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Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:25 am**

mtblackdog wrote:Not to butt in too hard, but I have couple old blown Rockford Fosgate car amps laying around. Can I poach the outside heat sinks off of them for a router controller build?

You sure could. They would have plenty of cooling capacity.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:26 am**

Ok so I have been reading A LOT and doing as much research as I can before asking any questions. I have a 60amp 220/240 circuit in my garage used to power my welder. I know if its possible it is over kill for what i have but I figured why not. I have a 13 gallon 3 inch reflux from Mile high. I have 2-2" triclamps welded to the bottom of the tank and 2-5500 watt elements to heat it up. I am just about to start building my Mulekickers phase angle controller, but i needed some expert advice in electrical and wiring. I have modified an diagram to what my question is refering to.

1. Can I run 2 5500watt elements off my current 60 amp breaker?
2. If possible, Is this the correct way to wire the phase angle controller?

I appreciate everyones help or any advice. If there is already a topic or diagram pertaining to this i am sorry, I can assure you i have search this forum till my eyes are blood shot to gather as much info as i could before asking.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:10 am**

Thanks for the reply MK.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:21 pm**

Slim95, a 60 Amp circuit is enough for both 5500 watt elements, they would only produce about 45 Amps at 240V. But I'm not sure if that would be the correct way to wire it. The green on the left side looks correct, but I'm not sure about the right side. If I'm correct everything should be in parallel, but someone else with more knowledge should comment.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:49 pm**

@ slim95,

One 220 volt 5500 watt element will heat a 15.5-gallon stainless steel beer keg without any problems. What makes you want to install 2 220-volt 5500-watt elements in a 13-gallon Mile High boiler?

Regards,
Coaster

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:12 pm**

I was orginally going to run only 1-5500watt and 1-1500watt because i have the two outlets right next to each other. Use both for initial warm up and the turn one off for when she reaches temp. But if I can run both big boys for warm up then i can run only one for constant temp. I know its over kill but that generally is how most of my hobbies end up. I already have the equipment so im hoping what i am asking is possible.

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:00 pm**

@ slim95,

If you intend to only use one of the two 220-volt 5500-watt elements for initial warm up then there is no reason to use two phase angle controllers. Wire one of the 220-volt 5500-watt elements with a phase angle controller and the other without the phase angle controller. When the wash is up to temperature disconnect the 220-volt 5500-watt element that doesn't have the phase angle controller.

Heating a 9 ¾ gallons wash charge (75% of 13 gallons) with one 220-volt 5500 watt element will take some where around 25 minutes. Using two 220-volt 5500-watt elements is only going to reduce that time by about 10 minutes. Is ten minutes really worth the extra cost of the addition phase angle controller, 220-volt 5500-watt element, and extra wiring?

Regards,
Coaster

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:13 pm**

What your saying makes perfect sence, but i would also like to be geared up incase i decide to step up to a much larger boiler. I know what im doing here is not the most logical thing to do i just need to know if what i have drawn is going to work. I respect your opinion but i already have everything ready to be put together i just do not know how to wire it correctly

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:15 pm**

Im trying to figgure out why one would ever really need to do this. You would need to run 6g cable, and I think it would turn out to be kind of a cluster. When it really isnt needed. But, yes, theoretically your circuit should work. Your just powering 2 psr modules in parallel. Honestly, If you must run 2 elements, controlled seperatly.... Build 2 controllers. You will find quickly that you dont need it. Even with a 25gal boiler. And, If you go bigger than that.... I question it being a hobby operation.

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:29 am**

MK thanks for the info.
I just ordered the parts from Newark. Just an FYI you can not find a PSR 25 in Canada on the self at any electronic wholesaler. All wholesalers referred me back to Newark. I really don't like to buy online but this is an occasion where I just don't have a choice.

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:35 am**

Yeah i couldnt find anything like it anywhere even online except from newark.

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:13 pm**

MuleKicker wrote:, If you go bigger than that.... I question it being a hobby operation.

...or he has a lot of friends.

How much money does it take to install a 220v in your house, and does anyone know the pages I should look at for info pertaining to installing one?

RB

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:47 pm**

if in US then you most likely have 220 in the breaker box.so its a matter of a breaker 10$,receptacle.15$
wire is probably 3$ a foot?

Posted: **Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:17 pm**

@ Rum Bum,

To give you an idea of what is evolved in installing a 220volt service circuit suggest viewing the below reference YouTube video ->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMgwZDtR4tw

Regards,
Coaster

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:27 am**

Thanks guys,

I thought it would be much more complicated and expensive! Like in the hundreds of $'s. I think I'll look into converting my keg now!

RB

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:22 am**

30 amp breaker $12 10/3 wire $50 25' plug $15.

I'm in the process of upgrading to 200amp service in my new house. And changing dryer and range over to electric. I'm running a 50amp service to my brew/distiller area.

How much an electrician would charge? Depends.

Rant on. I can't move in because no electric service. I can't pull a permit to install a meter box because I don't live there.

It would cost me $35 for the permit if I could pull it. But no now I have to pay $135 for an electrician to get it. Freakin crooks.

Rant off.

Posted: **Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:06 pm**

Prairiepiss wrote:30 amp breaker $12 10/3 wire $50 25' plug $15.

I'm in the process of upgrading to 200amp service in my new house. And changing dryer and range over to electric. I'm running a 50amp service to my brew/distiller area.

How much an electrician would charge? Depends.

Rant on. I can't move in because no electric service. I can't pull a permit to install a meter box because I don't live there. It would cost me $35 for the permit if I could pull it. But no now I have to pay $135 for an electrician to get it. Freakin crooks. Rant off.

Terrible isn't it. Good thing here is I just upgraded to 200 amp, moved panel out of closet to outside. All I had to do is tell my mother to pull a permit for me she did

. Perks of mothers owning electrical outfits

.

Misunderstood your rant.... So your moving? Now, the new place isnt wired and have a meter base present???

Also, depending on what cord or romex they use they might not need 10/3. Romex's will be 10/2 and a SO Cord will have to be a 10/3. Some electrical cables count the ground while others dont.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:05 am**

I just got a newark code for 15% off after my recent order and they said it can be shared with friends. It is "NEW2P" and expires March 31st

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:15 am**

Hell, newark ought to start advertising here. I swear HD guys are there biggest customers.

Posted: **Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:00 am**

You are probably right haha when you go to the PSR-25 the other items customers bought are a heat sink and potentiometer. May as well just sell it all as a kit haha

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:09 pm**

Thanks MK.
Here is a pic of the controller I built from MK's plan. I just added some control for cooling pump ect...

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:13 pm**

that's a pretty sweet setup you got there. great work

Posted: **Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:07 am**

Alright so im new to this whole electricity thing but i want to bring my pot still inside. The leaves haven't started growing back and that leaves me and my still prone to being spotted by nosey goons. I am currently running a beer keg with a 2inch pipe and a condenser. I have been trying to figure out what all this electrical terms are and what kind of parts i would need to turn my set up into a 120volt set up that i can just plug into the wall. So far the only thing i can understand is a light dimmer and a hot water heating element. Can someone break it down kindergarten style for me or tell me what part numbers and where to get the supplies. Us soldiers are not great when it comes to this technical stuff. Also how fast does this set up heat up 10-15 gallons of mash? Please help me with this, Id hate to electrocute myself.

Posted: **Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:59 pm**

what size resistor is in this pic?
http://www.minneapolis-moline.com/pictu ... /parts.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

never mind.... found it....

Posted: **Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:48 pm**

harleysteve wrote:Alright so im new to this whole electricity thing but i want to bring my pot still inside. The leaves haven't started growing back and that leaves me and my still prone to being spotted by nosey goons. I am currently running a beer keg with a 2inch pipe and a condenser. I have been trying to figure out what all this electrical terms are and what kind of parts i would need to turn my set up into a 120volt set up that i can just plug into the wall. So far the only thing i can understand is a light dimmer and a hot water heating element. Can someone break it down kindergarten style for me or tell me what part numbers and where to get the supplies. Us soldiers are not great when it comes to this technical stuff. Also how fast does this set up heat up 10-15 gallons of mash? Please help me with this, Id hate to electrocute myself.

Your gonna need more than 120v to do 10-15gal. Your looking at a 220v setup.
Here

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:09 am**

harleysteve wrote: Us soldiers are not great when it comes to this technical stuff.

I resent that remark....lol.... Vet as of 1994 and I own and run an electronics repair shop..

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:29 am**

MK, I must have missed a thread about that phase angle thing!? Is it really that simple to wire up? That is a 220v controller, correct? If it is, even I could do it...! And yes, I want to build one(if it is indeed a 220v controller), so my questions are serious... <lol> Your previous controller was above my head and beyond my electronics skill level, but this new one looks sweet.

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:45 am**

RiskyWhiskey wrote:For my 5500W 240V element controller, I ordered these parts from uxcell.com:

http://www.uxcell.com/ssr40va-40a-alumi ... 38947.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://www.uxcell.com/replacement-6mm-s ... 78828.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

They are scheduled to arrive Friday or Saturday, so I will report back when I get the controller finished.

Following up, I built the controller using these parts (and added a 30A ammeter sourced from the same place). The 470k-500k pot is the correct one for a full 240V setup as described in the FOTEK specifications, but what I did not consider is that for our methods of building these controllers, the SSR only sees 120V. Therefore, the pot I have is incorrect for this application. I only have the ability to adjust the heat in the upper range of the pot's rotation. It's not a huge deal, but for full range adjustment, I've ordered a 250k ohm pot that should be here in the next week or two.

Additionally, the 470k pot only allows an input of around 20 amps. The 5500W element I have should draw a max of 22.9 amps at 240V. I've seen it pull this much, but I think there's something wrong with the SSR that allows it to happen. When I am warming up to temp at max input on the pot's adjustment, it will run at 20A for a few minutes and then suddenly jump to 23A. Once it does this, the SSR can no longer be controlled by the pot until it is unplugged from the wall. So, I unplug it, turn the adjustment down, plug it back in, and turn it back up again. It doesn't always happen, but it has happened a few times. Once the wash is heated, this is not a problem because I don't need that much heat input at that point.

The SSR runs fairly hot (within specification) at maximum input, but again that's only at startup. Once the wash is heated, I back it down and play with the heat under 10A and everything works fine. The SSR barely gives off any heat at that point. I wonder if the maxing to 23A and inability to adjust has anything to do with the SSR getting hot.

I'll try to post some pics later, and I'll definitely follow up when the 250k pot gets in.

Posted: **Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:56 pm**

RiskyWhiskey wrote: Following up, I built the controller using these parts (and added a 30A ammeter sourced from the same place). The 470k-500k pot is the correct one for a full 240V setup as described in the FOTEK specifications, but what I did not consider is that for our methods of building these controllers, the SSR only sees 120V. Therefore, the pot I have is incorrect for this application. I only have the ability to adjust the heat in the upper range of the pot's rotation. It's not a huge deal, but for full range adjustment, I've ordered a 250k ohm pot that should be here in the next week or two.
How do you figgure? Your module should be seeing 240v

Additionally, the 470k pot only allows an input of around 20 amps. The 5500W element I have should draw a max of 22.9 amps at 240V. I've seen it pull this much, but I think there's something wrong with the SSR that allows it to happen. When I am warming up to temp at max input on the pot's adjustment, it will run at 20A for a few minutes and then suddenly jump to 23A. Once it does this, the SSR can no longer be controlled by the pot until it is unplugged from the wall. So, I unplug it, turn the adjustment down, plug it back in, and turn it back up again. It doesn't always happen, but it has happened a few times. Once the wash is heated, this is not a problem because I don't need that much heat input at that point.
Sounds like you have a problem with the module, or circuit. You should not loose control.

The SSR runs fairly hot (within specification) at maximum input, but again that's only at startup. Once the wash is heated, I back it down and play with the heat under 10A and everything works fine. The SSR barely gives off any heat at that point. I wonder if the maxing to 23A and inability to adjust has anything to do with the SSR getting hot.
The ssr will naturally get hot during operation. How big is your heat sink?
I'll try to post some pics later, and I'll definitely follow up when the 250k pot gets in.

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:31 am**

Thanks for the reply, MK.

MuleKicker wrote:How do you figgure? Your module should be seeing 240v

The element sees 240V, but the SSR only modulates one leg of that, hence the 120V. It operated exactly the same way when I tested it with a 120V lamp.

Sounds like you have a problem with the module, or circuit. You should not loose control.

I agree. I'm going to wait until I have the pot with the proper specs before I blame it solely on the SSR, but I ran a batch yesterday and had the same problem. Like I said, it's only on max input, so once the run gets started and the heat is turned down, it's not a problem at all.

The ssr will naturally get hot during operation. How big is your heat sink?

It's the standard heat sink that comes with the unit. I didn't mean to imply that it gets so hot that it's going to malfunction. I was just commenting that it does put off quite a bit of heat in normal operation.

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