Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment

[Jimbo]

Baked, ya that would be nice, sticking a flashlight, my eyeball and a stick with a brush taped to the end down through that 2" hole on the top and whittling and scrubbing shite off that long curvy element is nothing short of a royal pain in the arse.

Aqua, the difference between this run and last was night and day. Weird. last run is crystal clear, nice and grainy, tasty not a sign of scorch. This one is brown and burnt. Same power setting, same recipe.

Yes going forward Ill go lower on power and make sure the element is nice and clean. More soon.

[Jimbo]

Mixed up another round, and ran a spirit run on the scorched shite to see what comes of it. For the record, DONT BOTHER trying to redistill anythign that scorches. The burnt flavor comes right through a distillation.

[FullySilenced]

Wonder if carbon would take the burn out... couldn't hurt

FS

[Jimbo]

Its worth a shot, Ive got 5 quarts of crap sittin here otherwise. Is that a brew shop item?

[FullySilenced]

Jimbo activated carbon most brew shops have it or Walmarts has it in the aquarium section... is the activated carbon for the tank filter.

There is a section about activated carbon filtering on the home site: http://homedistiller.org/distill/polish" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://homedistiller.org/activated_book1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


making your own

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=12697


It will take the whiskey taste away and go to more neutral or to full neutral over time...

hope this helps

FS

[engunear]

You can get the burnt flavor out with a 2m fractionating column with a high reflux ratio. But what a pain. Maybe there was some left that other noses would pick, but it seemed pretty clean to me. And you get straight ethanol, not whiskey. There are easier ways to make ethanol.

Having had exactly this problem with about 5 batches in a row using high rye grain bills, I finally got a steam injection system working. Its discussed here:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... n#p7132963

[Jimbo]

thanks guys. Ill give the charcoal a shot. neutral would be fine. With my potstill, neutral is in short supply, can always use it for a pantydropper or lemoncello. I distilled an ag 4 times to get as close as I could to neutral for the absinthe I made. Luckily there's enough crazy flavors to hide the little bit of grain flavor remaining.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

Jimbo I see you recently switched from propane to electric, If you were still running on gas what precautions would you take to prevent scorching? Would you let the mash clear completely and rack it a couple times before you run it?

I usually run my sweetfeed a lil dirty (no grain just a few floaties). I just let it settle rack it in to the boiler, heat it slow and put some copper boil chips in the boiler to keep anything from sticking on the bottom.

Do you think I can get by with that on this recipe?

I picked up the remainder of my wheat flour today and tracking numbers say my enzymes will be here tomorrow so hopefully tomorrow nite Ill be trying my hand at mashing this.

If things don't work out with the enzymes can I cool the mash not pitch the yeast and keep it refrigirated until I can get some malt (a week tops) then bring it back up to mashing temps? or should I just throw 12 or 14lbs sugar in it and let it ferment and then start over with new flour when I get some malted grain.

[Jimbo]

With gas I would leave the still head off, run real low flame and stir until it comes to a boil, then put the still head on.

The enzymes will work. If they dont work at high temp, just wait for the temp to drop to 150 then add them again.

Good luck, hope all works out well for ya. Dont forget to aerate it real good when its cool and before you pitch yeast. Whip it up into a froth. the yeast need the oxygen to get started strong. If you dont have a wort chiller, point a fan at the barrel/bucket and it will help it cool by morning.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

Alright Im just finishing up waiting on temps to come down so I can pitch my yeast. Here's how it went for me. I decided to go with 10 gal water and 20lb flour because my biggest fermenter is 12.5 gal and I can't separate into two fermenters and maintain proper temps on both. I'm not equipped just yet. So I boiled my water for 15 mins and added it to the mash tun. I then stirred in the flour 5lbs at a time until it was all as dissolved as I could get it. Shut the lid and let it sit for an hour at 182° stirring every 10 mins. I did add a little enzyme but it must of denatured pretty quick because it didn't thin much at all. At this point the viscosity is about the same as extra thick sausage gravy. After an hour I opened it up and stirred about 30 mins with the fan going to get down to 151° I then sprinkled 3 tsp of amylase and started stirring again in about 5 mins it started thinning out Ishut the lid and let it sit for another hour stirring ooccasionally. After that hour it had thinned a lot but was still really thick so I added 3 more tsp amylase stirred it in well and shut it to sit and cool over nite. Admittedly I was frustrated and it was really late so I went to bed. Slept about 4 hours got up and started back at it. Temp had dropped to 130° and glad to say it was considerably thinner about the same as turkey gravy now. So I went back to sleep for two more hours and woke again. Temp was down to 110° so I stirred in my gluco and did an iodine test just for curiosity. It still has some starch it but has a sweet flavor and the change in viscosity from start to this point shows that conversion has happened albeit it wasn't 100% I'm pretty satisfied for my first shot at AG. As I type its still cooling. I'm going to pitch the yeast momentarily.

Jimbo I have one question. What was the viscosity of yours like when you pitched the yeast?

[Jimbo]

Sounds good. Whip it up good, thats the messy part. A drill paint stirrer works good, cover the bucket with a towel so it dont splash all over.

Consistency is like a thin slurry, warm turkey gravy, 10W30. It thins more from fermenting. My last batch has been going a week, not done yet, damn cold weather here has my basement in low 60's. I got a little ceramic heater pointed at the barrel today and its starting to bubble again. Im using US-05, so it will finish at this cold temp, but it will take a damn long time (2-3 weeks) so Im helping it along some with the heater.

Just remember with these crazy experiments, sometimes they dont work for one reason or 7, its just how it goes, like how mine scorched last round. Dont let it frustrate you if something goes wrong. See if you can figure out what might have happened and jump back on the horse. For whatever reason, Ive had more batches of bourbon go south on me this winter than have worked. This is after they worked fine last winter and all through the summer. I think I have it nailed and am running another batch today that fermented out real nice. Can be a stuborn hobby sometimes, just dont let it frustrate ya. Sounds like your batch is going well so far! Good luck.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

Yea this has been the coldest winter I can remember here. Normally we might get one night of single digit temps all winter. Last week it didn't get above 20 all week during the day and was pushing zero most nites. My basement has been staying about the same as yours high 50s and low 60s at night been trying by best to keep my feremnts warm every way I can. Well I will add most of my frustration was towards my drill and lack of battery life the mash its self did pretty much exactly as it should. But after a 10 hour shift working and then the couple hours heating water and mixing sludge i m sure a lot of the frustration was from being tired. Just pitched the yeast and now its time to start getting ready for another 10 hours at work I'llkeep ya posted on the reuslts.


BTW a big thanks for inspiring me to at least try something AG. Your way with words made it sound easier than it was but it still was not as bad and scary as I had in my head.

[MDH]

The best thing to do is make Vodka until it warms up - just use a yeast like EC1118 high pitch rate.

When you get those first 70 degree days in may you'll be able to make some more whiskey like things.

[jarheadshiner]

Hey Jimbo,

Quick question on the calculator you use. I plan on using malted white wheat to mash with. Would I put 25 lbs in for the grain (flour) to find the striking water temp, or do I need to include the malted grain in there as well? Or should I just dump boiling water on the flour, stir until down to 150 or so, and then mash in?

Would there be any advantage to using more than 5 lbs of the malted wheat? Say 8 or 10 lbs? Was just thinking that you said if you used malted grains instead of the enzymes, that you suggest using a couple more gallons of water to keep the "slurry" manageable.

First go at an all grain so bear with me and the newbie questions. Just wanna make sure I'm on the right track and get a good conversion and a decent ABV%.

Thanks

[Jimbo]

hey jarhead no problem ask anything you want I'm happy to help. Using malt to mash I would go 13 gallons for the flour and another gallon for every 2 pounds of malt. Try 2 pounds after you stir in the boiling water into the flour to try to get some early enzyme action and then when it drops to 150 add another 5 lbs or so.

[Jimbo]

Some other thoughts to help ensure your success. When I ran this first, I first ran 8 gallons of the more clear wash off the top of the ferment. Then in a second run added the 5 gallons thick sludge to about 4 gallons of hot backset from run 1. I think that hot backset helped avoid scorching to the element. In the last run, I added 13g, everything, to the still cold, and ran at same heat and it scorched. Its just a theory, but that cold slurry might be more prone to stick to the hot element.

What I would do Jarhead, And especially since youll end up with 15+ gallons, too much for 1 run anyway, Is split it up to 2 runs and add 4 gallons boiling water to the 7.5 wash, and run, twice. Very slow. It will thin down the slurry, and heat it up, hopefully avoiding scorch. Run slow and stir until its up to temp.

Ive got 13 gallons fermenting now, I plan to do this also, with boiling water, and splitting to 2 runs.

PS: You shoudl do a spirit run anyway, so even with the lower ABV strips, youll still get up to where you need to be in ABV in the spirit run.

[jarheadshiner]

Thanks for all of the advice Jimbo. I really appreciate it.

The pot I'm gonna be boiling the strike water in is only 11 gallons, but I have another 5 gallon pot that I can use to heat the rest up on the stove at the same time.

I heat with propane so hopefully if I bring the temp on the boiler up slow it won't scorch. My keg boiler is unmodified so not gonna be able to stir on the heat up. What I may do is use the 11 gallon pot to heat the mash up, so I can stir it, then transfer it to the boiler. Be a little extra work but might be worth it to keep from scorching.

What do ya think?

[Jimbo]

Just leave the still head off, and reach in with a stick and stir. Then when its about to a boil put the head on.

[jarheadshiner]

Just leave the still head off, and reach in with a stick and stir. Then when its about to a boil put the head on.

10-4

[jarheadshiner]

UPS just dropped off The Cereal Killer. Woohoo!

Might be doing this today or tomorrow.

Will let y'all know how it goes.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

Well I havent updated on my experiment since I started so here goes. This has definately been a learning experience. Mainly learning that Im really not quite equipped well enough to do AG at this volume yet. My BOP is not quite big enough (only 7gal), my insulated mash tun isn't quite big enough either (only 12 gal). When I started this it seemed to go well, but I had a feeling that it wasn't 100% on par. As I posted before my steps I took and how that all went I wont repost that. After I pitched my yeast things were looking good when I came home from work that night I checked it and was happy to find it had taken off like a rocket, so much so that it pushed the lid off my fermenter and had made a nice gooy foamy mess all over my floor. I cleaned that up and then pulled a lil out to another fermenter to keep it from happening again. The next morning both were working great. Then later that night both had started to slow down. On the following day both had completly stopped. So I checked the PH it was good, temps had been well maintained everything well sanitized and there were no signs of an infection. The only conclusion I could come to was that it was finished. I pulled a sample and tasted it and it still tasted almost exactly the same as when I pitched the yeast. I really think that I didnt get complete starch conversion using only the enzymes. Matter of fact I know it wasnt complete conversion because I iodine tested it before I pitched the yeast. But I did think that I got enough that it would ferment just with a lower final ABV. I didnt take any gravity readings because I broke my hydrometer a couple days before and honestly as thick as this stuff was I dont know that it would be accurate since I didnt get complete conversion. So when it finished after 2 days and I really couldnt taste any alcohol in the mash I bit the bullet, faced reality and dumped it rather than wasting more money on propane to run it and more time on something that didnt appear to have enough alcohol to make that worth my while. I could have been completly wrong and wasted alot of materials in vain, but my gut feeling was it wasnt going to end very well so I just chalked it up as a loss, but not without learning a alot in the process so not really a true loss. In the last year since I started this hobby I havent lost a single ferment so I knew it was coming. But tax money will be coming soon and I plan on upgrading my mashing equipment so I will be trying again soon. I have also been working on malting some red wheat and that is going just as it should. I will make a seperate new post about that when I get all my pics resized and ready.

Thanks again for all the information and when I make the step back to AG I will keep yall updated.

[Jimbo]

Thats a bummer Rod, sorry to hear.

This is a kooky oddity recipe. I suggest for your first AG whiskey, make a mash with 100% malt. Either wheat (my fav) or any blend of wheat, barley and rye malts. Very very simple. 2 lbs malt per gallon. 157F strike water. wrap it up for an hour. Cool and pitch yeast. No cooking grains, no weird slurry, no headaches.

[Halfbaked]

Jimbo where are we on the 4th stripper run and that spirit run. 100 lb of flour and your successes and failures on running the muck, how much low wines did you end up with? I think it was 1.8 and 2.6 per 25 lb respectivley.

[aquavita]

Crazy thought...

I wonder if you could use a magnetic stirrer - or would the non-magnetic SS pot block the force to "spin" the ceramic pole?

Again would possily only work with internal heating element....

[Richard7]

Well here is an update on what I was trying. The wheat flour sugarhead. It fermented out great and really dry. I let it clear in the cold. 19 days fermenting 2 days clearing in the cold.
when I distilled it last weekend it smelled great. Just took my first taste tonight.
All I can say is I will not use wheat flour in a sugarhead again! I have 3 gallons that is going through the still again! I could drink it if I was desperate but I'm not there yet!
I want to say that what I did was completely different from what Jimbo is doing. He is making the alcohol out of the wheat, I was only going for wheat flavor.
I think the best way to describe the flavor I made would be flour flavor! I realize with malting and such the profile could be totally different.

[Jimbo]

You ran it once? Interesting, note taken, dont use flour for flavor in sugarheads. Hopefully you will like it better after a spirit run. I generally run all AG's and sugarheads twice. Let us know if any improvement.

I havent run the spirit run on this stuff yet, still got another batch to strip, but I have tasted the low wines I stripped. And they taste good. Like a typical low wines should taste So i can only guess that it was the unconverted raw starches since you didnt mash in for starch conversion? Dunno, sorry man. Wish'd it would have worked better. But dont lose hope until you do the spirit run. And then age it for a while.

[Jimbo]

Ran the last stripper of this today. No scorching, no problems. Smells good. Ill be combining and running a spirit run shortly. More soon, Jimbo.

[Jimbo]

Finally ran the spirit run on this today while watching USA Hockey kick Slovenia's ass. (Apologies to anyone following this and waiting patiently to see if its worthwhile). Just finished making the cuts and jarring it up on oak.

Gotta say, this recipe is simple and delicious. The keep cut is really tasty, grainy but not a flour flavor as Richard described when unmalted flour was used in a sugarhead. I was a little nervous going into this after reading that, but the low wines seemed fine so just had to wait and see. Its nice real nice. Not unlike other wheat heavy all grains Ive done.

Here's the stats: (Note I ran 3 batches, each with 25 lb flour, but one of them scorched, so only was able to keep 2)

50 lbs flour, mashed at 185 with Sebmalt HT enzymes, and again at 145 with Sebmalt Super enzymes. No other grains or malt.
5 gal stripped at 30%, added another 1/2 gallon water to keep my element under liquid at the 3g mark, watching take qty closely!!!
Spirit run take was 2.25 gallons before I turned off (too close to 3g element level)
Keep cut was 1.20 gallon at 71% ALC. About 53 percent of the total spirit run.

Got it watered down to 62% and aging on one new stick of charred oak, and 1 spent stick that soaked in sherry/chianti/apple brandy blend soak jar.

I will happily repeat this recipe using malt for conversion when I run out of these enzymes a friend graciously gave me.

Cheers!

JImbo

[ga flatwoods]

Next trip to Sam's is for popcorn liquor. Did you forget? Man a fidy lbs bag sam sug wuda made a hellofalot mo!

[Jimbo]

PS: That worked out to 4.4lbs of flour per 80 proof fifth. At $6.99 a bag thats $1.23 a fifth for all grain. Cheapest way about it Ive found yet, not that I really care either, but I do keep track, for grins.

Makes me wonder if any craft distilleries are using flour. Gotta believe 500 lb totes of it are damn cheap.