Butter Rum

[distiller_dresden]

Hey Pfretz, have you added anything for nutrients? If no tomato paste or multi-vitamins or anything, try getting a can of tomato paste, mixing in a cup or two of warm water until it's soupy/liquid, and stirring that in - since the PH has the shells in there to keep it from being too acidic, it's possible the yeast may just need more nutrients to feed off of to keep doing their job to finality. It sounds like you've covered plenty of yeast, PH, and it's not too high in gravity if you used the same amounts as ShineOn does, so nutrients is what I'd think of next.

I use Fermaid K, a gram per gallon of my mash-ins, for every ferment I do - but there are other options. Personally I just gravitated toward Fermaid K because it's one of the higher quality/more complete options for yeast nutrient on the market, these things aren't very expensive, and I don't want to have to deal with stalled or slow ferments so I always give my yeast the best start they can get. You should always start a ferment with something in there for nutrients, and might look into buying a bag/pound of some kind of yeast nutrient, if not Fermaid K, or look into alternatives like when people use tomato paste for rum ferments.

[Shine0n]

From my knowledge molasses has just about every nutrient it need on its own, Saltbushbill after reading his posts got me using some Epsom salt but that's all I do for mine other than aerating the shit out of it

[Pfretzschner]

Shine, the activity is about the same but the brix has dropped a little better than 1/2 point since late morning,,, maybe it's cranking back up.

It just looks, tastes, and smells so much better than the brandy washes, I'm just getting impatient ,,,,, and I love rum. I'm going to relax and see what happens.

If it doesn't keep working I'll go ahead and run it as planned and keep my fingers crossed.

And I haven't been aerating the shit out of it,,, it's open, covered with cheesecloth, and I've been mixing it every day. I'll change that too.

[Pfretzschner]

Hey Pfretz, have you added anything for nutrients? If no tomato paste or multi-vitamins or anything, try getting a can of tomato paste, mixing in a cup or two of warm water until it's soupy/liquid, and stirring that in - since the PH has the shells in there to keep it from being too acidic, it's possible the yeast may just need more nutrients to feed off of to keep doing their job to finality. It sounds like you've covered plenty of yeast, PH, and it's not too high in gravity if you used the same amounts as ShineOn does, so nutrients is what I'd think of next.

I use Fermaid K, a gram per gallon of my mash-ins, for every ferment I do - but there are other options. Personally I just gravitated toward Fermaid K because it's one of the higher quality/more complete options for yeast nutrient on the market, these things aren't very expensive, and I don't want to have to deal with stalled or slow ferments so I always give my yeast the best start they can get. You should always start a ferment with something in there for nutrients, and might look into buying a bag/pound of some kind of yeast nutrient, if not Fermaid K, or look into alternatives like when people use tomato paste for rum ferments.

Thanks Dresden,, I'm so new at this. and I know it shows. For me there's so much info here and so many people with so much personal experience, I appreciate the patience.

Using Loquats to make brandy, I've never had a problem with fermentation. I've never thought of making Rum until Shine mentioned it and now I'm determined to make it work. I've got some Fermaid coming to have on hand.

[distiller_dresden]

I would /not/ mix every day, see what Shine says, but mixing is akin to aerating, even if it's weaker. When yeast have oxygen, they make more yeast, when yeast don't have oxygen, when they're in an 'anaerobic' environment they make alcohol. If you get a stalled ferment, like you did, and pitch more yeast, then I'd aerate/mix, but once you do I'd leave it sit again. That's just me.

With your rum ferments, with dark brown or any molasses in there, you're going to have some residual kind of 'sweet' taste left over even when it's done, there are unfermentables in molasses that it won't taste really sweet, but it will have like a kind of ginger snaps kind of flavor, if you know what I mean, the 'brown' flavor of molasses and some sugars are there I'm sure you can taste that aren't accessible to the yeast. As far as I know we don't have an enzyme to break them, and they're what gives flavor to your rum when you distill it anyway, so you want that brown flavor there anyhow.

But patience for new people should be a given, unless they prove impatient and demanding, which you don't prove to be. And I use nutrient/Fermaid in my rums, in everything, even given what Shine says about molasses. I just like happy yeast and it's not expensive, nor has any drawbacks, so I give them a gram per gallon.

Rum is my absolute FAVORITE thing to make, brandy a close second. I like brandy because juices ferment so clean, and seem to cook off a lot quicker by about 20-25% than any other cooks I do.

[Shine0n]

I'm sorry, when I said aerate I totally mean at the beginning of the fermentation not during. It won't hurt right after you pitched the yeast but if it's working don't mess with it.
even with a refractometer you can get false readings due to the solids in the wash, I've never seen a really cleared rum wash and I've tried... Hard!

My ferments have little fizz looking bubbles and doesn't foam like some mention. It looks like coke in a glass right after the head calms down, if its doing that means it doing something.

If you let this ferment go as long as necessary you could develop some nice flavors due to the long fermentation and possibly pick up a nice infection too.

Hmmm, high ester butter rum!!!

Have some patience grasshopper. lol

[jon1163]

Okay, after reading 96 posts on this Butter Rum I started my own 15 gallon batch. Shine On, it looks great so far thanks brother

[distiller_dresden]

What Shine said - "My ferments have little fizz looking bubbles and doesn't foam like some mention. It looks like coke in a glass right after the head calms down, if its doing that means it doing something.

If you let this ferment go as long as necessary you could develop some nice flavors due to the long fermentation and possibly pick up a nice infection too."

Mine have tiny little bubbles too, and you can just see some movement on top if you look, like specks or sparkles dancing, that means it's working. When you see those other ferments in bottles with the giant foamy heads, I think it's the restriction that causes that big build up head, the restriction of CO2 escaping. And Shine was being serious about long ferment, that's good, and if you leave it after it's ready that's not bad, you can pick up an infection, like possibly a lactic infection or some other, and they can contribute creamy or fruity or other specific flavors to your rum. They are good, you just don't let them run a long time, what is it Shine, maybe a day or two at most, then run it through the still? Infections and rum are like peanut butter and jelly, if they're 'good' infections, like a 'lacto' infection.

You can go down a SERIOUS rabbit hole getting into learning about this, and dunder (which is just saving your liquid/backset after your distillation from the pot and using 20% of your next mash-in liquid as that dunder/liquid/backset for flavor and adjusting PH down). Then there's the FURTHER rabbit hole of infected dunder lol...

But for now just let that wash you have going set alone and do it's thing, and you will always taste something a bit sweet if there's molasses in there, even when it's 'done', but it won't be very 'sweet' like sugar, if you know what we mean. And like I said and Shine backed up, molasses just has some unfermentables and is always going to throw off a gravity/brix reading because of the stuff leftover in it even if all fermentable sugar is used up. If you taste high quality/baking molasses, and then blackstrap molasses, and in your imagination you can separate the flavor of the blackstrap from the baking stuff, that difference is what you'll taste in your wash even after it's done, that's the unfermentables.

[zio_gessi]

hi all, shine like you know i'm making my experimental rum and i 'm very interested about your " butter process " that i want try it : when fermetation is completed and you load the boiler to do the " heat rest" do you heat the yeast also ?

[Shine0n]

I heat yeast and all, that and all the solids in the molasses is where I believe the buttery notes come from.

I've never after one failed attempt try to clear my rum washes.

Just make sure the wash is finished, I have a 45 gal ss pot that I heat mine up in so I don't have to do it back to back in the boiler and thumper. Saves me time and gas

[distiller_dresden]

Shine, do you still with the yeast in there too, or do you leave it out when you cook the next day, that yeast that settles?

[Shine0n]

I stir the mess out of it and put all in the pot and thumper. I heat with gas and keep the lyne arm off till I see steam then assemble every thing. I do stir the pot about every 10 minutes or so.

I heat up 12.5 gal in the boiler quickly with the hell fire burner, that things a beast.

Less than 45 minutes from light up to drips

[distiller_dresden]

So here's my setup: I have a 5 gallon pot still with thumper. My plan is to put it all into my pot the night before, I have a gas/propane heater, and heat to 135F, hold 2 hours, then shut down and leave to cool as intended. Next day I will do my cook; since I can't stir, should I pour out and save the top 5 gallons (it's about 5.5 gallon with the neck) and then lose the yeast/trub before my cook to distill? I just don't want to have put all the work and time in -- this is my vanilla rum with 3lbs of malted red wheat too (already filtered out before I mashed in, just grabbed the water) -- just to have the yeast throw off flavors if I cook it in the pot for the distillation.

I have two options, don't take out the yeast/trub, and there's wash in the thumper, or do take out the yeast/trub (still wash in the thumper) either/or for my cook... With a typical rum cook I can get to drips in about an hour, unless I want some coughing (even through the thumper and into the worm). I like to hellfire burn if I'm not doing a slow heat up, and then at about 35 minutes and 175/180 in the pot temp I will drop the burner fire so it's more reserved to a level that is good for a thin pencil stream alternating with strong drips for the fores/head, and that adjustment gets me drips about 55 minutes after starting the fire. But I typically seal up my pot just before I start the fire, because I use oatmeal/flour paste. My setup:

[zapata]

Just for another data point until we know all the variables, my successful butter rum was not heated on all the lees. I intentionally racked a bit more yeast than would have come over otherwise, but still left a good yeast cake in the fermenter. Obviously I have no direct comparison to shines all yeast in way, but it was super buttery nontheless.

Also on stirring yeast. "Rousing" of yeast is a thing. It gets settled yeast back in suspension and working and is used by many in various ferments to get faster or more complete fermentation, or to restart prematurely slowing/stalled ferments. It causes no drawbacks often associated with late areation. In a carboy the classic way is to rock it in a swirling motion. In larger ferments you stir with a paddle, and it takes a decent stirring to get that yeast unclumped and suspended, try not to cause too much surface disturbance if you are concerned with aeration, but you dont have to be super delicate. Daily rousing is fine. I dont rouse all my fermentations because I'm lazy, but I will rouse any fermentation. I believe I roused both my butter rums.

[Shine0n]

Yeah, I stir but there is a layer of the really thick stuff on the bottom. I don't scrape the bottom.

Thanks zapata for the info!!!

[hpby98]

transferred my first batch to my keg and as I type it's slowly heating up for butterfication™

hopefully run it tomorrow!

didn't take OG or FG, but had it set to 90f for a week, and then let it go to ambient (75 or so) for the past day or so

no fizzing left

[Shine0n]

My fg is a dip of a finger. lol

Good luck with the run, let me know what you think.

[Pfretzschner]

Shine, the ferment seems to be back on track. It's fizzing steady,, swirls a lot on top, and the brix is now below 13. That kick of bakers yeast seems to have done the trick. I can also taste a change.

I'm thinking that the buttering process should be a little more interesting now. Today's day 15,,,, if it stalls again, I'm probably going to run it,,,, but I'm in no hurry. I hope the long fermentation is works for the best.

Thanks again

[distiller_dresden]

Little swirls on top, and, like, sparkles like tiny fairies flying around in your mash, that's exactly what you want! It's working, just leave it to go and I bet it will work off on its own now. Do what you can (if possible) to keep the temp steady (if you have a heater) and if it rises don't worry about it, and try to keep the top on or if it's just cheesecloth just peek once/twice a day to keep the CO2 cap on top. It won't hurt much, but will keep them producing alcohol well. I think you'll be good, just try not to worry, and as an aside from that worry, don't worry, I've worried over ferments too, I think we all have.

But it sounds like you got things going very nicely again and when it finishes you'll have a great rum to cook off.

[zio_gessi]

I heat yeast and all, that and all the solids in the molasses is where I believe the buttery notes come from.

I've never after one failed attempt try to clear my rum washes.

Just make sure the wash is finished, I have a 45 gal ss pot that I heat mine up in so I don't have to do it back to back in the boiler and thumper. Saves me time and gas

thank's shine, ok for butter process , but do you distill the yeast also ?

[Shine0n]

alot of it I suppose, I stir the wash before loading it. I don't scrape the bottom tho.

[zio_gessi]

YES I understand it.... i asked because i'm afraid about distilling also the yeast : in the past i never used yeast , i had only to add sugar to my fruit to let them start fermenting (wild yeast that for me were unknown )

the last year i added bread yeast to my apple mash to have a faster fermentation and that it was but once distilled the shine had a bad bad smell and i had to run another time. the bad smell was less but still present....
now after 8 months the bad smell is gone and i don't want to ruin my rum experiment since the fisrt strip was good....

[Pfretzschner]

Little swirls on top, and, like, sparkles like tiny fairies flying around in your mash, that's exactly what you want! It's working, just leave it to go and I bet it will work off on its own now. Do what you can (if possible) to keep the temp steady (if you have a heater) and if it rises don't worry about it, and try to keep the top on or if it's just cheesecloth just peek once/twice a day to keep the CO2 cap on top. It won't hurt much, but will keep them producing alcohol well. I think you'll be good, just try not to worry, and as an aside from that worry, don't worry, I've worried over ferments too, I think we all have.

But it sounds like you got things going very nicely again and when it finishes you'll have a great rum to cook off.

Good,, the temp sits between 85 and 90,,, no heater, that's just how hot it is right now. I do keep the mash covered with cheesecloth but also keep a lid on it. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to finish. I can tell a difference in both the taste and smell.

I have another mash ready to make and this time I'm going start with the bread yeast. I want to play more,, its going to be a long hot Rum summer I think.

[distiller_dresden]

If you want to get a good start, put about 16-20 oz of water in a large container (about 32 oz, it'll swell) and add maybe 1-2 tbls brown sugar, then sprinkle your yeast onto it to rehydrate, after 20 minutes stir it up so it's all mixed up. Let that sit about 4-6 hours before you pitch into your mash, and once you do pitch it, you'll see a whole LOT of activity within 2-4 hours because you're essentially creating a yeast 'starter' and waking your yeast up with a nice breakfast of eggs and bacon and orange juice. I had only rehydrated, and not used the sugar solution, until my latest/current ferment going, and was amazed at how quickly and aggressively things got started with this technique.

[Shine0n]

I listened to Cranky early on and don't use bread yeast on fruit washes, I like 71-B, D47, ec1118

After you heat up the wash to 135 and let cool, give it a nice stir to resuspend any solids that may have settled during the cool down.

[distiller_dresden]

I've used D47 and EC1118 and 71B-1122 for fruits now and I'm FIRMLY in the camp of 71B-1122 going forward after my lychee/papaya/pear wash because it captured SO MANY of those lychee/papaya flavors it is ridiculous; I am a convert and I will be using 1122 for any fruit washes going forward.

[hellbilly007]

I'm finally getting around to making some rum. I'm terrible for procrastination. Been sitting on the supplies for a little while now. Temps are in the mid to high 90s, this oughta go off quick, hopefully will be ready to run on the 4th. I had to get some rum to get my ass motivated

Getting ready

[hellbilly007]

Also, I will being adding a vitamin B complex tablet (crushed), and a pinch of Epsom salts. The reason I'm posting here is that I'll be doing ShineOn's Butter Rum Process, and I'm using Evolved Habitat's molly. I'm hoping that 13 gallons in my 15 gallon fermenter will be suffice for headspace, I may split this into 2 fermenter.

[distiller_dresden]

I think you'd be okay hellbilly, in my experience and what I believe, the only time molasses/rum ferments build up a really aggressive/foamy head is when you restrict/block their airflow, like in a carboy with a small outlet/one of those air outlet things. I've done a LOT of rum fermenting in the 6 months I've been distilling, hell I have literally started a new ferment every weekend since the one right after Christmas when I got my pot still. I've also done a cook nearly every weekend; almost every rum ferment I've done has just been like Coca Cola in there, it looks like little sparkles dancing on top and in the mix when it's really going.

Sometimes, about 36 hours in, a foam will form, but unless you actually disturb/stir the ferment -- which THEN look the hell out because I made this mistake once to try and bring my PH up, stirring in some potassium bicarb... 6 gallons in a 13 gallon ferment barrel, about 40 hours into ferment, the summabitch as soon as I took the first full circle of a stir foamed like a grade school volcano all the way but 1/2", shit you not, 1/2" from the top of the barrel. Crappin' my pants, I was!

Also, probably goes without saying, but my first two rum ferments I guess common sense was out the window... I didn't consider the liquid molasses as part of my liquid ingredients, so I added 5 gallons of water, when I should have added 4 to my gallon of molasses. I mix richer now, anyway, but that was my very first rum, a gallon of molasses and several pounds brown sugar with water was the recipe.

[hellbilly007]

d_d, I'm glad you mentioned pH. Going to grab the shells right now