in-line thumper... Calling Hawke

[Kiwi-lembic]

Hey There L.W .love reading this one over and over ..beautifully simple really the concept ....well done
Its seams the big advantage to an inline is maximising on energy from the boiler charge rather than out at the end of the lyne arm were its heat and energy is at a loss from the thermo loss of the metals ..

makes good sence your system ..i guess the only way to duplicate this in traditional style (nothin in the alembics neck)is heating the outer thumper .electricity ,and vapour passin from charge ,generating a faster evap in the thumper ,quicker stilling time

In your earlier picture page 2 you had a wee copper ball which now seams to be a stainless bowl with water recirc ..you know what im working on .curious to the difference in results(. .with reflux etc the two made) ..hope your day is good ..still bl....dy cold here the sheds not real inviting yet ...nother month shell warm up ..

[LWTCS]

Yes thermal transfer and a smaller foot print were my original pluses (aside from cool factor).

But as it turns out, this stacking concept allows for the easy addition of return drains. so I can go with a smaller/multiple thumper assembly with out fear of flooding. So the Thump Tower was born.

By adding a refluxing condenser to the top of the tower we can acheive a very high proof. Draw down some alcohol and then re-load the appuratus with high abv by putting the unit back into reflux mode. All while able to attain a very fast take off rate.

The orb/ball was an early effort to slow vapor and get some passive reflux. It broke and then the dog dish condenser was born. But the bowls were so thin that evertime things got hot, the bowels would pucker and the joints would pop and leak cooling water.

I still have the orb. It's in the bone yard.

My rig is a stone age version of a plate/fractioning column.

[Kiwi-lembic]

[quote="LWTCS"]Yes thermal transfer and a smaller foot print were my original pluses (aside from cool factor).

The orb/ball was an early effort to slow vapor and get some passive reflux. It broke and then the dog dish condenser was born. But the bowls were so thin that evertime things got hot, the bowels would pucker and the joints would pop and leak cooling water.

----
Nice ..
so do ya reckon the dog bowl had better results than the orb all round at that stage of your build

[LWTCS]

so do ya reckon the dog bowl had better results than the orb all round at that stage of your build

The orb attached to my laser gun looking column prolly added a few percentage points in abv.

Then I added a single bowl to maintain cooling water around the orb and got only a few points more.

Then I made a complete water jacket and was able to acheive 95% by allowing the unit to reflux for a period of time first.

We were hoping to do fores and heads take off at the orb but that did not work out. The vapor never made it that far into the orb.

The dog dish set up was nothing more than a dephlamator/condenser.

Other wise things worked out very well. Started out just trying to eliminate the strip run or more specifically, reduce aggragate stilling time.

[Kiwi-lembic]

so do ya reckon the dog bowl had better results than the orb all round at that stage of your build

very interesting L.W ..me wizz dang boiler mates tryin to talk me outa squatin that wee undersink water cylinder im gunna use for my orb.. ie leavin it in its as is state not a shperical ball like in me pic' http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 1&start=90
Olddogg mentioned it to at the start guess thats what makes me keep readin this post and you two seam to be pioneering this stuff ..very cool

[LWTCS]

Haha, Not quite sure what you just said.

Are U saying you want to cut it and your mate thinks you should leave it?

If I didn't have any height restrictions, I'd leave that piece alone (cept for the needed forthcoming plumbing).

[Kiwi-lembic]

Haha, Not quite sure what you just said.

Are U saying you want to cut it and your mate thinks you should leave it

If I didn't have any height restrictions, I'd leave that piece alone (cept for the needed forthcoming plumbing).

---------------------

yer he reckons leave it for more passive reflux .i like the look of the wee ball lol ...(analy attached to that big alembic shape )
might take the angle like marriage (compromise)
..so when the shed doesnt feel like ice im into it ...quitely ..mean time this post is all great ....food for thought

[Azframer]

Awesome build for sure, sounds like you have good numbers on a single run. Great job!

[LWTCS]

Awesome build for sure, sounds like you have good numbers on a single run. Great job!

Thanks. Tough to run the single thumper with out fine control. Game breaker in my view.

Although, if I had the controller much earlier,,I may not have been inclined (as much) to press forward with my forthcoming builds.

The last three runs in this configuration were pretty good. Dephleg does a good job of reducing the likelihood of smearing and in 100% reflux mode for a good long while,,,, the nose on the distillate is very floral indeed. Nice drink.

Gotta fix a leak on the Thump Tower.

[LWTCS]

Wow your shed is bad as mine

I have tidy'd things a bit since this pic was taken.

[Azframer]

Is your condenser a shotgun?

[LWTCS]

Is your condenser a shotgun?

The dephlegmater is straight 1.5 thru the 4". I would have liked to have created an expanded interior space,,,,,,,,,,,but I didn't. Bit of build fatigue perhaps.
No matter though, as it will knock down everything up to 40% power input. plenty good for how I have learned to run it. And based on what I learned from my "Dog Dish" condenser build,,,,I knew it would perform just fine.

The product condenser is a 3/8 coil (12 feet) within the 4" jacket. Was really leary bout the 3/8. But Hook set my mind at ease. And I have to say that the friggin thing works great.

[Smokehouse Shiner]

LW, Got some questions on thumper sizing. Now I've built an ran a couple thumpers in the past and have always went with the traditional 1/3 to 1/2 boiler size. Your Humper Thumper seems to fall in line with that. But then youve got the thump tower. With each chamber holding 5-600 ml at first glance they seem way under sized, but obviously they work well.Any thoughts on why? I understand this a broad question but I can't wrap my head around why most say a single undersized thumper does little to nothing but your thump tower work so well. I just went back and read the whole build thread on the tower and at one point you asked OD if he thought the sizing of your chambers would work. He reconed they would. How did you fellers come to that conclusion? I imagine OD's backround in plated columns had some thing to do with it. Do you recon a single thumper of equivelant size would perform as well or is it the combination of the charges in each chamber that lets them all work together to acheive the end result. Just tring to get some dialouge on thumper sizing going as I'm strongly considering an integrated thumper for my rig,(basically wanna replicate your Humper Thumper) and searching back on thumper sizing turns up alot of conflicting opinions and no definative results. Wonder what Goose think about it? Thanks. BTW this post was directed toward Larry cause its his thread but all are welcome to comment.

[Azframer]

I think it works so well because it is a thumper/ bubbler. Where flooding with a normal thumper is a bad thing, with this one it is not so bad because he has the over flow that feeds it back to a lower thumper and so on till it returns back to boiler. That is just the way I see it.

[LWTCS]

Your Humper Thumper seems to fall in line with that.

As far as thumper sizing goes, I figure the Humper is a bit smaller than I'd prefer. But it was the best spare pot we had in the house. Still get dirty looks from the missus

My feeling is that a bigger unit will allow for better separation. More space to let the fractions sort.
But that pot is what I went with as it was on hand.
I originally did not think she would flood because of the design. but I was wrong. Then came the return drain.

I can't wrap my head around why most say a single undersized thumper does little to nothing but your thump tower work so well.

It is the dephegmater that tempers the behavior IMO. With out the dephleg, classic thumper
behavior from the three chambers will render a nice product that is pretty flavorful. But a bit more care must be taken when making (heads) cuts. The tower is really a plate column with a single bubble cap plate at each level. To me,,IMO,,, anecodotally speaking. The real difference is that each chamber can hold a larger amount of flavored liquid than the typical bubble plate. Like half way tween lil thumpers and big ole bubble cap plates. Which by the way don't get charged with any liquid prior.
So I believe,,anecdotally speaking,,,that giving the flavor liquid multiple opportunities to infuse flavor as the vapor enters a chamber then exits, will allow for a pretty flavorful product with a higher than normal (for that given abv)flavor profile.
I ran Dunders lil brandy short cut trick way back when so I knew that infusion would affect the product outcome,,,,,,,as all stillmen do that make rum with a doubler

As far as high abv goes......just need to let the unit reflux @ 100% for a good long while. When this rig is fully equalized or that is to say,,, when high proof vapor from the lower (1st)chamber enters the (2nd) middle chamber,,,,and even higher proof liquid drains into the middle chamber,,,,then she is equalized and the proof jumps.

How did you fellers come to that conclusion?

Well,,,,,,I got a great deal on a big ass peice of 4". OD's original thought was that a 6 or 8 would be best (and I agree) based on his experience fabing the "Frankenstill". But I was concerned about total weight and,,,,,,,,,,,I got a great deal on a peice of 4". Nobody knew how well it would work.
We were all having dialog. Joe was doing his stuff and communicating his findings. OD was getting ansy to build an new still as he had just sold the "Evil Twins" as I recall. He had been doing quite a bit of research on the plate columns and of course I am always looking to see what curiosity can be turned into a thumper. So with all the dialog and idea sharing out came the Tower.
We knew the vapor path was sound, but nobody knew till it was built and run.

Shoot I posted this pic as a conceptual thought after the Humper Thumper build to get feed back way back when.

[Smokehouse Shiner]

Thanks that clarify's quite a bit. I thought the deflag was an after thought, or rather an add on after the tower was built. Maybe it was? Anyway so bigger the better in your opinion. Like half the boiler size or better for a single thumper im thinking. Just like the old timers always said. Imagine that.

[LWTCS]

Smokehouse Shiner wrote:
I can't wrap my head around why most say a single undersized thumper does little to nothing but your thump tower work so well.

It is the dephegmater that tempers the behavior IMO. With out the dephleg, classic thumper
behavior from the three chambers will render a nice product that is pretty flavorful. But a bit more care must be taken when making (heads) cuts.

Just another thought I forgot to mention. I built the Humper based on the pot I had on hand. And I recon a real moonshinner would use material most available and the easiest to work with. Seems like the use of a barrel just makes good sense. And as it turns out,,,works well too.
So these larger barrels allow for the vapor to get some distance from the liquid surface. Get some distance from the turbulance. The vapor gets a chance to sort into fractions.
I recon the small thumpers do not allow for any meaningful separation. The vapor is too close to the turbulance within the thumper bottom.

I would say that a more cylindrical shape with a slender cone shaped cap would allow for better separation or more specifically reduce the likelyhood of smearing.

Only my opinion.

[LWTCS]

Anyway so bigger the better in your opinion. Like half the boiler size or better for a single thumper im thinking. Just like the old timers always said. Imagine that.

Indeed. For classic thumper behavior.

Can't be too big I recon. Remember that it is a parasidic boiler and will not work if the primary boiler can't heat it.

[Smokehouse Shiner]

I would say that a more cylindrical shape with a slender cone shaped cap would allow for better separation or more specifically reduce the likelyhood of smearing.

Hmm like a modified keg.... All golden stuff LW. Thank you.

[Azframer]

Do you slow your cooling flow to take it out of reflux or do you power past reflux to get product?

[LWTCS]

Sumpin like this lil feller?

[LWTCS]

With a cap like this (or the like) perty lil can.

[Smokehouse Shiner]

Yup Ive got lots of corneys but what a PITA to seal em safely. Ive seen a couple of those little guys. Gonna be hard to come by one of those legally... Are those fuel cans? What a waste.

[Smokehouse Shiner]

You do see thumpers everywhere dontcha. LOL

[Azframer]

Those can belong to weights and measures, they use them to make sure you are pumping the amount and octane you claim you are.

[LWTCS]

Do you slow your cooling flow to take it out of reflux or do you power past reflux to get product?

That is a good question as I am bouncing back and forth trying to find what I prefer.

Here and about you may have read about some gents that take fores-n-heads kinda slow then kick up the heat a bit for hearts. Helps to insure a pretty good flavor carry over. And makes for a nice fast take off rate too. Just gotta be carefull not to push tails into your hearts.

So I like to do this but without a fully variable controller I can't get that technique down. Or more sepcifically, I can't confirm that I can presently get it better. I got Mules original controller. The up grade is on order

This still is not a one trick pony and I'm still running through some variables to find the plan than suits me the best.
Plus I got a lil side tracked on the tuneable thumper and have been running that configuration lately.

[Smokehouse Shiner]

Those can belong to weights and measures, they use them to make sure you are pumping the amount and octane you claim you are.

Ah, I see. Stll a waste.

[blind drunk]

Never mind, just saw the answer

bd.

[Azframer]

BD all you did was get me curious of what you were going to ask.

[LWTCS]

Hey BD,,,,,listen...I wanted to ask you................Ah never mind