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Here are My New Plans for a Bokakob Connected Above a VM System....

Hi guys sorry I havn't posted in a while, work an all that. Iam in Ukraine working at the moment and will return home in March (next month).
So I have read your sister site from cover to cover more than once, it did'nt all stay with me,some of it was pretty heavy, but Iam a lot more clued up on it now than I was 2 months ago.

So here is the plan:

The Boiler:

50 ltr SS Keg:
Propane Burner:


The Column:

60" (1500mm) by 2" (54mm) Copper Pipe + Threaded connectors
Stainless Steel Scrubbers
Stainless Steel Sink Trap to connect column to boiler (Thanks Rad)


The Condensers:


1 8" double wrapped Reflux condenser, with external cooling fins.
1 2' (600mm) 3/4" Liebig condenser (with spiral flow, thanks Hookline)

The Still Head:




I have a larger size photo if anyones interested... Just Click Here!

The Logic Behind the Concept: IMHO

The logic behind the concept is simple. The overall height of a normal Reflux head could be kept to a
minimum of 300mm (12"), adding the Bokakob to the mix would only incur an extra 100mm (4"). After some
calculations on condensers on the main HD site, I came to the conclusion that if the column was well
insulated, up and probably to the LM take off and maybe also with the inclusion of a cold finger, then this would
be more than enough to compensate for the extra 4"... Then again I may be completely wrong:

My Research:
I have now got to the stage were I have looked at so many systems, Batch, Continuous, LM CM VM...
I think it comes down to two things, either you go with a well proven system or try to take the best from
maybe two well proven systems with the minimum of extra work needed to bring it to fruition.
A feasability study of the above has been looked at by me, I think it's do-able, at least from the point that
I could build the Bokakob LM at height to include the VM later. Test it when its been built, then add the VM if
all goes well with the results from the LM. On the other hand I could do it the other way round, still keeping
the head at height to add the Boka at a later time after testing of the VM... I think its worth a go... I do not
have a Reflux system at the moment so the choices I have given myself are varied and are open to my friends on HD
to criticise and bend this design in the hope that we will get a hand on this.

Maybe another way to find out if it works would be to just Suck it and See...

Output form the VM would pass through a 3/4" (18mm) OD Liebig. The 1/2" vapour tube would have a twisted copper plate inserted for turbulance. Inside the water shroud I would probably adobt Hooklines copper spiral traveling down the length of the water jacket.
I think this would be a much better cooler for my takeoff than the Graham condenser I had planned.
Thats not to knock the Graham, I just think it would be more practicle when I am doing a stripping run.

I had to buy 3 Meters of 2" copper so I should be able to get a new Pot Still as well..

Well thats the plan, it took a while in getting here but I think this is within my skillbase.

I have read, studied, researched and compared other designs. VM is the way to go, but you just cannot ignore the impact the Boka has had on
some of the members here and on yahoo. Taking the Foreshots, Heads and Tails will be a breeze, leaving the VM for the good stuff.
I will document every part of the build, cutting, soldering, drilling, etc; (did I mention my cousin was a PLUMBER! )

As always I bow to the wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum.

I need your 2 cents worth. Would this work? Are we now dealing with Reflux ratios and maths that throw this out the window?
How would this setup perform with a Crossflow Condenser...?

WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS? Would this work...!

Theres not much to do here in Ukraine in the Evenings, -20 C. Go drinking Gorilka (Ukrainian Vodka)
or sit on this great forum and learn. But I think I will look around for some unusual recipes while I am here.
Dont worry if I find any I will be sure to post them.

Now let's have a look at that Jacko Crossflow....

Looks interesting as you can use it both way.

You would need another Thermometer port for the VM runs, closed to the VM off port.

Anyhow I for my part I would prefere two seperate columns for each kind of work.

Joe

That design will work. But I don't see a big advantage over a straight VM or LM.

However, if you extend the section between the tee and the slanted plates (or maybe better, between the slanted plates and the reflux condenser), and put some packing in the gap, then you will have a heads reservoir which can help quite a bit. Don't know too much about them myself.

Or you could make a VM, and a separate slanted plate head (with a small column on it, maybe 300-500 mm). Use the VM for neutral. Swap to the slanted plate for a pot still. You have enough pipe to do it. Use the same reflux coil condenser for both.

Thanks Hookline,, As you already know I am still working in Ukraine. I leave for home (Scotland) on the 22nd of March. I have most of the material to build this. Cannot wait to get home and start soldering...

Anyway, I think I will build the VM first, learn to drive it and once I pass the test, add the Boka as a seperate entity for Pot and LM.
Have the best of both worlds. I would never run them together, I was mainy thinking, Fores, Heads, (VM for Hearts), back to the Boka for tails.

I must have read somewhere about the precision for using VM during the hearts take off was better...
So the decision is made (its only taken nearly 3 months) LOL.

I will learn to walk first, Running Later...

I will definately be using your spiral Liebig Hookline, IMO something just tells me its right...

Sorry for the typos, Ukrainian Vodka again... 60% ABV Thats not normal...lol

Thanks Guys...

EDIT: Oh nearly forgot. Acquired a pamphlet today on Russian and Ukrainian Vodka recipes. Only problem is, its in the mother tongue... Russian.
(I speak some but do not read well). I do have a very nice person who will translate it for me - My Wife... Keep you all posted...

i was going to make a thread about this but now seem like a good time

whats the advantage of having both VM and LM in a still?

trial&error wrote:i was going to make a thread about this but now seem like a good time

whats the advantage of having both VM and LM in a still?

Hi Trial&Error... I read somewhere on HD that the only benefit was the removal of the Foreshots, Heads, from LM, switching to VM for the good stuff. I do not have e reflux still at the moment, I do have the materials and will be building something along the lines above. The Boka Slant Plate has had some greats praises on HD and Yahoo and continues to do so, I like the convenience and design of the LM, I also like the degree of separation that VM offers. I am bouncing ideas around in the hope that I will eventually have a system that gives me the cleanest product with the least amount of work. Comparisons in LM over VM would have to be worked out using my own data and data already shared here on HD. To do that I first need to build my rig.

I will problably build the Boka LM making slight adjustments later to add VM. I may even make them separately as Hook outlined above.

I think the main advantage from my point of view will be learning to drive both, comparing the results, then choosing the best for my needs.

Hope I was clear enough...

Samohon wrote:EDIT: Oh nearly forgot. Acquired a pamphlet today on Russian and Ukrainian Vodka recipes. Only problem is, its in the mother tongue... Russian.
(I speak some but do not read well). I do have a very nice person who will translate it for me - My Wife... Keep you all posted...

Thanks for this link Samohon
I have nearly completed a 3 inch build of this but the take-off is reduced to 2" (pre-Kiwi's followup) then to 1" SS valve. I will run like this and may change it to compare. (I have the 3X3X3 already). I'm going electric and just got a power controller (thanks MuleKicker) so I can again move forward. Like you described above, as I read more and more of the theory I felt I wanted some of both in the same unit. I made mine modular so it will not be a problem to run in either mode exclusively. Excellant (in my opinion) layout for a newb to follow.

WalkingWolf wrote:

Samohon wrote:EDIT: Oh nearly forgot. Acquired a pamphlet today on Russian and Ukrainian Vodka recipes. Only problem is, its in the mother tongue... Russian.
(I speak some but do not read well). I do have a very nice person who will translate it for me - My Wife... Keep you all posted...

Thanks for this link Samohon
I have nearly completed a 3 inch build of this but the take-off is reduced to 2" (pre-Kiwi's followup) then to 1" SS valve. I will run like this and may change it to compare. (I have the 3X3X3 already). I'm going electric and just got a power controller (thanks MuleKicker) so I can again move forward. Like you described above, as I read more and more of the theory I felt I wanted some of both in the same unit. I made mine modular so it will not be a problem to run in either mode exclusively. Excellant (in my opinion) layout for a newb to follow.

Yeah, I got some great feedback from the guy's here on HD WW. The Bok above the VM takeoff really, IMHO, makes for a cleaner product.
confining the Fores, Heads and tails to the LM. Iam going to put a stripped UJSSM through the de-tuned Bok to see if that makes a difference on the quality. I know it will give me a much higher abv, but at what cost? Now I just run my UJSSM/Sweetfeed strips on my pot still for maximum flavour, will be interesting to compare the LM for a spirit run...
Sounds good for the branch Tee from the 3" column. Keep us posted on it's development man...
Later...

Samohon wrote:EDIT: Oh nearly forgot. Acquired a pamphlet today on Russian and Ukrainian Vodka recipes. Only problem is, its in the mother tongue... Russian.
(I speak some but do not read well). I do have a very nice person who will translate it for me - My Wife... Keep you all posted...

Forgot to ask, has there been any progress on the translation??

WalkingWolf wrote:

Samohon wrote:EDIT: Oh nearly forgot. Acquired a pamphlet today on Russian and Ukrainian Vodka recipes. Only problem is, its in the mother tongue... Russian.
(I speak some but do not read well). I do have a very nice person who will translate it for me - My Wife... Keep you all posted...

Forgot to ask, has there been any progress on the translation??

Yep, I'll get it posted and PM you WW... Forgot all about it....

Samohon;

HD is amazing, along with a fantastic set of mentors.

After all the reading and searching, my mind kept going back to the design you put together. For about two weeks, I couldn't re-find your post, and yesterday evening, I searched some more, and finally, there it was. (my searching skills are not as fine tuned as I would like) Looks like you were working on the project around July 2010. Your orignal post had about the same comments in it as what I had been planning to post. Looking for clean neutrals, Boka for forshots,heads, tails, VM for neutrals (good stuff). Do you mind if I use your ideas??
I had spent yesterday afternoon putting together a poor drawing of my thoughts so I could get some comments. After finding your post in the evening, I thought I would get your comments on the progress of your system. The only change I would have is a 2" Tee, reduced to a 1" gate valve. I have a 2" tee, but not a 2x1x2.
At one time I thought I read a comment that the 2x2x2 would not hurt performance much. Or, is the 1" section for help with turbulence?

I plan to make my my version so I can pull off the Boka and Condenser and use alone. I'm also wanting to see if my copper skills are as good as I hope. If not, I'll keep trying, and learning.
Thanks for your time.

HH2

Welcome to HD Hi Hopes2... I ended up changing the 1" Tee to an equal 2" Tee, as it worked out cheaper to buy.
I then reduced the the Tee down to the SS gate valve...

Glad its helping... Start a new thread and Keep us posted with plenty of piccies...

Thanks a lot Samohon. Its encouragement, and tutelage like yours that make HD such a great place.

I'm into the parts collection phase now. As well as collecting more advice on mashes, BOKA operation, VM management, and anything else I can glean from here to help make this a fun, safe endevor. Really looking forward to the assembly of the parts, as much as the final distilling process.

I have the 2"x10' copper stick, and other fittings for the colum, just working up the nerve to start making the first cuts, and having fun.

Spent much time yesterday trying to understand how to post Pics properly. Hope it is easier then I was understanding. My first Pic Post will be just a single frame, of all or most of the parts prior to assembly. Maybe within the next two weeks. Hope it goes well. Will the Post Preview show if the posted pic is properly sized?

HH2

Hi Hopes2 wrote:
Spent much time yesterday trying to understand how to post Pics properly. Hope it is easier then I was understanding. My first Pic Post will be just a single frame, of all or most of the parts prior to assembly. Maybe within the next two weeks. Hope it goes well. Will the Post Preview show if the posted pic is properly sized?

HH2

If you haven't found it yet here is the link on posting ettiqute, also if the picture is too large it won't let you post it.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 35&t=19897

Hi Hopes2 wrote:Thanks a lot Samohon. Its encouragement, and tutelage like yours that make HD such a great place.

Thanks, but I can't take all the credit HH, there are some great stillers here on HD that helped me and thats what makes this site so damn great...
Good luck on your build and have a look at the link Bushman gave above, It'll keep you right...