Pure acids and ester production

[engunear]

Yeah maybe, but when you have 30,000 liters or whatever they use, the climate does not amount to much compared to the heat from exothermic reactions. Nor would the odd vinegar fly. I'd be pretty sure these people are way past airborne insects affecting their ferment.

(I'm always amazed at US Budweiser. Its a very low flavoured beer, which means no way to hide faults, and very sensitive to starting materials. Yet it is made in four places in the US, and damned if I can tell any differences. Artistically, its crap. But as a piece of food tech, those brewers know their stuff. Nothing coming out of the big companies is random.)

The Scots (Abelour) start at 18C and it ferments up to 30C.

Why are you running from "copper converts ethyl acetate to copper acetate and ethyl alcohol"? It may be just a teutonic vs more lackadaisical thinking. One one hand keep all plausible options open, on the other choose one that fits the facts and run, with no actual disagreement. But we know only copper is used for whiskey still heads. We know copper affects flavour. So why not that it affects the most obvious flavour that some class as a fault?

Now where this could go is "take a copper packed fractional column with as much surface area as you can manage. Add clean alcohol plus 2ml per liter ethyl acetate. Leave on 100% reflux for one day. Compare ethyl acetate before and after."

[der wo]

Both Bourbon and Scotch is fermented open. Both is distilled with copper. Also potstilled Bourbon has the glue smell (Woodford Reserve). Also Rum has the glue smell. Rum also is fermented in a hot climate. The temperature at the end of fermentation when it has slown down depends on the outside temperature. And this is the moment when the infection starts.
The studies about the effect of copper on spirits write about sulfur compounds not esters.

For me a climate relation looks more plausible than something with the copper. Or both perhaps isn't very plausible.

[engunear]

Aren't most bourbons are produced in fractionating columns? is my memory so far off here? I thought they used a process closer to petroleum production, with continuous fractional distillation.

But also, the question about ethyl acetate is an artistic one as well, taking cuts to show it or not. We don't get to taste the heads.

From all my batches produced in summer and winter, in open and closed fermenters, I've never been free of ethyl acetate, except when I remove it.

[der wo]

Aren't most bourbons are produced in fractionating columns? is my memory so far off here? I thought they used a process closer to petroleum production, with continuous fractional distillation. Yes. But almost all of them are made of copper. And there are some potstilled Bourbons too. They too have the glue smell.

But also, the question about ethyl acetate is an artistic one as well, taking cuts to show it or not. We don't get to taste the heads.

From all my batches produced in summer and winter, in open and closed fermenters, I've never been free of ethyl acetate, except when I remove it. My fores jar smells always a bit like glue. But if I would mix it to the hearts, it would be much less glue than a normal aged Bourbon

[raketemensch]

So, for the sulfuric acid...

I see it at .2n, .02n, and .12n -- which one are people using? I would imagine you'd want to keep it very low, would a few drops at .02n in a 13-gallon batch be enough?

I'm thinking of loading the boiler with wash, a bit of dunder and a couple of drops, then giving it a reeeeeally slow heat-up time.

It sounds like this might work better on a spirit run, but I am doing single runs through the flute. Maybe throw in a bit of feints as well? Maybe a few drops would be good long-term in the feints jar?

[Single Malt Yinzer]

The latest from Boston Apothecary:
https://www.bostonapothecary.com/german ... auer-1922/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The examination by concentrated Sulfuric acid by adding 4 cc concentrated Sulfuric acid to 10 cc of rum showed that this German rum still showed a clear aroma after 24 h, whereby it differs from artificial products and equals the real rum. Artificial essences could not be proven in any of the samples. The tastes and odor samples are the same as those of the previously tested samples, but the flavor was not quite as strong as in the previously tested sample.

[vqstatesman]

Has anyone here experimented with adding hydrochloric acid directly to a finished wash? I'm keen to hear if and what esters this might produce. Both hydrochloric and sulphuric are approved food safe additives.

Der Wo have you ever tried hydrochloric acid?

[closetdistiller]

What became of these experiments ? What was the outcome ?

[tiramisu]

Nice thread resurrection.
That was an awesome read.
Maybe they went over to ADI forums.

[SomethingObscure]

I just read through shineon's infected dunder pits. And I wondered what became of those experiments too.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66998

And also Der wo whiskey My infected peated Malt Whisky

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 34&t=65858

There is so much great stuff to catch up on. I'll read this one tomorrow.

Cheers SomethingObscure

[Wheelup]

This thread seems to continue the experimentation:

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 7&start=30

[Bolverk]

I just picked up a small bottle of butyric acid (30ml of 88.11 g/mol) to play with and man does it stink like vomit...

Anyway... the question that I had was how much of what proportions alcohol and sulfuric acid was going to be needed to get the ester to form, i had read 1:1 acid/alcohol but read different amounts of catalyst acid. I started off adding 1ml of butyric acid and 1ml of 89% rum heads, to a 5ml graduated cylinder and started adding H2SO4 in .1ml increments and waited about 20 min between .1ml doses until the vomit smell went away. At .3ml it started smelling like unripe banana (bit a vomit under tone) and at .5ml it smells like young pineapple and no vomit... chemistry is amazing!

I guess the big question now is how much of this do I add to my final retort. Its very pungent so I don't want to add a lot. I'm thinking I'll mix up about 30ml of this and add it to my final retort. Once heads are through the condenser I'll redirect my vapor (3 way ball valves) to go through the retort with the eythl butyrate and let my hearts bubble through.

The 10l keg for my first retort should be here any day now, so once I get that plumbed I'll run this batch through a much smaller version of a double retort Jamaican setup.

(Yes, I know this is cheating, but I have no desire or space to have a stinking muck pit in my little house)