Basic Distillation 101

[KellyD]

Should the backset still have an ABV? I am wondering if I am leaving spirit behind because when I was "done" the backset still have 5% when I measured.

[Deplorable]

Should the backset still have an ABV? I am wondering if I am leaving spirit behind because when I was "done" the backset still have 5% when I measured.

ABV of your backset is determined by when you shut off your still. If you stop stripping at 5% output, then your leaving alcohol in the pot. Its up to you on when to stop collecting.
Somebody smarter than me will be along shortly to correct me if I am talking out of school.

[still_stirrin]

If you run the still until you get 0%ABV at the spout, then there is likely no alcohol left in the boiler. But then again, you’d be past the tails and well into the “sweet water”. In fact you’d be to the point that just water and acids and other heavy alkaloids would remain in the boiler, that is, those constituents with a boiling point well above water’s BP.

If you stop collecting when the spout is at 10%, then there is not much good left in the boiler. Often, I stop collecting when the spout is 10% to 12% and whats left behind in the boiler is quite acidic. So, if you’re using yours to sour a mash, be careful and don’t add too much. Approach the target from the “too little side” rather than “overshoot” your target.
ss

[shadylane]

Should the backset still have an ABV? I am wondering if I am leaving spirit behind because when I was "done" the backset still have 5% when I measured.

Sounds like the stripping run might have ended too early.
The proof hydrometer wasn't accurate at the lower end of it's scale.
The backset was warmer than the proof hydrometer was calibrated for.
Or a combination of all the above

[NZChris]

Should the backset still have an ABV? I am wondering if I am leaving spirit behind because when I was "done" the backset still have 5% when I measured.

If your backset truly is 5% ABV, you are doing something very wrong, but without a lot more info. about your run and how you arrived at the 5% number, we could be guessing all day and never get close to what the problem is. I suggest you start a new thread for it.

[Saltbush Bill]

Most washes are around 10% ....if you stopped at 5% you left a lot of booze behind......me thinks your numbers are wrong or you got confused by using the wrong gadget to measure abv.
Run it till it feels oily betwixt the fingers .....you wont leave any thing behind that way.

[Rrmuf]

Thanks. This is useful for a beginner. ... We all have to walk before we can run and some of the vitriol in other topics in response to fair questions is unhelpful.

[SGB]

If I do multiple distillation spirit runs of the same spirit, is methanol also being created and the same ratio of foreshot thrown out?
In other words, let's say I am doing a spirit run of UJSSM on my pot still. I throw out the first foreshot, then collect everything down to 10% then run it again for a second time or perhaps even a third time
Is methanol going to be in those second and third
distillation foreshots?

[Corsaire]

Methanol isn't created in the still but in the ferment. And you don't chuck all of it out with the fores, it's smeared throughout the run.

The good news is that ujssm (or most ferments actually) don't produce much methanol at all. And the natural 'antidote' to methanol is... ethanol. So don't worry about it.

Now on what to do with fores, some chuck them every strip and spirit run. Me, I collect everything from the strip and only make a fores cut on the spirit run. Do what feels best to you.

[Rrmuf]

I had the same question and am discarding a 125ml each run, more out of an abundance of caution than anything. I also figured that I am probably getting rid of strong heads anyways. Understood that one cannot assume that ALL methanol / acetates, etc comes in the foreshots, but there is more of a concentration of it there, correct?

[SGB]

Thank you Corsaire!

[NZChris]

I had the same question and am discarding a 125ml each run, more out of an abundance of caution than anything. I also figured that I am probably getting rid of strong heads anyways. Understood that one cannot assume that ALL methanol / acetates, etc comes in the foreshots, but there is more of a concentration of it there, correct?

Not according to an EC study.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 33&t=40606

[Rrmuf]

I had the same question and am discarding a 125ml each run, more out of an abundance of caution than anything. I also figured that I am probably getting rid of strong heads anyways. Understood that one cannot assume that ALL methanol / acetates, etc comes in the foreshots, but there is more of a concentration of it there, correct?

Not according to an EC study.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 33&t=40606

Thanks Chris. THAT is useful information! and I understood that it was a smear I recall an Odin post about "Why cut heads" or something thereabouts which I took to heart and as such I have been cutting out very little in the heads. (I still discard fores religiously.... but I am starting to question why after this read. I still will .... but maybe just out of religious fervor )

So, the takeaways are:
1. Don't be too afraid of heads ( but discard foreshots if for no reason except out of respect to the Gods )
2. Be more mindful with cutting tails
3. Maybe reprocessing tails is not a great idea, but at the least, keep it to a single generation of redistilling
4. Be especially careful when getting to fruit-based washes.

Admittedly simplistic but Fair enough?

[NZChris]

My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.

Commercial products that taste of heads give me a headache, but I don't know what particular components cause it.

[JesseMarques]

My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.

Commercial products that taste of heads give me a headache, but I don't know what particular components cause it.

Too much alcohol would cause it because it turns to acetaldehyde in our system. Head tasting products have higher amount of components that becomes other toxins in our body, headaches from hangover generally is just dehydration because of liver trying to clean all up

[NZChris]

My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.

Commercial products that taste of heads give me a headache, but I don't know what particular components cause it.

Too much alcohol would cause it because it turns to acetaldehyde in our system. Head tasting products have higher amount of components that becomes other toxins in our body, headaches from hangover generally is just dehydration because of liver trying to clean all up

I don't believe that. Some Whiskys give me a headache before I finish the glass. The last Scotch I sampled, two fingers woke me up with a headache around 2am. I've read many posts from distillers about about the differences in hangovers from home distilled products compared to commercial, plus my experience has been the same. A friend of mine recently told me he and another mate got totally trashed on the whiskey I gave him and they were both amazed at how well they felt in the morning, dehydrated, but not the banging headache they usually get from whiskey.

[JesseMarques]

I don't believe that. Some Whiskys give me a headache before I finish the glass. The last Scotch I sampled, two fingers woke me up with a headache around 2am. I've read many posts from distillers about about the differences in hangovers from home distilled products compared to commercial, plus my experience has been the same. A friend of mine recently told me he and another mate got totally trashed on the whiskey I gave him and they were both amazed at how well they felt in the morning, dehydrated, but not the banging headache they usually get from whiskey.

Some compounds are absorbed, metabolized and/or expeled in different speeds, some are prety fast. Some compounds can cause headaches immediately (acetone does), body hydration is a factor, just as each one's body

[Saltbush Bill]

Heads and fores cause hangovers from my experience.....get rid of them an you also throw out the hangover.

[SGB]

My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.

So it's OK the re-run or re-distill after its been on wood?
Because I have some late head early tail on wood but didn't like the taste. I was wondering if it's OK to run it with another wash or feints run.

[NZChris]

I thought that was what I said. What are you confused about?

BTW, I do my All Feints runs with the wood in the boiler.

[SGB]

Sorry.. I was just reconfirming what you posted. Sorry I just didn't know. I was afraid I'd ruin the worm if I introduced wood. I was worried that tannins or elements of resin would stick to the sides of the copper pipe and thus forever influence the flavor of everything being run.

I even tried a Google Search for "adding wood chip in boiler to feints run " and couldn't find any info.

[Rrmuf]

My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.

Commercial products that taste of heads give me a headache, but I don't know what particular components cause it.

Thanks. I do run 20l or so into usually 10-12 jars in fractions of 250ml for the 1st 2-4 jars, 500ml for where I am clearly into hearts, then back to 250ml into the tails .... until I get tired and just put late tails into a single jar .

Thanks for the discussion by all.

Cheers,

[Seanjohn19]

Im very excited about this new hobby and there's so much good information on the site. Thanks to people like you

[ohturoey]

Thanks for all the good information,
just have some thoughts about the cuts,
made a few quick runs in a fractionating collum still, abv ca 80 % dumped the foreshots
then later diluted several runs down to 25-30 % and ran it again, do I still have to dump foreshots or is it all more or less gone,
came out around 90% abv

Thanks

[Sporacle]

If you've taken foreshots on stripping runs then have done a spirit run based on those low wines then technically no, the foreshots are as you stated more or less gone (they are present though the entire spirit, just a smaller percentages). I am a total amateur at this, I still take a fairly large portion of early heads on my spirit run and discard it (usually the first jar) reasoning on my part is that it never makes it to my final cut and I have a large volume of fients already. Having said that this is my method for a pot set up, yours will be different.
Basically it comes down to taste

[Rrmuf]

... Of course, stripping runs all reduce the foreshots considerably, but there is always some smearing. SO I would say every run is an opportunity to take more out at the beginning. I make Gin and my usually practice involved 3 distillations and usually goes like this: I dump a healthy foreshot cut in the stripping run, a healthy foreshots cut in my neutral spirit run, and a minimal foreshots run in my Gin spirits run..... minimal because I find some botanicals come through early in the run. SO, I try to get as much undesirable compounds out in the previous two runs.

[Saltbush Bill]

made a few quick runs in a fractionating collum still, abv ca 80 % dumped the foreshots

What exactly are you calling a " fractioning column"? 80% ABV isn't exactly high quality reflux ed neutral.

but there is always some smearing. SO I would say every run is an opportunity to take more out at the beginning

My feeling on it too......is there really a one size fits all answer to this?
The fores are all gone when the fores are all gone......it depends on the Distiller and the Still or stills used, how good a job he or she does, how cuts are made, how the still is run, how efficient the still is.....just so many variables as with many other aspects of distilling.

[Rrmuf]

My feeling on it too......is there really a one size fits all answer to this?
The fores are all gone when the fores are all gone......it depends on the Distiller and the Still or stills used, how good a job he or she does, how cuts are made, how the still is run, how efficient the still is.....just so many variables as with many other aspects of distilling.

+1. There is no ONE answer.

[dragon9874]

My feeling on it too......is there really a one size fits all answer to this?
The fores are all gone when the fores are all gone......it depends on the Distiller and the Still or stills used, how good a job he or she does, how cuts are made, how the still is run, how efficient the still is.....just so many variables as with many other aspects of distilling.

...100%!! d-(^^,) no 2 runs are ever the exact same, ever.

[sadie33]

This is a great write up! Well explained and easy to follow. thank you!