4" glass bubble plate column

[acfixer69]

What did ya see there in the xtra180 degrees that the standard peep site dont see. If something was to be seen you would be the guy I would trust saw it. Glassers are fun Im sure glad it is working great.

AC

[shadylane]

A 360 view, lighted from all sides is the claim to fame on a glasser.
A 2" or 3" sight glass will let you see enough to run a plated column.
But a glasser will let you see everything for experiments.
I've experimented enough, there's now a full still charge of low-wines.
Figure, It's time to shit or get off the pot.

[thecroweater]

a difference for sure I got 3" sighties and have never liked 2" ones to hard to see whats going on, with threes you can stand back and know how ya girl is running at an instance

[shadylane]

Thought I'd post a pic of a hi-tech cooling water control system.
It works much better than it looks. I can shut off the water without changing the valve settings.
Edited:
Just to give an idea how much water flow is needed.
The reflux valve is 1/8" I don't have to turn the needle valve more than a 3/4 turn.
It takes several turns before it's fully open.

[shadylane]

Here's a pic of the latest plate mod.
This one doesn't flood, boil the liquid out of the downcomer or piss in the downcomer on the plate below it.
At the moment, I'm running the column at 1 gallon a hour.
And the boiler is charged with all grain low-wines

[shadylane]

The run is getting into the tails.
I set the power and reflux at the beginning of the run and didn't change it.
And the output is now down to a broken trickle.

[cranky]

Very nice Shady
I see I have been missing a lot lately
I love running glass, there is just something about being able to see everything going on. My wife says I watch mine like it is a stripper pole dancing. I use a Graham reflux condenser made from a 48" section of 1/2" CSST I found it has better controllability than the more common shotgun condenser I now use on my packed column. I like seeing the condensate dripping back down the condenser rather than just pouring out of tubes.

[skow69]

Congratulations, shady. That's beautiful work. I love the look of the single big cap with the downcomer in it. Did you calculate the size of the cap or eyeball it? What is the depth of your fluid bed now, 3/4 inch or so? I don't know enough about plates yet to know which parameters are critical.

I am also a believer in the advantage of having full visual access to the goings-on inside a still. Do you plan to shoot a video? I'd love to watch it run.

[shadylane]

Thanks for the compliments, I've thought about posting video's but don't have a camera.
It would be nice if someone would post video's showing mistakes and how to cure or avoid them.
I still don't know the best way to build or run a plated column.
But I'm getting pretty good at making the mistakes

[shadylane]

Did you calculate the size of the cap or eyeball it?

Some of the dimensions are based on the size of scrap tubing I had.
The rest was based on guessing.

What is the depth of your fluid bed now, 3/4 inch or so?

Based on the height of the downcomer the "fluid bed" should be 13/16"
While it's running, there's so much boiling, splashing and bubbles it's hard to say how deep the fluid bed is.

I don't know enough about plates yet to know which parameters are critical.

That makes two of us. One thing I'm almost sure of, on a 4" plate. 1/2" dia. downcomer bad, 3/4" better.
One other thought. On a big single plate of this design. The downcomer is higher than the upcomer.
For better or worst, that seems backwards from normal.

[acfixer69]

Something to think about in that statement jed. By design with the downcomer coming through the cap Think about it how could the upcomer be higher. It cant and to keep the tray content from draining back to the lower plate vapor speed has to be increased to overcome that. In that case the 1/2" downcomer will or maybe bad or to small. Depending on the cap resistence to flow 3/4" may or maynot be best.

[skow69]

You mean like this?

I would think you might have to run it a little hotter to overcome the deeper fluid bed, but I've never run plates. What happens if your bubble cap is too small?
EDIT: What happens if it's too big?

[shadylane]

I tried what the pic shows.
With the bath that deep, liquid wanted to drain down through the upcomer,
I had to run the plates too hard to avoid that.
Hard enough there was liquid entrainment into the plate above.
And the plate appeared to be blowing bubbles through the bath, instead of boiling it, for redistillation.

[shadylane]

Thought I'd post a pic of a hi-tech cooling water control system.
It works much better than it looks. I can shut off the water without changing the valve settings.
Edited:
Just to give an idea how much water flow is needed.
The reflux valve is 1/8" I don't have to turn the needle valve more than a 3/4 turn.
It takes several turns before it's fully open.

Edited: I had a brain fart the valve is 1/4"

[skow69]

Gotcha. You found the limit.

[shadylane]

The big single plate was definitely a learning experience
Now I'm thinking about going to the other extreme.
How small can I make a bubble cap?
How many of them will fit on a 4" plate.
And what's in my scrap pile to make it out of.

[shadylane]

Here's a though.
Make several long skinny caps out of split open tubing.
Each cap has more than one upcomer.

[shadylane]

Here's the beginning of another hairbrained idea

[shadylane]

Here's another pic or two
That might make some sense out of my confusion.
Well maybe not

[shadylane]

Here's one possible arrangement for the long skinny caps.
Figure if I'm going to waste time and copper, it should be different.

[acfixer69]

I've seen that style cap on some petro chem application still columns and thought to try it myself. Upcommer was my thought. Do it like you are or use a oval to follow the cap. Looking forward to the results you fined

AC

[thecroweater]

I see plate flow issues with this design, the caps themselves will act as weirs. You will not get a consistent result across the tray I think

[shadylane]

I hadn't thought of that

[LWTCS]

I see plate flow issues with this design, the caps themselves will act as weirs. You will not get a consistent result across the tray I think

That's a great point. But I wonder at this scale how much that really would affect plate behavior? I could absolutely see that happening on a huge commercial system. Two of these systems to compare would be a great learning tool!

I'm sure the entire community would love- you- long- time Shady if you would take a hit for the team and test Crow's observation

[acfixer69]

This is the plate I was referring to. Notice downcomer dia. in comparison to plate. Must be heat input and take off rate after stabilizing. Not a fuel maker but looks deeper than I run.

AC

[pfshine]

Just wondering here why have multiple upcommer in there, why not one rectangular one.

[googe]

Good stuff shady . I to have thought about these in the past AC. Good to see you having a go shady, good luck!. I think on our scale, most flow issues etc are redundant, all the experiments I've done with plates rarely yield any difference, except the flap plate.

[shadylane]

Well I built it, and it don't look right to me.
Should have used rectangular upcomers

[bbok]

Well done Shady. Great skills! I ran across glycol drying columns with some odd ball shapes. Plates were 8' across mind you

[shadylane]

Well done Shady. Great skills!

To be honest, everything about the plate looks wrong to me.
I figure it ain't going to work very good.
But, I'll run it and see.
My friend Bubba, said "it looked like a hogs ass sown up with a log chain"
Told him "if the hogs ass was sown up, you wouldn't be here"