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Bingo, while I was out today I grabbed a ½ pound spool of solid 95/4.5/0.5 tin/copper/silver just to be on the safe side...along with a new tin of flux instead of using the old stuff I had.

Starting fresh and doing it right. No need to be cheap on what I plan on being my last builds for a while.

HookLine wrote:

Nightforce wrote:I guess I'm confused, is 95/5 tin/antimony okay to use in stills. One reply here seemed to say no and the other link seemed to say that it was only harmful if present in high levels of inhalation, unless I was mistaken.

Personally I would avoid it, especially as there are easily available and cheap alternatives that are some combination of tin, silver and copper. Should be able to find them at the hardware/plumbing or electronics store.

+1

While that solder mix is used for standard plumbing that plumbing isn't subjected to high temperature high ABV alcohol... Water at 140F is far less caustic than the ~170F+ alcohols that we deal with...

If you can find antimony free solder, use it... While antimony hasn't been proven carcinogenic and theoretically will only cause vomiting from high doses, and, yes, it's even used in drugs, I'd rest easier knowing my still was antimony free...

Could someone update the first page with information on how to solder stainless to copper. I had a hell of a time getting the stainless ferrule soldered to the copper pipe.

I read you could use HCl to clean the SS really good, heating the SS first, then to the copper, vise versa, then tried tinning the SS but it just beaded up and ran off; nothing worked. I'm guessing a higher silver content solder is needed to wet the SS. I'm using 95/4.5/0.5 tin/copper/silver solder and tried acid flux and normal flux to no avail. I ended up just un-soldering everything, tinning the copper pipe heavily, then cleaning the ferrule good, spinning it in the lathe with 240 grit sand paper to make some scratches for the solder to bite, then heating up the ferrule until it melted the solder so it would make a tight mechanical bond. It worked as it didn't leak when filling up the column full of water nor during several cycles of water tests but my fear is that the mechanical bond will fail in time due to stress.

Hey guys,
Just found some solder that contains tin, copper & silver with 5% zinc. Any thoughts on it's safety?

Brazing seems to be a big subject. I tried to come up with more answers, but may have landed up with just more questions. I am looking at connecting a copper fitting to the stainless lid on a corny keg for a small boiler. This is what I've found so far. I did look thru the RioGrande site and it's interesting. Their silver solders are probably not the best for us because of either high temperatures or a small spread between their solidus and liquidus temperatures. The larger this spread is the easier it will be to create a fillet on your joint. It is also not clear if their silver solders are suitable for stainless steel. They did have a high temp solder made with 14 kt gold that would cerainly look good. It's something like $3 US for an inch though.

So far the one that sounds the best is listed at the bottom of the page. I'm worn out from looking, I've been at this for hours now and don't know where you would actually get it. It has the lowest temp (roughly) and a very wide range so it should be easy for beginners to use. It's food grade.

For stainless, if the temperature is getting to 1100F and up you may lose it's corrosion resistance. So the low temp fillers are preferred. On the Harris site they mention a preferred flux to help prevent this.

Having read all this, I think I will put a 2" / 1.5" adapter into the 1.5" hole that took me two days to drill in the keg lid. I will use flour and water to seal the first couple of runs. Then I will embark on attempting to do the brazing. That way I can drink when it all turns to useless crap after I get out my MAPP torch...

Hope this is a little helpful.

From the Harris site:
http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/cons ... .asp?id=30
http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/cons ... fluxes.asp

Use with STAY-SILV White brazing flux on applications requiring normal heat. Use STAY-SILV Black flux on heavy parts, where localized overheating may occur, and where parts are heated over a prolonged period. Stay-Silv black flux is also suggested when brazing stainless steel.

Safety-Silv 30 - 1250 F, 677 C; Liquidus 1425 F, 774 C
The range between solidus and liquidus of 175 degrees is probably good for a novice and helps with making fillets.

This one is specifically mentioned as suitable for food industry. Other alloys mentioned good fillet building, so this one may be too watery for other then slip fit joints.

Safety-Silv 56 - Solidus 1145 F, 618 C; Liquidus 1205 F, 652 C
High silver content alloy; makes premium-quality brazes. Free-flowing with unsurpassed capillary attraction and deep penetration. Ductility is high, and corrosion-resistance is suitable for all but strong chemical applications. Offers highest elongation of silver brazing alloys. Suitable for use in the food processing industry. Silver color is excellent match for stainless steel and silverware applications. NSF Certified to NSF C2.


More info:
Here's a lits of a large number of standard silver solder alloys, their temperatures and notes on food and metal suitability. I haven't been able to digest it all yet.
http://www.welding-advisers.com/Brazing-stainless.html

http://www.lucasmilhaupt.com/default.aspx
For food use:
Braze 403, Braze 630, Braze 404, Braze 505, Braze 560

Braze 403 - BAg 4 1220F 660C 1435F 780C
Braze 404 1220F 660C 1580F 860C

Braze 505 Bag 24 1220 6601 305 705
for close tolerances

Braze 580 1120F 605C 1345F 730C Ag 57.5 Cu 32.5 Sn 7 Mn 3
For lowest temp brazing - sounds like what we should use....

I realize my post was short but still relevant(if I had a dollar for every time I said that). Saft silv 56 is what I was asking about. What about the zinc?

Kirko wrote:It is impossible to solder or braze without flux. When soldering, heat the metal only until the solder is starting to melt, don't over heat it.
When brazing, heat the metal ahead of where you want the silver to flow, solder does flow toward heat. If your braze or your solder is beading up and rolling off, either the joint is dirty or the object not hot enough. As soon as some of the solder has melted and flowed onto the surface, watch that area and use it as a temperature guide, keep the metal just at the point where it looks like mercury, continue soldering but let the metal cool just to the point where the solder solidifies, then heat a little more, going between the flow and solidus point, back and forth between the two, this insures you are staying within a reasonable range. The 2 most common problems with soldering or brazing are over heating and joint contamination. You can't get a joint too clean.
Stop solder is a paste made of yellow ochre, you are better off not using stop flow because it is too easy to contaminate the area you want it to flow. A paste of brick dust or ground tripoli does the same thing. Carbon can actually act as a flux under the right conditions so carbon is not the best stop flow. It's best to just work clean, control your heat and make the solder or brazing material go where you want it.

It's not impossible to solder or braze without flux but it is impractical outside of an industrial or lab setting. You would need to have the items in a vacuum chamber and use a magnetic induction heat source to do it. Totally impractical for us here but not really impossible, per se.

Hi all,

Do you think this solder would be ok to use?

http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.store ... View/N2630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I know there is a reference to electronics in there but the composition has no lead in it.

Thanks

For me there are already 2 strikes against it.

twice the price for a compareable,,,,,,,"Oately styled" lead free plumbing solder.
And,,,,,,,,,it does not appear to be an,,,,,,,,Oately styled plumbing solder.

Might be fine but why not a more trusted product?

You want "plumbing" solder, not "electronics" solder... Also want it bigger than 1mm diameter... More like 1/8"...

Thanks guys, but as far as it's composition I'm guessing that it would be ok.

I'm going to go look for plumbers solder, but our Hardware store Bunnings here in Oz don't seem to have much info on the stick solders in the plumbing section.

Any Oz people know where you can buy relatively cheap lead free solder?

How about this stuff:- http://www.bernzomatic.com/products/sol ... older.aspx

Bunnings have it. Look in the tool section near the propane touches. There is also flux to suit.

Hey Mozzie,

Yeah I saw that stuff, it's as dear as poison. I found another one at bunnings in the plumbing section called Aquasafe 100. It's $35 for 500g roll ! I still need to buy the fulx though, however My dad has some "Bakers Soldering Fluid" flux and I was going to use that. Would that be ok? Websites say it can be used on copper.

Cheers,

Looking at the MSDS of Bakers Soldering Fluid it doesn't look to bad, just a corrosive liquid, no carcinogens.
Yeah that other solder does seem expansive but you don't really use that much of it.

Yeah going to go to bunnings today and have another look.

I'm getting a SS Still made and just wanted to do a bit of soldering on copper for tinkering reasons.

The Bernzomatic one I think from memory is about $25 / 100g so for the extra $10 its worth getting the other one.

I is very possible to solder copper to stainless without expensive solder. Not sure how to copy the url but here i s the text:

by newerbrewer » Mon May 24, 2010 2:16 pm

Just wanted to let everyone know that it is possible, and pretty easy to solder stainless with plumbing solder and propane. You will not get the strength of a weld, or anywhere close but it will fasten 2 pieces of metal together leak free if done right. Here is what I did:

Materials - Auto body sandpaper (or any other i suppose) fine grit, Harris Stay-Clean Liquid Flux - important that you buy the liquid not the paste, regular lead free plumbing solder (I use oateys).

1) Get your surfaces impeccably clean. Clean, then lightly sand
2) Apply flux to areas you want solder. I use a q-tip
3) Heat with propane torch
4) Re-Apply some more flux
5) Solder like you would copper

See the Harris site on how to clean and be careful. Really, be safe. Good luck but the above method works like a hot damned...

Brew.

Has anyone seen and/or tried this product?

http://www.solder-it.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
or
http://www.solderit.com/productspastes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I picked up a tube at canadian tire on sale for 5 bucks and heres what it says:

use with: Copper, Brass, Stainless Steel, Nickle, and Bronze
Says it 5 times stronger than solder ie. tensile strength of 10,000 to 25,000 PSI
Flows freely at 430 degrees F
Contains no lead, cadmium or antimony
anti-toxic, conforms to pure food laws
requires no flux

This product would seem to be an answer to all the problems with silver soldering. ie. the heat required, copper to stainless, food safe, ease of use ie. one handed instead of two

I am planning on using this product on a new still build unless anyone can show me why not to...

How do you apply the stuff? Sounds easy if you just squirt it in, heat it up a bit and let it stick!

I would suppose all the same joint cleaning is required though.

Centar wrote: I am planning on using this product on a new still build unless anyone can show me why not to...

Can't comment on the product. Never seen it before and never used anything like it. All I've ever done is "old fashioned" clean the copper, apply the flux and solder together. Not to say it can't be done easier but . . . That last line in your post will toss your name in the "Darwin Award" sweepstakes. All winners are awarded post-mortem.

Not the right mindset moving forward.

The folks here will "generally" (and I use the term rather loosely) stick to what has been tested and proven safe for utilization in distillation. To ass-u-me something is safe untill proven otherwise is taking a big risk.

good stillin (and keep reading)
WW

Centar wrote: picked up a tube at canadian tire...
anti-toxic, conforms to pure food laws...

Canadians cant even tell Bacon from Ham... ( I kid, I kid...)

The write up sounds okay, but Im still not sure why they would reinvent the wheel. I would dig a little deeper and see if something doesnt come up.

Contains no lead, cadmium or antimony
I am planning on using this product on a new still build unless anyone can show me why not to...[/quote]

what is not in a product in this application is not the most important question you should ask.
what is in it is what you will pour down your throat. cob

and to think this was my attempt to use a "solder" instead of JB weld which so far also seems safe...just not tested....maybe I should be a Ginny pig here and as for the Darwin awards... I already have reproduced...

Thank you all for the tips and tricks here. I've had nothing but success. Cant wait to try some flanges to 2".

You really want to keep the heat on the fitting so the solder gets "sucked" into the fitting by the heat, If you heat just the pipe a lot of times you will end up with what plumbers call a wedding band fitting that is solder just around the joint not in it, this joint will fail after time

Any other solder advice for trying to solder the Boka plates into the column? I'm ok at sweating copper fittings using the great information above, but had alot more trouble trying to "weld" with silver solder to attach my plates and fill gaps in my slots It seems that the solder is either solid, or it hits liquid level and drops right through the gap or starts loosening everything else because it is too hot! Is it really difficult or impossible to fill a gap with solder, or do I just need more practice? Which part should I be heating when trying "weld" the plates in. Also, can I try to solder again after the pipe has been overheated and discolored? Thanks.

FYI - I had a friend who does stained glass work and is good at soldering give me a hand and it worked much better. I had way too much heat from my torch and my flux was old and probably not that great. He used a pinpointed flame to gradually heat around the fittings, and then in areas it wasn't sticking, he didn't hesitate to flux while hot and try again and it would stick. Problem solved.

Wow, another read that I should have seen 3 months ago. Great advice and I'm sure I'll get to try again in the near future.

Anybody have a preferred flux they use. If so, can you tell me? Thanks!

OK. So i bought the wrong flux, It came in a pack with my tin/silver/copper Solder, but the solder balled up and rolled off the material like water on oil. I will try again with an Acid Flux in liquid form, not a creamy, off the shelf flux... I gotta learn the hard way or I dont learn.