Home Distiller

Hi All,
It's my first visit to this site and I'm loving the info I'm finding here.

I recently built myself a vapour management reflux still which I am using to produce 95% ABV neutral spirit from a Sucrose based wash.

I am trying to find a relatively inexpensive way to filter the yeast from the wash after fermentation without having to use finings... is this possible.

While I don't want to spend thousands of dollars (NZ dollars that is) I don't mind spending a reasonable sum if the solution is a good one.

I thank you now in anticipation.

P.S. did I here somebody laugh when I said NZ dollars?

Leave it set about a week in cool location ,everything will settle to the bottom,
some of the beer guys use a water filter.after use I thank they "back flush" to git more use out of the filters.

I normally do the finings, and sit and wait thing, but am hoping to be able to speed the system up.... I needs a drink....

Any idea what micron rating filter element?

I have been looking out for a small plate filter thinking that might be a cheaper solution (long term) than cartridge filters.

You're looking for something like this


http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-Six-1-5-10-2 ... 240%3A1318" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I let the primary ferment go for a week in plastic, rack it over to glass and let it set for a week and then just siphon off the top and run it. I don't even use finings, gelatin, etc ... most times for distilling purposes. (5US gal batches)

I wouldn't worry about it being really clear before running it. Filters are usually used for end product beer and wine where you're really concerned about clarity. The little bit of yeast and solids that are left in your wash will be left behind in your boiler.

cheers

~bd~

Thanks for your replys.

I had been led to believe that any yeast left in the wash at boiling time would result in increased flavour in the final product (true or false) and is this effected by the copper mesh packed in my column? (not sure what compounds are supposedly released by heating yeast cells)

I would like to avoid carbon filtration if possible, so require a good clean distillate.

Cheers!

Does anybody out there know anything about small to medium scale plate filtration.

I am an Engineer, so have the capacity to build most things, but would like to see some design info.

Also where to buy the filter elements or paper from.

I have looked into cartridge type filters but the consumables are very expensive.

Does anybody have any experience with filtering beer or wine, and can advise the micron rating required?

What about info on using Bentonite?

Bronzedragon, you mention the use of gelatin? Could you give me more details please? I have been using a product called "Turbo Clear" which I buy from my local home distilling store. It seems to me that 90% of the cost of this product is in the packaging, which really goes against the grain with me.
My Philosophy is that we are trying to simplify and reduce the cost of the product we enjoy, the trade off is that we invest our time into acheiving this. On this basis I believe any reduction in cost is the Holy Grail.

Cheers.

Fistful wrote:I had been led to believe that any yeast left in the wash at boiling time would result in increased flavour in the final product (true or false)

True AND False... The yeast will impart flavor - yeast flavor... It will not augment the other congeners in the wash/mash...

So if I am trying to produce nuetral spirit for Vodka, Gin, etc this will be a real problem I assume? I guess not so important with the dark spirits?

Removal of this flavour is via activated carbon only?

Cheers.

You can try diluting to 40% and re-distilling...

Plate filters ain't cheep either for beer they use 3 , one 2 micron , .7 micron ( that removes most) and .35 sterile can only be used once
for about 5 gal. at 3.50$ each not cheep. that adds 7$ to a wash! (I do not thank you need the sterile)
http://morebeer.com/view_product/5759/1 ... t_-_Deluxe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

rad14701 wrote:

Fistful wrote:I had been led to believe that any yeast left in the wash at boiling time would result in increased flavour in the final product (true or false)

True AND False... The yeast will impart flavor - yeast flavor... It will not augment the other congeners in the wash/mash...

As I understand it the situation is a bit more complicated than that.

Once the ferment is finished the yeast start soaking up some of the products they previously released into the wash, mainly diacetyl. The beer guys use this trick to help clean up the wash before bottling, it is called the 'diacetyl rest'.

If you leave the yeast in the wash for too long the yeast will then start re-releasing the stuff it has soaked up, but 2-3 weeks should not be a problem. This is why you should rack the wash of the lees if you are not going to run it within 2-3 weeks. A properly cleared and stored wash should keep for many months, if not longer (it is basically just a kind of wine).

If you leave the yeast in the wash and heat it this will cause the yeast to burst and release all the stuff they have soaked up. This is not necessarily a bad thing in some situations. Some stillers leave the yeast (or some of it) in the wash, especially for rum.

For vodka you want to clear the wash really well.

Personally, I like a really clean spirit, so I clear all my washes well before running them.

I'm a long time homebrewer so I have a small plate filter (not fancy) in my closet of equipment. The filter I use, is about 2 microns. With that said, I only use that for my meads (honey wine.) Because I like those to be nice and clear. My beers and washes that I use for distilling do not go through it.

I have not had a problem making neutral spirits without filtering my washes. But I use a two stage column packed with raschig rings and copper packing. I don't filter through carbon either. I run a straight sugar wash, take real conservative cuts, then water it down to proper strength. I have found though, that my products benefit from sitting in glass for awhile. Even if there's nothing in there with it, i.e. wood.

Anyway, as far as the geletin goes ... it's an item I've been using in brewing for awhile. I just get the packs of Knox unflavored gelatin. After your beer/wash has gone through it's primary fermentation, just dissolve a pack (for 5US gal) into a small cup of hot water and add into the fermenter as you're racking it over into your secondary. The gelatin acts as a clearing agent. Another thing you can use if you are doing a wash that requires a boil and has grains in it, like barley, wheat or corn ... is called irish moss. It's available at homebrew shops is pretty cheap for a large package and you just put a couple pinches in at the end of the boil. These micro pieces of irish moss attrach coagulated proteins and drag them to the bottom of your fermenter for clearing. Of course this really would not be of benefit for sugar washes and such.

cheers

~bd~

I run a fair amount of brandy every fall and I found massive improvement (this is my opinion) in the overall product by filtering the wine. I ended up turning to a sand based pool filter. I pulled it apart and installed a stainless mesh in place of the fiber mesh though and used new sand. I get a very clear, clean wine with which to distill. Filter sand can be changed to different grains and wash or wine can be recirculated through it to achieve a very clean product for distilling.

No it's not as good as a commercial plate filter system but I'd argue I'm getting damn fine performance.

While I understand this might seem like a large solution to some, I got the pool filter for nothing and ordered a new pump head for a motor I found at the dump to complete the system. Cost me about 200 bucks to refurbish and pipe in place.

It's FAST. I can recirculate the wine for an hour and it's unbelievably clean. Bruising the wine up like this makes no difference when you're going to distill it.

It's not suitable for low volumes though. There are losses simply because the unit and pipes have to be filled and arguably if you're doing a small wash it's not worth it. I drain with gravity to get the most I can back out of the system so I'd say I lose 6-8 litres of wine on every 200 l ferment by using it. A simple backwash and then a run with chlorinated water and a rinse leaves it set up for next time.

My regular ferment is 200 litres anything smaller is an experiment that I just use maple syrup filter bags for, these filter bags are a heavy felt bag that do a pretty good job of large particle filtration and can be washed in oxy clean many, many times over.

Bottling wine or beer is different if you want a sterile product. Not the goal for me though.

Hookline, in this quote ..

HookLine wrote:

rad14701 wrote:

Fistful wrote:I had been led to believe that any yeast left in the wash at boiling time would result in increased flavour in the final product (true or false)

True AND False... The yeast will impart flavor - yeast flavor... It will not augment the other congeners in the wash/mash...

As I understand it the situation is a bit more complicated than that.

Once the ferment is finished the yeast start soaking up some of the products they previously released into the wash, mainly diacetyl. The beer guys use this trick to help clean up the wash before bottling, it is called the 'diacetyl rest'.

If you leave the yeast in the wash for too long the yeast will then start re-releasing the stuff it has soaked up, but 2-3 weeks should not be a problem. This is why you should rack the wash of the lees if you are not going to run it within 2-3 weeks. A properly cleared and stored wash should keep for many months, if not longer (it is basically just a kind of wine).

If you leave the yeast in the wash and heat it this will cause the yeast to burst and release all the stuff they have soaked up. This is not necessarily a bad thing in some situations. Some stillers leave the yeast (or some of it) in the wash, especially for rum.

For vodka you want to clear the wash really well.

Personally, I like a really clean spirit, so I clear all my washes well before running them.

it made me reflect on my first post here. the answere i got was READ, READ, READ so i started reedin. many COUNTLESS hours iv spent reedin,(my damn backs a hurtin) and that, led me here. though im not really concerned about filtering, i was reedin it anyway. but it was here that i lurned, that Some stillers leave the yeast (or some of it) in the wash, especially for rum. that reedin pays off!

Thanks for your comments on sand filtration "Ugly" I had givin this some thought a while ago but was convinced it probably wouldn't work.

I have a Stainless Steel housing I made some time ago which I filled with carbon as a polishing filter. I don't use it anymore as I have found on the odd occasion I need to Carbon filter, it works better just to put the carbon in the vessel with the spirit and leave it for a period.
Anyway I'm thinking now I might modify it to take filter sand and start doing some trials. I'm sure it won't be ideal but should give me an idea of what direction to work in.

Just as an aside... don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but I recently learned how to re-activate, activated carbon once it has been used.

Once the carbon has become useless, all you do is throw it in your pressure cooker and cook it for an hour or so, then strain the water off and put the carbon into a roasting tray and into the oven on a very high temperature for an hour (make sure the oven is clean so you don't add the flavour of last nights roast dinner)

The carbon is now re-activated and ready to go again. You can do this as many times as you like, saving loads of cost for new carbon.

A point I found really interesting is that activated carbon is so porous that 1 gram of the stuff has a surface area of an acre.