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There's really no need to be so nasty. Yes, I admit my education was a POS in the electrical department. I am still in school, so god forbid my coming to this forum to LEARN what's not in the curriculum. I'm new to this type of thing, but really didn't expect to get snapped at for asking a question.

I simply asked a question as to some specifics of a variac. A variac seems to do the exact same thing, but cost more. Yes, I am not alone in not trusting myself to put something like this together. I did not see anything related to a 120V system with a 1,500 W input. So I asked. If I were going 240 V, this would be simple. There's plenty of good information in the lounge as to how to do a 240V, but none related to a 120V. I'm not the only one on this forum to ask that, and it does not warrant that type of response.

I was not asking for anyone to hold my hand, nor was I whining. It was a legitimate request for information. If someone had some extra for sale, that's called BUSINESS.

I fully respect the work done by all of these people in the forums. I don't respect the nasty responses.

Calicojack,

You didn’t have to look “on another site” for that very same diagram. That very same diagram was posted on Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:17PM by Forum Member crankbait in the “(PSR-25) does this look right?” thread located in the Related Hardware and Appurtenance Forum.

Regards,
Coaster

i had seen the other diagram on this site, but since it does not include the 4th wire I just wanted to make sure I had the right idea with neutral and 2 hots.

MuleKicker wrote:I think its worth noting. I have seen a few of these sketches, (like irishcarbombs) that have the 25A SSR in it. If you are using a simlple SSR, that circuit will not work. You need to use a psr module (as in jacks sketch) if you want to connect a pot directly to the module.

noted...i intend to use a PSR or equivalent just forgot to change the sketch...i'll go back and do that as to not add to the confusion for others.

......

On sunday Jan 01 2012 Panda wrote instructions and give a link to a ssr single
phase solid state relay. I've read the post that the ssr needs a 12v transformer
to complete the controller, but the pqssr-va Panda gives a link to doesn't appear
to have connectors for the 12v transformer wires. It I looks like it would work
the way he has it drawn out. If someone can clear this up for me I would
appreciate it very much. Thanks!

sawyersam wrote:On sunday Jan 01 2012 Panda wrote instructions and give a link to a ssr single
phase solid state relay. I've read the post that the ssr needs a 12v transformer
to complete the controller, but the pqssr-va Panda gives a link to doesn't appear
to have connectors for the 12v transformer wires. It I looks like it would work
the way he has it drawn out. If someone can clear this up for me I would
appreciate it very much. Thanks!

If someone can clear this up for me I would
appreciate it very much. Thanks!

To save MuleKickers sanity I'll try and help here...

sawyersam wrote:On sunday Jan 01 2012 Panda wrote instructions and give a link to a ssr single
phase solid state relay. I've read the post that the ssr needs a 12v transformer
to complete the controller, but the pqssr-va Panda gives a link to doesn't appear
to have connectors for the 12v transformer wires. It I looks like it would work
the way he has it drawn out. If someone can clear this up for me I would
appreciate it very much. Thanks!

Sawyersam,
If you mean >>THIS POST<< then you haven't read it correctly.

At no point does Panda suggest using any 12V supply nor does he link to where you can purchase one. The AC output from the relays he advises using are controlled simply by the potentiometer ...if you had a big enough metal enclosure/box (to use as a heatsink) then that is all you would need to control the boiler element... one Resistance SSR & one correctly spec'd pot.

FWIW, I'd personally like an ammeter in series aswell so you can calculate the power in use.

(BTW, yes there are SSR's where the control input is driven by 12V but not in this particular circuit. That must have been a different post you read).

HTH,
Mac

P.S. Please take care if you intend to play with mains voltages ...at best it bloody hurts and at worst...

cheap Resistance Type Adjustable SSR Solid State Relay 25A w Heat Sink

http://www.uxcell.com/ssr25va-resistanc ... 77768.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

more variety
http://www.uxcell.com/relays-c-1920_1926.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

some of these seem (or some in the 2nd link) to be pot driven SSR (like a PSR-25) not current driven SSR "switches"

So just out of curiosity... What controller is the cheapest that you (members) have found in your area w/ the most readily available parts? If a write up is needed so it can get stickied I do not mind helping. I didnt fully throw mine out there because I found it here. Although I had alot of unanswered questions, due to lack of some info and my knowledge. I agree that after 60 some odd pages this gets mind boggling, as does ant other 60 page thread here. I will say it is much easier to understand these controllers if you pick one and have the parts in front of you. Then again I can see why some members feel the need to make you read instead of helping, to keep you/us from getting hurt. I am not an electrician, but I do not have problems doing household/automotive wiring. I will say that the diagrams for most of these self built controllers are above me. Playing around with 220v is not something I prefer to do without fully understanding. The PID with SSR controller without wiring, element, element attachment, blah blah basically any part that would be needed in all makes of controllers cost me about $60. Does anyone have a way to build a cheaper one?

Old McDonald, Thanks for your help! I had read it correctly, but I guess I didn't write the reply clearly enough for others to understand my question. The post that Panda put up was excellent, great diagram, and links to parts. I had read in other post (not Panda's) that you could not use a pot directly to a simple SSR and I wanted to make sure Panda's info was indeed correct. The SSR diagram Panda gave is exactly like the PSR diagram's that I have seen in other places. I didn't know that there are different SSR's. I'm not sure why you would use a $48.00 PSR if a $8.00 SSR will do the same thing? It just seems to be to good to be true. Yes, I too had planned on adding a ammeter and maybe even a voltmeter if nothing else just for giggles. I did not mean to wad-up peoples drawers over what seemed to me to be a simple question to some of you that know. I'm not a EE if I was I wouldn't be reading this thread in the first place. Electrical engineering is not my strong point, but that doesn't mean I can't learn. I do thank everyone on this site for the great information and for their hard work and willingness to share with others. Again thanks for your help!!

freespirited wrote: Does anyone have a way to build a cheaper one?

Look at the post directly above yours.

@ Sawyersam,
No worries... onwards & upwards!

I'm not sure why you would use a $48.00 PSR if a $8.00 SSR will do the same thing?

Whether the cheap Chinese 'copy' will do it aswell or for as long is a different matter ...but I'm sure you understand what I'm getting at there.

@ Freespirited,
AFAIK, you don't need a PID/temp probe/etc. for the boiler control of a still. You're not looking for proportional control via a feedback loop, just a way of adjusting the power supplied to the element.

BTW, for 220-240V the cheapest method is about 9 bucks... 3.8kW Dimmer
I've no idea if that'll work for 100-120V input (possibly not) and there might be some RFI issues, but I have read of a guy on this side of the pond successfully using one to control his wort boiler.

Old MacDonald wrote:

I'm not sure why you would use a $48.00 PSR if a $8.00 SSR will do the same thing?

Whether the cheap Chinese 'copy' will do it aswell or for as long is a different matter ...but I'm sure you understand what I'm getting at there.

i gotta agree with that

i bought the PSR-25 from RS online and has a very well made look to it... the same cant be said for some stuff thats made very cheap..

but those cheap ones might last for years, your not going to know unless you stump up the $$ and buy one

Maheel, I can understand and agree with you about the cheap thing, and I do like quality parts. The PSR-25 you bought from RS online, I'm not sure who that is but I'm thinking it's not Radio Shack? You seem to be very happy with the quality of yours can you point me in the direction to purchase it? Thanks

I guessing it is radio shack.

Thanks for the heads up guess my eyes wondered both times. Those seem to be quite cheap, looks to be had for around $30. Do you guys experience any noises or light dimming etc issues from these? Only benefit of the pid I see, would be the use to control wash temp during down time. And the alarm to let you know there has been a slight temp change. But wish I had understood that controller earlier. Oh well, maybe one day i will get bored and try to make the PID do ALL the work. Probably a couple different PID's, actuated valves, timer etc. I thought someone had tried this but discussion stopped probably for the same reason it will stop here. Different day, different thread, different dollar.

Maheel is talking about a company called RS Components (English originally, RS standing for Radiospares); they bill themselves as "...the world’s largest distributor of electronics and maintenance products" Have a look... RS Online ...and... RS Worldwide

BTW, Sawyersam, Maheel is from Australia and I suspect you're from the U.S. so I doubt his supplier (RS in Oz) would be much use to you. The PSR-25 is from a UK company - United Automation Ltd - >>HERE'S<< their website.

And just for sh*tz & giggles, here's another power control unit from Germany... KEMO M028N ...about 30Euro to people in the west of Europe (doesn't look much good to 100-120V mains users though).

Mac, you can get the PSR 25 in the US. From http://www.newark.com

Expanding on Forum Member MuleKicker above posting ->

If you are in USofA and attempting to build a PSR-25 based Phase Angle Controller the ‘Phase Angle Control Modules’ thread located in the
New Distiller Reading Lounge has download links to the parts to build a PSR-25 based Phase Angle Controller. The first posting in the ‘Phase Angle Control Modules’ thread by Forum Member Pamulli has the parts download links.

Regards,
Coaster

being a newbie I will do my part and try the $10 3800W unit from ebay-3800W-SCR-Voltage-Regulator-Dimming-Light-Speed-Control with a 3800W heating element. I ordered the parts last night i will report back when the parts come in this should work on a 20A 2 pole circuit.

roadgold wrote:being a newbie I will do my part and try the $10 3800W unit from ebay-3800W-SCR-Voltage-Regulator-Dimming-Light-Speed-Control with a 3800W heating element. I ordered the parts last night i will report back when the parts come in this should work on a 20A 2 pole circuit.

I'm looking forward to your review.

roadgold wrote:being a newbie I will do my part and try the $10 3800W unit from ebay-3800W-SCR-Voltage-Regulator-Dimming-Light-Speed-Control with a 3800W heating element. I ordered the parts last night i will report back when the parts come in this should work on a 20A 2 pole circuit.

As a reminder for the folks using the off-the-shelf speed/power controllers. These things were not originally designed for the workload we will be putting them under (at least not the cheaper units). Here is a link to a discussion about adding a heatsink to the speed controllers. Thanks goes to PrairiePiss as this info was taken from his work with a controller.

calicojack wrote:probably the easiest diagram to follow that i've found (on another site)

Ok so I totally suck at electrical, but I have been trying to teach my self how to build a control and have been over all the pages quite a few times. This is the best I can understand this for sure but I was wondering where would one put a 110 GFCI and a amp meter ? Sorry for a dumb question but Iam dumb when it comes to electricity. O one other thing why couldn't one use the temp control from a hot water tank?

BWC wrote:

calicojack wrote:O one other thing why couldn't one use the temp control from a hot water tank?

That would be a simple On-Off thermostat that accomplishes absolutely nothing for distillation where you need constant power input, not temperature control...

You start to go after reading so much!

roadgold wrote:being a newbie I will do my part and try the $10 3800W unit from ebay-3800W-SCR-Voltage-Regulator-Dimming-Light-Speed-Control with a 3800W heating element. I ordered the parts last night i will report back when the parts come in this should work on a 20A 2 pole circuit.

I have heard from someone in Canada who tried one of these out. He said it worked up to the rated power (at 220V) on a 4 hour reflux run, although the power control was not very linear. He also said that the terminals did not look as though they could handle 20 A. The triac on it is rated up to 40 A so the power limitations on it are from the other components. The most obvious modification would be a bigger heatsink.

Basically it worked fine. Hope it works for you too.

thanks jake_leg i found these cheaper $6.53 on this site owned by the eBay seller at this price if they last 4-5 runs they can be considered disposable and great for the hobbyist
http://www.suntekstore.com/search.php?e ... k3MjM3O30=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

If you order one let us know how it works.

SSR Product report
After going through most of these 60 pages, I settled on the Uxcell.com SSR for Model #a11072900ux0105. $17.99 includes shipping to eastern US. Took 8 days shipping. It worked great on a 10 hour run last saturday. Mulekicker had a phase angle diagram on a post around August 31,2010. When I looked at the output with an Oscilliscope, the output looked just like Mulekickers phase angle diagram as I adjusted from min to max power output. Very clean signal on scope. This is good. Tested it on 110VAC adjusted high and low on heater element. No problem. Did not include a noise filter. Had and FM Radio nearby, no unusual noise noticed. Willl try AM radio tomorrow. Ran the unit Saturday on 240VAC. Current and volts output (wattage) was in the easily adjustable range from 1000 watts up to 4830 watts measured at the heater element on a 15.5gal keg, with a 12gal birdwatchers wash. Towards the end after tails, left the unit on at 4830 watts for about 2 hours continious and no real heat problem with a small computer fan keeping the control box very cool. During the day, I left the fan off for a couple of hours and just a slight temp increase in temp. However the metal box was placed on a 50degF conctete floor that helped get rid of some heat.
Easy assembly, just like the diagram calicojack provided yesterday.

After reading most of the posts, I have been conscidering assembling these power controllers for distribution at a modest price to cover parts shipping and a small bit of time. I think it only took about an hour to put my unit together. I probably spent more time scrounging parts in various hiding places I have forgotten about as I did the actually assembly.

I'm as concerned with someone getting hurt due to improper wiring, or not enough proper knowledge with 240VAC circuits. Just to help put something back for all I have learned here on HD .

I'll be doing another test run this Saturday. Will try to get some pictures. No need for a circuit diagram, calicojack shows that a few post back. Better than I can draw, and I do this stuff for a living.

Hope this helps. Looks like a good part, if it will hold up over repeated use. Maybe I'll do a lot of test runs for the group
Lets see ~15cents per killowatt electric. Could be more, haven't checked the power bill recently. ~3Kw per hour X 10 hours (kinda high estimate, good for the test though) 30Kw x .15 ~45cents per test run. It will be worth the information.

Let me know if I'm on the wrong track.

BTW, my first run was OK. Took a sample to a buddy whow helped his dad brew, when he was a kid, and he kept the jar. Good enough for me.

HH2

but I was wondering where would one put a 110 GFCI and a amp meter ?

You would put amp meter in series with your red or black line to/from your element. GFCI goes before all of it (in the wall)

Hi Hopes2 : Thanks for the info on the SSR. I have been thinking of trying one but was unsure of the quality, but at least it's working for you so far. I noticed the price for the 40A SSR is the same as the 25A is there any reason not to use the 40A in hopes it might hold up better? The element I have a 5500w @ 240v that's about 22.9 amps and is at the upper range of a 25A relay. I was also wondering what pot you used in your controller? The specification says a 470-560K but says nothing about the watts and I haven't been able to find any info on it. Would a 500K 1/2W pot work? Is there a way to calculate the watts needed? Regards,