in-line thumper... Calling Hawke

Simple pot still distillation and construction with or without a thumper.

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in-line thumper... Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

Hawke, with reference to my interest in the inline thumper subject matter...............

If you could visualize a store bought airlock type of design for my intergration of the column into the thumper unit.

The vessel holding the water (air lock) represents the thumper (and charge).

The floating jacket/cap (on an air lock) would represent my described 2" outer jacket. Only my jacket will not float. Or should/could it float over the upward peice of 1-1/4" with out building pressure? This concept I'm sure would render the overflow protection useless. Unless I notched the base perimeter of the 2" and made it long enough to sit by itself on the floor of the thumper. That would make for very easy cleaning and disassembly. And create quite a rattle during a run I suspect. Might be kinda,,,,,,cool!

I would typically cut the stops out of a 1-1/4" to 2" reducer,extend my 1-1/4" through the reducer and cap the 1-1/4" above the reducer. Then drill an outlet (or two) below the reducer prior to installing the 2" jacket that will discharge at the base of the thumper.

Do you think this configureation will render the overflow protection inherant in this design useless?

To summerize,,,,,,,,,It would be a big ole air lock (thumper). That is to say that the vapor path will be identical.

It'll work,,,,,,,,,,no?

(Dang wish I had Decoy's drawing capability)
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by Hawke »

If this is what you want, it would work.
Image
Use a 2 x 1 1/4 reducer with the stops removed at the top
To make it stable, solder a 1 1/4" cap to the center of the lid, extend the pipe so that it fits into the cap. (Leakage wouldn't be a real problem between the pipe and cap)
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

Yup thats it,

Do you think this design will (when running) still have the (sort of ) overflow safety prevention kind of function that ER70S-2's unit has?
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by Hawke »

Worst it could do is puke. It should run fine, the heat rising from the boiler should get it up to temp quicker than a stand alone thumper and prevent overfilling.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
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Re: Calling Hawke

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Well, it's under way.

I will not yet stabelize the 2" down pipe. I am going to cut grooves on one (the base) end and cap the top. I will let the 2" rest on the bottom of the thumper floor. I want to see if it will,,,,,,,dance. I will call this peice the "Float" as an air lock peice would likely be called. I will make sure there is good clearence to prevent any blockage or the like at the fill tube.

If it does and does not affect the operation of the unit, I think it would be helpful to charge the boiler and thumper at the same time. There will be no spillage. My thumper will catch any spilling. Then just place the float over the inlet tube and button up the lid.

But if the rattling becomes so loud that it is an annoyance, then I'll afix it.

I am going to fabricate my lid out of 1/8 SS and install swing latches (batten latches) with thumb screws. I recon 6 (or 8?) latches. I am hoping to not need flour paste (comments welcome).

I think this design will be a good way to clean,charge, heat the thumper.

My dog gone Picscanner is not working now. But I have it all layed out, and I'm really satisfied with the forthcoming,,,,,,,,,,,,,aesthetic.

As always I appreciate any feed back.

Would it be best to move this thread to get feed back from the membership as well?
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by Hawke »

What is the body of this going to be made from?
I'm sure the 2" float will bounce around a bit. This could lead to failure of the input joint.
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

From the boiler to the thumper will be all stainless (thick) tubing and welded.
I am going to use threaded connectors rather than tri-clamps

The thumper is a pretty decent quality stock pot. The bottom is really thick.

I will definitely be mindful of joint failure.

I'll start a new thread and post ongoing pics ( when I get a new card reader for my camera).
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

Well I recon I won't start a new thread.
Here are some in progress pics.
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Inline thumper 002.jpg
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Re: Calling Hawke

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More pics
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

more pics

Yes the float is stainless. Not galvi
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Re: Calling Hawke

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more pics
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The float in position over the fill tube
The float in position over the fill tube
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

The tabs on the bottom of the thumper will have corasponding tabs on the lid with holes drilled.

The bottom tabs will have threaded rod weldedto them.
The rods will extend through the tabs on the lid and buttoned down with wing nuts.
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

I was going to install a "store bought" swing latch system to secure the lid. But I bailed on the 11th hour.
Too much money.
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

Another close up of the float.
It's heavy. I don't think it will "dance " in the pot.

And based on the welds on the pot, if it does dance it won't be breaking any welds
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by blind drunk »

Wow Larry, that's impressive. Cheers, bd.
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by myerfire »

Great pics, nice workmanship, good looking shop and interesting design. I'm envious.
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by plonker »

Thats amazing Larry, good work..

I love these forums......
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by olddog »

I am looking forward to you posting the results of your first run. :ebiggrin:
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by Hawke »

Looks good. Keep us posted.
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by Hack »

That's a nice looking thumper.

Do you have a way to quickly break the vacuum between the thumper and boiler on shut down? Otherwise the the cooling liquid in the boiler will contract and siphon the thumper juice back into the boiler when you shut down. From my own experience I know this can happen within a minute or two of shutting down.
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by rad14701 »

You've been reading my mind, LWTCS... Been kicking that exact design around for several months now...

Ummm... Uhhh... Where's that patent application I was working on... :twisted:
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by Dnderhead »

the vacuum brakes Iv seen were just check valves
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

Hack wrote:Do you have a way to quickly break the vacuum between the thumper and boiler on shut down? Otherwise the the cooling liquid in the boiler will contract and siphon the thumper juice back into the boiler when you shut down. From my own experience I know this can happen within a minute or two of shutting down.
I had not even thought that to be an issue Hack. Please continue with that line of thinking out loud.

I just shut down from a water test run. It took 45 min. for steam to exit the business end with a 10 gallon water charge(is that,,,,,good/fast?). When switching to 120 volts Steam/vapor would barely exit the discharge. I am hopeful this is a good thing when the boiler (s) are charged with wine. I have a 4500 watt element on a 240 volt (30 amp) current. Then switched to a 120 volt current with a DPDT (30 amp) switch.

The unit completely assembled is 85.5 inches tall. This ain't Grandad's pot still :P
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

Finished weld inside the thumper pot
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

Lid fastoning system.
The threaded rod can be removed/ replaced or what ever during the service life of the unit.
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Re: Calling Hawke

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Bottom of thump unit
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Re: Calling Hawke

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lid fastoning system pic
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

good to go
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by LWTCS »

rad14701 wrote:Been kicking that exact design around for several months now...
I figured you would have at least had something like this rolling a round up top. It's just an air lock with a stationary (floor mount) float. You've been building air locks for awhile so the "flow" concept should be a snap for you. Recon I just beat you to the punch.

Of course I can not take credit for the inline concept. That topic had beed posted for a while. But with the help of Hawke's clarifying my thoughts with regard to the air lock design, I feel like a valid concept modification can continue forward to further solve space and performance limitations.

I don't want to get too far into the congradulatory phase of this build as the likker is not flowing yet.

I'll let ya know olddog.

BTW Hawke, The float did not "dance" at all during the test water run.
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Re: Calling Hawke

Post by Hack »

LWTCS wrote:
Hack wrote:Do you have a way to quickly break the vacuum between the thumper and boiler on shut down? Otherwise the the cooling liquid in the boiler will contract and siphon the thumper juice back into the boiler when you shut down. From my own experience I know this can happen within a minute or two of shutting down.
I had not even thought that to be an issue Hack. Please continue with that line of thinking out loud.
At the time I had this happen the lyne arm coming across from my boiler to my thumper was 3/8" copper tube. I shut down my rig and made a quick trip to take some dishes and things into the house. I was only gone a couple minutes and when I came back I was hearing a strange gurgle from my thumper. I cracked the cap on the boiler loose and the gurgling stopped. When I opened up my thumper I found that all the juice had been siphoned back into the boiler and the gurgling I heard was the last bit of siphon sucking air. The air and liquid in the boiler had contracted when I shut off the heat and created a vacuum. Since then I've always cracked the cap on my boiler first thing after shutting down to avoid this. There are other better reasons to have a larger size lyne arm, but I'd think with a larger diameter lyne arm it might take longer after shut down for this to happen because a larger volume of liquid has to be moved to start a siphon. So I guess the point is that it's a good idea to have some way to open the boiler to outside air right after shutting down the heat when you have a thumper. Looking at what you've got, I think dnderhead's idea of a check valve would be pretty slick.
LWTCS wrote:I just shut down from a water test run. It took 45 min. for steam to exit the business end with a 10 gallon water charge(is that,,,,,good/fast?). When switching to 120 volts Steam/vapor would barely exit the discharge. I am hopeful this is a good thing when the boiler (s) are charged with wine. I have a 4500 watt element on a 240 volt (30 amp) current. Then switched to a 120 volt current with a DPDT (30 amp) switch.

The unit completely assembled is 85.5 inches tall. This ain't Grandad's pot still :P
45 minutes to heat up sounds pretty good. Using propane it takes me about an hour to get heated up on my rig. If all you've got is the switch between the two voltages , I'll bet you'll end up wanting better control over the temp.
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