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This has been posted on forum a few times before Uncle Jessie was last to post it.Fourway was first I saw post it back on old forum. but it so reverent I'm putting a sticky on it.--------------I thought this info might be useful to you, It is one of the most important pieces of info that I have gotten from this site, It might sound weird at first, but I can tell you, I no longer use a hydrometer at all. Anyway, this was given to me when i first started this hobby...
"just go by what's coming out.
you smell it.
you put it in a spoon and burn it.
you drip it on a plate and burn it.
you taste it.
you rub it on your hands and smell it.
you rub it on your hands and feel it.
you put it in a little vial or bottle and shake it and look at the bubbles."

"as long as it lights easily in a spoon it's over 100 proof.
When it won't light in a spoon but will light on a plate it's under 100 proof but over 75 or so.
If it burns clear and blue and steady with a flame you can't see in sunlight it's very pure.
If it burns with a yellow "beard" it's got some fusils and impurities... the bigger the beard the more off it is."
"See how much liquid is left in the spoon after the burning stops."

"Taste your output, compare it to the taste of the liquid left in the spoon after burning.
Tasting isn't very accurate for strength (and it gets less and less accurate the more you do it) but it is the most accurate test of how your stuff actually tastes (imagine that)."

"Catch some of the output and rub it between and all over your hands.
Move your hands from arms length toward your face, see how close you have to get to smell it.
Feel how fast it evaporates.
Feel when you rub it between your hands whether it feels oily or slippery (like soap) or scrunchy. "

"Learn to recognize how those feelings correspond to smell and taste and to how it burns."

"Put an half an ounce to an ounce of your output in a small glass bottle or vial with a tight fitting cap and give it a vigorous shake.
Look at the bubbles that form briefly along the edge of the liquid in a string like beads. (READING THE BEAD)
bigger more uniform bubbles happen at higher proof and it will stop "beading" altogether as you start to drop below 100 proof. "

"Do all these things at regular intervals every time you run.
Pay attention to how these sensory tests correspond to one another at different points in the run."

"Don't expect to understand exactly what you are seeing and smelling and tasting and feeling the first several times you do it.
Remember that you are training your senses as much as you are learning an intellectual set of tests... the senses learn through consistency and repetition."

"Just keep doing it, consider it an integral part of your process even if at first you can't tell what good it's doing."

"It will all come together. There are people who can nail proof within two or three points by rubbing the liquor between their hands. The only thing they've got that you don't is experience... and if you don't do the tests whether you "get" them or not you'll never gain the experience. "

Once you senses are trained to tell proof, purity, etc... then this dilution calculator might help.
http://homedistiller.org/calcs/dilute" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I hope this helps you out a bit.



_________________
'mod edit: original post:http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =15&t=6857'

trthskr4 wrote:Tater, I notice that when it burns in the spoon that it starts off pure and blue, then it forms a ring of liquid around the outside of the spoon seperate from the center pool. When it forms this ring it begins to burn with a yellow tip, very small at first but as it burns all the way down the yellow "beard" at the tip of the flame gets larger and brighter. What should this tell me?

After the spoon cools, only took one try to remember to let the damn spoon cool, the leftover has a very very slight tails flavor and other wise drinkable. This is at 69% abv by hydrometer and 1/2 gallon into 5 gallon wash and 1 gallon tails run.

Looks like you mostly answered your own question.Pure and blue is a good description of way high proof ethanol burns off as temp increases to make rest of burn off that is lower proof and not as clean

tater wrote: ... "Put an half an ounce to an ounce of your output in a small glass bottle or vial with a tight fitting cap and give it a vigorous shake. Look at the bubbles that form briefly along the edge of the liquid in a string like beads. (READING THE BEAD)
bigger more uniform bubbles happen at higher proof and it will stop "beading" altogether as you start to drop below 100 proof. "

A great post, tater. I've been doing this since I first heard of it - I think it was goose who mentioned it - and it works. I only use a hydrometer to see how clever I am at judging the bead these days.

I feel vindicated after saying in the yahoo forum many, many months ago that one doesn't really need a hydrometer to check abv. I got myself into a lot of trouble from one or two contributors for saying such a thing.

blanik

one of the good advise i got here"got so many ", sorry can remember who it was, but its a good one.

DON'T BE GREEDY !!!

i run a reflux column on spirit run i put in 3gallons at about 50%, first and last liter go back in next batch.
even if i would trow those out would still be cheep booze,cheep quality booze .

i use to be a dry gin fan because most of the vodka"those in acceptable price range" smell to me like rubbing alcohol.
now for a fraction of the price i make a nice non smelling rubbing alcohol vodka.the hell with gin

anyway just dont be greedy it doesnt pay.make your cut right or just like me go overkill till you get the hang of it.i still dont have the hang of it but vodka is easy when you have the right hardware.

I have a question about the "beading" test.

In my experience, smoother, typically lower proof alcohols seem to have the larger, longer lasting beads, while the higher proof stuff seems to have more numerous, smaller beads that only last a couple of seconds.

Does anyone know why I get different results?

Like shaking everclear. You get lots of tiny bubbles that last for just a couple of seconds.

I always thought the larger bubbles came from water?

tater wrote:

Hack wrote:I seem to get larger bubbles that stay longer when I include more tails in my hooch. How big the bubbles are and how long they stay is no indicator of proof.

Works for me Only way i had to tell proof for long time was the bead.Worked for all the old timers I ever knew as well. .

For me, I read the bead by how much of the bubble is above the top and how much is below. So it's helpful if the bubbles are large and they stick around. Half above and half below seems to be pretty close to 100. I've had stuff where I made really tight heads and tails cuts where the bubbles didn't stick around at all, but the hydrometer indicated 140 proof. Now that I'm learning what I like, I'm leaving a bit more tails in when I make cuts which makes for bigger bubbles that stick around longer.

What does it mean when it doesn't burn in the spoon or the plate? Does that mean I'm running too hot and I'm just getting flavored water?

waynebeer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:42 am What does it mean when it doesn't burn in the spoon or the plate? Does that mean I'm running too hot and I'm just getting flavored water?

Flavor or not, it means that the %ABV is less (lower alcohol content) because the “flash point” is higher.

Burn testing is NOT THE BEST METHOD for proof testing....get you an alcometer (Proof & Traille hydrometer).
ss

waynebeer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:42 am What does it mean when it doesn't burn in the spoon or the plate? Does that mean I'm running too hot and I'm just getting flavored water?

As other have said, it could mean the ABV is too low. BUT, one thing to remember, depending on the lighting and the background it could be difficult to see the actual flame. Please be careful. Alcohol and open flame is nothing to take lightly. No pun intended.

This is fantastic. Thank you.

I recently ran a apple mash, 5 gal. 5 lb of sugar and 1/2 tsp of yeast. my Mash sat and bubbled for 15 days, I then ran it thru my still. But when I tried to test it ( blue ) flame. Nothing, no flame. I am wondering if I am doing everything right. Please help this newbie out.

Docnero wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:38 am...Please help this newbie out...

OK.

Get a Proof & Traille hydrometer (often called, alcometer). You can’t judge %ABV by burning it in a spoon!
ss

Ok, I have a Proof & Traille hydrometer, where I am lost is where should my %ABV number should be at.
I do the Cuts, heads, mids and Tails. I discard about 2 shot glasses of the run. But my shine does not have that 100% proof taste.
Please help.

Docnero wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:41 am Ok, I have a Proof & Traille hydrometer, where I am lost is where should my %ABV number should be at.
I do the Cuts, heads, mids and Tails. I discard about 2 shot glasses of the run. But my shine does not have that 100% proof taste.
Please help.

what does your meter read? and how shoud 100 proof taste? proof is not be %, you will not see 100%.... not on hobby scale.

its at 45

So is that 45 proof or 45% abv?
Lots of info missing.
Such as sg and fg, single or multiple passes, pot or reflux.
And you shouldn't put distillate in plastic.

Single Pass, Copper pot..
Yes, I will order a glass one.

Here is what I did. I collected 8 boxes of apples and smashed all the juices out, filled up a 5 gal carboy with 4 gallons, 2.5 lbs of sugar, 1 tsb of yeast.
It is bubbling up now. This is what I have done thus far.
Is there anything I am missing or doing wrong

My eyes aren’t good enough to read your blurry photo. But judging by how high your P&T is floating, I’d speculate you are no higher than 45 proof, or 22-1/2%ABV. That’s pretty low. I’d expect the collection from the stripping run of the apple must to be at 30%ABV, or even slightly higher.

Here’s the deal...take your collection (consider it “low wines”) and run it through your (copper) potstill again. You’ll likely get a collection that brings it up to 55%ABV (110 proof), for which you can properly age it. You may get the start of the 2nd distillation (a “spirit run”) to be closer to 65-70%ABV (130 to 140 proof), but it will fall continuously throughout the run.

If you read Cranky’s “Fruity Goodness” thread (https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 94&t=48881), you’ll discover that a lot of the apple flavor is trickily burried in the heads. So, don’t “throw the baby out with the bathwater”. Apple brandy can be an elusive target, but since it’s your “freshman endeavor”, you need to read up as much as you can.

Good luck. Be safe, responsible, and discrete.
ss

Well you're missing that most spirits need multiple passes through a pot still.
What you got after a single pass we call low wines. Generally most of us collect enough low wines (from say 3 ferments) to do a spirit run.

I've never fermented apples and I don't use imperial measurements, so I don't know how viable your recipe was. Do you have a sg hydrometer or refractometer?

Take some time to research the basics here, I know there's lots to process but it's well worth the effort.
Both the parent site and cranky's spoonfeeding are a good place to start.

And I'd recommend following a tried and true recipe to get you started. A copper pot can make very tasty spirits, but it takes some research and experience.

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:10 am

Docnero wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:38 am...Please help this newbie out...

OK.

Get a Proof & Traille hydrometer (often called, alcometer). You can’t judge %ABV by burning it in a spoon!
ss

+1

And...first of all..get familiar with the instruments used and "how to do".
There is a link in my signature regarding the alcoholmeter + hydrometer.

Docnero wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:42 am meter.jpg

its at 45

Please refrain from using plastics when handling high ABV spirits!

A real glass graduated cylinder can be bought dirt cheap on eBay.
So there is no excuse for contaminating your product with that shit.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewfor ... 89&start=0
You are not only handling ethanol but a variety of other chemicals too like acetone which is aggressive to most plastic materials.
Stay safe and please throw that cylinder away.

Really glad I found this post. As much as I geek out over the scientific analysis side of things, and I love instruments, measurements, and calculations. I really think there is a lot to be said for the heritage and artistic side of, well - really any craft endeavor. Thanks for sharing this, I'll be sure to work on incorporating these things to start trying to "get a feel," so to speak.

Cheers,
Alky

The less time you spend worrying about the geeky gadgets and other bits, and the more time you spend using your god given senses , the sooner you will become a proficient Distiller IMO.

Bill,
I am very much inclined to believe that. I actually bookmarked this thread to make sure I am coming back to it and working on incorporating these things, as I know that I am inclined to geek out and "over-science" something that probably (read: "definitely," I am just new and don't mean to claim something that I don't know for certain) needs some element of artistic interpretation, for lack of a better word, to master. I definitely appreciate the input though, and plan to work on developing a feel, as much as I develop more data and chemistry driven protocols. I have to imagine that the promised land lies somewhere in between (consistency from data and protocols, and "that little something extra," or character in general, from the artistic side).

Cheers,
Alky

Alky
I have to confess to being at times a bit geeky too .
But you reminded me about when I had bought my first still from a home brew shop .The instructions were something like collect the first 50mls and discard it then keep collecting until the thermometer read about 85°C or there abouts .
This is what I had been doing , but even before I had ever heard of HD or read anything about distilling , my geek was curious , so throughout the run , I’d be feeling the still all over , and I guess getting metric points in my head about how it felt during the run .
I had also got curious about what was coming off . Before I’d ever heard of Cuts , I was having a taste every 250mls . I guess again creating a set if metrics .

Now one day , my thermometer broke .But I badly needed to do a run . I was wondering how I could possibly run the still without it . But I did . Using my hands to feel how it was heating up and then doing those taste tests , I pulled it off .
Your body and senses are an amazing data analysis devise if you learn to trust them

Thanks for the anecdote, yummy. I have a ton of respect for the old school moonishers, who did literally everything by their senses, I actually think that's really cool. Much like mechanics and millwrights who can tell what's wrong with a piece of machinery by sound and touch alone (i went to work as an engineer, but at a small company and worked very closely with my repair team). All of that being said, I know that I need to develop these skills for distilling, especially because I am very much the type to learn from my mistakes (meaning... i need to make most mistakes myself before i ever learn much from others, outside of obvious safety concerns ). So that being said, I am thinking that learning a feel for these things will give me an immense amount of insight when it comes to the intricacies of how the mistakes I have chosen to make (on a given run) are affecting that run. which i can then compare with what the output is doing. All of that being said... i'm still patiently waiting for my cleaning run wash to reach dryness.

okay… what’s the secret? your emojis work on tapatalk and on the web browser. but mine don’t. [emoji848]

Hi
Not sure if this is in the right place,
I see and read people some times, especially with whiskey, tend to put a piece of charcoal in the path of the destillate, is this a good practice, or pretty much just based on taste or preference.
I know it snooths it out a bit and perhaps tones down the heavy corn taste.

One thing to keep in mind is that relying solely on burn tests can be misleading, especially for beginners. While it's great for a rough estimate, getting a good alcoholmeter (hydrometer) is essential for accuracy, particularly during cuts. Also, don’t overlook the importance of running multiple passes through the still if you're aiming for a higher proof. Low wines from a single pass will often need another run to reach the desired strength and purity. It’s all part of the learning process experience and the right tools go hand in hand. Stay safe!