste onto the distillate. I read somwhere on this site somone was making "brandy" from distilling grape juice in alcohol, which is where i got the idea. I will try it and my other idea and post back with results.As for adding grape juice to high-proof vodka and then distilling, do you think we could make ourselves a good batch of whiskey by adding corn to vodka and then distilling that? Or, to follow your logic, a glass of wine by adding some grape juice to alcohol.
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Marionette
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Some HGs are better than some commercially produced absinthes, sure. But I've tasted some HGs that are terrible and some commercial absinthes that are amazing and well worth the cost of a bottle. I could do without the high cost of shipping, but that just gives me an incentive to buy more than one bottle at a time.
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aj
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Steam extraction instead of primary maceration
I'm going to ask this question here, since it seems to be the de-facto absinthe recipe thread.
Some background: I have a laboratory-grade steam distiller. It is very VERY good at what it does, and a gin essence I made recently turned out so well that people were practically begging to pay me for a bottle.
What I'm wondering is if I couldn't use it for the primary stage of absinthe production.
The way I understand classical absinthe production is as follows:
1) Primary distillation of base spirit.
(I've heard that a neutral or almost-neutralfrom grapes is best)
2) Primary maceration
(including A. absinthium, Green anise, etc)
3) Secondary distillation.
4) Secondary maceration
(including A. pontica, etc)
With the secondary distillation, you would be collecting only those substances which would evaporate at or below the boiling temperature of the base spirit. Wouldn't I be able to simply extract these substances from the botanicals using steam?
Let's say that I took all of the necessary ingredients in the proper measures for a 10-liter batch and extracted all of their volatiles using steam. Could I not then add the resulting extract to the 10 liters of spirit and then proceed with the secondary maceration as normal?
Some background: I have a laboratory-grade steam distiller. It is very VERY good at what it does, and a gin essence I made recently turned out so well that people were practically begging to pay me for a bottle.
What I'm wondering is if I couldn't use it for the primary stage of absinthe production.
The way I understand classical absinthe production is as follows:
1) Primary distillation of base spirit.
(I've heard that a neutral or almost-neutralfrom grapes is best)
2) Primary maceration
(including A. absinthium, Green anise, etc)
3) Secondary distillation.
4) Secondary maceration
(including A. pontica, etc)
With the secondary distillation, you would be collecting only those substances which would evaporate at or below the boiling temperature of the base spirit. Wouldn't I be able to simply extract these substances from the botanicals using steam?
Let's say that I took all of the necessary ingredients in the proper measures for a 10-liter batch and extracted all of their volatiles using steam. Could I not then add the resulting extract to the 10 liters of spirit and then proceed with the secondary maceration as normal?
"I would like to observe the vermouth from across the room while I drink my martini." -- Winston Churchill
It appears that what you are proposing is to make absinthe using steam distilled essences (ala Gert Strand). By using steam-distilled oils, the best you'll get is a Spanish absenta-like drink. The very best absinthes have always been made by distilling the whole charge (85% spirits, herbs/spices) in a pot-type still. By using steam-distilled essences, you will be missing some of the key and subtle flavors that are the hallmark of a well-made absinthe.
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pintoshine
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In the USA it is spring and the late freeze took out most of the blooms including the Honey Locust. But I am glad to report that the wormwood is progressing nicely. I have identified and marked a plot of wormwood at least 20 meters by 10 meters. I am going to hit the Indian spice stores in the fall and I am sure I can get all the spices I need from them. I just wanted to let you all know that your input of identification and utilization is at work.
I see some top rate absinthe in my future.
I see some top rate absinthe in my future.
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Marionette
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I thought I had replied before, but obviously not!
The problem I can see with distillation like that is that you could extract components from the raw materials which you don't necessarily want in your drink. (I have no personal experience of steam distillation though.)
There are recipes for making absinthe from individual oils in old books such as the ones on the Virtual Absinthe Museum site, but they are not for the highest quality ones. If you have a pot still it would be better to make absinthe directly from the raw ingredients as Zman has said.
Como se dice. . .
The problem I can see with distillation like that is that you could extract components from the raw materials which you don't necessarily want in your drink. (I have no personal experience of steam distillation though.)
There are recipes for making absinthe from individual oils in old books such as the ones on the Virtual Absinthe Museum site, but they are not for the highest quality ones. If you have a pot still it would be better to make absinthe directly from the raw ingredients as Zman has said.
Como se dice. . .
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aj
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I wouldn't necessarily compare it to Gert Strand. By comparing it to an essence that is universally agreed-upon to be sub-par at best, you are dismissing this method out-of-hand, and I don't think that's particularly fair. I'm not talking about trying some quick-fix here, I'm just talking about trying a different method to obtain the first part of the equation. Keep in mind that the Gert Strand essence purports to make finished absinthe right out of the bottle, and this includes coloring and all. I'm not so arrogant as to assume I can just create a little bottle of absinthe essence (as I did with the gin), and then turn hootch into absinthe with it. I'm not trying to substitute speed for processes that can only be obtained with time (like the coloring/final maceration).Zman wrote:It appears that what you are proposing is to make absinthe using steam distilled essences (ala Gert Strand). By using steam-distilled oils, the best you'll get is a Spanish absenta-like drink.
My take on the re-distillation is that it was done because pot-stills were really all that was available during Absinthe's heyday. Of course re-distillation would be necessary then, because there was no reliable way to extract all of the volatiles from the plants without soaking them in a solvent first. Now, this is just my take, and if someone wants to shoot holes in it, that's great, because I want to learn more.
Okay, now this is what I'm talking about. If this is true beyond a sort of conservatist attitude towards the old ways, I'd like to hear some more about it. What would be missing, necessarily? By steam distilling the first half of the absinthe (especially with my rig), any substance that boils at a lower temperature than water would be collected in a pure form on the other end. Solvency in alcohol vs. water wouldn't matter because anything that would have originally been collected in an alcohol distillation would have had a lower boiling point than water, regardless of whether it was soluble in the alcohol or not. And, since only the distillate was kept, any lower-boiling-temperature substances that might have dissolved in the alcohol wouldn't have been collected anyway. This is why the first stage is clear and the wastewater is a brackish green.Zman wrote:The very best absinthes have always been made by distilling the whole charge (85% spirits, herbs/spices) in a pot-type still. By using steam-distilled essences, you will be missing some of the key and subtle flavors that are the hallmark of a well-made absinthe.
Of course, solubility in alcohol vs. water definitely comes into play in the second stage of production (the final maceration and coloring), which I had planned to do according to the original methods.
Any flaws in this reasoning? Please feel free to chime in here, I am all about criticism, especially when it comes to creating a good product. The main reason I'm asking is not so much to try and take a shortcut, but to find out if this really awesome steam distiller I have could be used in any way to supplement the traditional methods.
"I would like to observe the vermouth from across the room while I drink my martini." -- Winston Churchill
I don't think Zman is dismising it out of hand. He's simply stating what is generally a known fact, which is that absinthes made from oil mixes tend to be lower quality than those made by distilling the whole charge in a pot still.
While it's theoretically possible to make a really good oil mix, my understanding has always been that it's exceptionally difficult to produce a steam essence without some off flavors, whether from scorching the herbs due to prolonged exposure to heat or due to the fact that steam distilling wouldn't allow you the same ability to separate the flavors from the front of a run from those that come in at the back (the different oils in an absinthe charge come over at different times in a run, and those in the tails taste markedly different from those in the head and heart of the run). This would be, of course, because rather than bringing a whole charge up to temperature slowly, allowing you to make cuts, you would be taking the oils at the same high temperature through the entire run. Then there's the problem of knowing at what ratios you should mix the oils.
I'm curious as to why you would try something like this, though. It seems like taking the long route to create a lesser product than you would otherwise get through a simple potstill distillation.
My suggestion is that, if you try it, you go about it in as scientific a fashion as possible. Make two batches, one with this method and one with more traditional methods, and then treat yourself to a blind taste test. Have someone pour you two glasses without your knowing which is in which and tell him/her to leave the room. Then prep each glass in exactly the same way and rate them as you drink them. When you're done, have your friend come back in and reveal to you which ones were which.
While it's theoretically possible to make a really good oil mix, my understanding has always been that it's exceptionally difficult to produce a steam essence without some off flavors, whether from scorching the herbs due to prolonged exposure to heat or due to the fact that steam distilling wouldn't allow you the same ability to separate the flavors from the front of a run from those that come in at the back (the different oils in an absinthe charge come over at different times in a run, and those in the tails taste markedly different from those in the head and heart of the run). This would be, of course, because rather than bringing a whole charge up to temperature slowly, allowing you to make cuts, you would be taking the oils at the same high temperature through the entire run. Then there's the problem of knowing at what ratios you should mix the oils.
I'm curious as to why you would try something like this, though. It seems like taking the long route to create a lesser product than you would otherwise get through a simple potstill distillation.
My suggestion is that, if you try it, you go about it in as scientific a fashion as possible. Make two batches, one with this method and one with more traditional methods, and then treat yourself to a blind taste test. Have someone pour you two glasses without your knowing which is in which and tell him/her to leave the room. Then prep each glass in exactly the same way and rate them as you drink them. When you're done, have your friend come back in and reveal to you which ones were which.
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aj
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The reason I would be interested in pursuing this is that I have a REALLY NICE oil extractor that is capable of exceptional separation of pure oils and exceptional yield. As to the ratios, there would be no question because I would be carefully measuring the herbs and adding them into the flask at the same time. Then the resulting oil could simply be collected as a whole and added to the appropriate amount of spirits, diluted and then given final maceration.
Basically, I'm trying to see if this can be done without the necessity of cuts. Your point about the oils occurring in different quantities at different times in the run is a good one, however, and could prove to be the major downfall of this approach if there are off flavors added. No worries about scorching the herbs, though. A good steam distillation almost never does this.
As to what Zman said, I would definitely consider the comparison to Gert Strand essence to be dismissing it out of hand. Who knows how they give their essence the green color, whether they use roman wormwood or not, whether they use the right kind of anise or not, etc etc. All that can really be said about it is that it is so-so at best.
I guess, I'm just having a hard time seeing the difference. Whether you extract them separately or not, isn't the goal to get these oils into your final product? Are the quantities of herbs in classical recipes higher than their expected oil yield to account for cuts (i.e. would my method perhaps extract too much)?
Excellent idea on the blind taste test. I shall have to try it...
Basically, I'm trying to see if this can be done without the necessity of cuts. Your point about the oils occurring in different quantities at different times in the run is a good one, however, and could prove to be the major downfall of this approach if there are off flavors added. No worries about scorching the herbs, though. A good steam distillation almost never does this.
As to what Zman said, I would definitely consider the comparison to Gert Strand essence to be dismissing it out of hand. Who knows how they give their essence the green color, whether they use roman wormwood or not, whether they use the right kind of anise or not, etc etc. All that can really be said about it is that it is so-so at best.
I guess, I'm just having a hard time seeing the difference. Whether you extract them separately or not, isn't the goal to get these oils into your final product? Are the quantities of herbs in classical recipes higher than their expected oil yield to account for cuts (i.e. would my method perhaps extract too much)?
Excellent idea on the blind taste test. I shall have to try it...
"I would like to observe the vermouth from across the room while I drink my martini." -- Winston Churchill
I see. So rather than distill oils from each herb and then mix them ala a cocktail, you plan to create an "absinthe essence." I guess it could work, but I think your most difficult problem will be that you'll get oils in it that you don't want. With a steam distillation, the end-of-run stuff that typically comes over last and in the least quantities because they're volatile at higher temperatures will come over with the more desirable earlier stuff. It might be another interesting addendum to this experiment to also try to creat essences of each herb. Maybe give you some experience seeing how each herb affects the final flavor of your absinthe.aj wrote: As to the ratios, there would be no question because I would be carefully measuring the herbs and adding them into the flask at the same time. Then the resulting oil could simply be collected as a whole and added to the appropriate amount of spirits, diluted and then given final maceration.
Personally, I can't speak as to the why of it, but I do know that oil essence mixes are typically of worse quality than those absinthes that experience a standard pot distillation. Even outside of the Gert Strand mixes, there are high-quality oil mixes on the market (and they were part of the market in the absinthe heyday), and while they are not bad, they're never as good as a good-quality distilled absinthe. I have my thoughts on why that is, but they're really only speculations.I guess, I'm just having a hard time seeing the difference. Whether you extract them separately or not, isn't the goal to get these oils into your final product? Are the quantities of herbs in classical recipes higher than their expected oil yield to account for cuts (i.e. would my method perhaps extract too much)?
Fascinating discussion guys. Is it possible to get a Chemist Distiller’s permit for $20? and make absinthe for friends? I was reading this article about a guy distilling absinthe in a hidden still in Washington and then putting a Swiss label on:
http://buyabsinthe.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... /#comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
“experimentation was done under a full moon, with a single hidden still, until the desired effect was achieved”
Apparently it was available at this event in New Orleans last week:
http://www.talesofthecocktail.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Does anyone know where I can get some of this absinthe
http://buyabsinthe.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... /#comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
“experimentation was done under a full moon, with a single hidden still, until the desired effect was achieved”
Apparently it was available at this event in New Orleans last week:
http://www.talesofthecocktail.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Does anyone know where I can get some of this absinthe
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WhiteLightning
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Watched euro trip yesterday, and was wondering if it was possible to get that same glow outta my absinthe? i know i cant do it naturally, but is there anything non-toxic i could add to the end result to make it glow nice like?
Also i did an experiment with my absinthe recipe, and came out with a magic mushrom absinthe, I think they have a name for it but i forgot it.
Anyway, a friend tested it out and found out that after the alcohol wears down a bit, you start "tripping" hard. He also drank about a pint of it (151proof) which had 1/4 oz of psilocybin cubenis mushrooms mixed in then distilled just like absinthe.
I dont recommend doing this, but it was something id been dying to make for awhile.
Also i did an experiment with my absinthe recipe, and came out with a magic mushrom absinthe, I think they have a name for it but i forgot it.
Anyway, a friend tested it out and found out that after the alcohol wears down a bit, you start "tripping" hard. He also drank about a pint of it (151proof) which had 1/4 oz of psilocybin cubenis mushrooms mixed in then distilled just like absinthe.
I dont recommend doing this, but it was something id been dying to make for awhile.
If it dont burn it aint good!
Proudly tearing up the blacktop since 1996!
Proudly tearing up the blacktop since 1996!
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Uncle Jesse
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cut the druggie discussions please
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4710
This isn't the proper place to discuss illegal narcotics. Period.
This isn't the proper place to discuss illegal narcotics. Period.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.
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WhiteLightning
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MudDuck wrote:Quick question for the Absinthe crowd, I have never tried Absinthe but now I'm curious about it. What are some good commercial brands that would be a good representative of how a traditional Absinthe should taste?
Ciao, good products are: Jade Edouard, Jade Nouvelle Orleans
To begin a less complex absinthe would perhaps be all right, you take the risk not to be able to appreciate them.
You could begin from: Blanche de Fougerolles, Verte de Fougerolle
Duplais Blanche, Lemercier Abisinthe 72, Un Emile White Fairy
Ciao.
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Marionette
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I would recommend anything from this site: http://www.absintheonline.com/acatalog/Absinthe.html
Try any of the Jade absinthes, Verte de Fougerolles, Brut d'Alambic, Eichelberger, any of the La Bleue absinthes, Doubs Mystique or Roquette. Just pick one!
Try any of the Jade absinthes, Verte de Fougerolles, Brut d'Alambic, Eichelberger, any of the La Bleue absinthes, Doubs Mystique or Roquette. Just pick one!
I tried Absinthe with a buddy a while ago (his parent's brought him back a bottle from Europe). I don't remember which brand, but it tasted pretty bad to me. VERY bitter, and very little flavor, even with the sugar cube and water deal. My question is, If I enjoy Jager (on the rocks) might I enjoy GOOD absinthe?
I may try my hand @ the Jager recipe on the forums, but there is so much more info and recipes on the topic of Absinthe to read up on. But now that my still is running, I don't want to buy an expensive bottle of absinthe to try
Jager addiction (at least I got bottles to fill):
I may try my hand @ the Jager recipe on the forums, but there is so much more info and recipes on the topic of Absinthe to read up on. But now that my still is running, I don't want to buy an expensive bottle of absinthe to try
Jager addiction (at least I got bottles to fill):
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bronzdragon
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Uncle Jesse
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same
I can't swallow most liqueurs.
I hear absinthe is nasty tasting but for some reason it's the trendy drink these days. I think it's mostly because of that HBO series "Carnivale" where the psychic circus guy drank it to improve his abilities. A crock of course, but it was a pretty good show and made people curious.
I hear absinthe is nasty tasting but for some reason it's the trendy drink these days. I think it's mostly because of that HBO series "Carnivale" where the psychic circus guy drank it to improve his abilities. A crock of course, but it was a pretty good show and made people curious.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.
It smells like Simple Green multipurpose cleaner to me, and the wife says it tastes like cough syrup too. Not into sweet girly drinks, which is why I thought I would like absinthe. I think I'll just try my hand @ the Jager recipe on the site...bronzdragon wrote:Jager tastes like Vicks 44D to me.
~r~