gin experience so far, questions

[still_in]

hey all

heres my gin experience so far.

-bought $50 worth of herbs and botanicals, according to the ones Bombay Saphire uses. I chose this only because they publish the ingredients.
-ferment 2 carboys of sugar wash. one goes mental. see my "vinegar explosion" post about that.
-distill 23L through my pot still (stripping run). end up with 8.5L of 62% spirits. Cut to 13.5L of 40% spirits. Roughly.
-i decide to jump the gun and add botanicals in the 2nd run instead of third, hoping to save time and likker.
-combine the following in a blender:
1 tbsp juniper berries
1 tsp coriander
1/4 tsp angelica
1/4 tsp cassia bark
1/4 tspground liquorice
1/4 tsp coconut (instead of bitter almonds, total guess)
1/4 tsp grains of paradise
1/4 tsp cubeb berries
1/8 tsp orange peel
1/8 tsp lemon peel
1/8 tsp orris root

These are probably pretty close to what Bombay Sapphire uses but obviously I can't account for freshness, origin, true proportions etc. etc.

-grind them up and put them in a cheese cloth bag.
-place bag in the bottom of my column (sitting above the steel grate at the bottom of my 2" stainless steel NPT to keg adapter) Perhaps this is too low. As in, the shittier quality likker is hanging around at this place in the column. In a proper gin still only the higher quality likker will ever see the gin basket (obviously heads and tails but thats better than what left behind). On the other hand, all vapours pass through the bottom of the column so the good stuff should be just as infused with gin flavour as anything else. I just don't know.
-run the still gently as if it were a whisky run, collecting cuts in jars

Definitely seems "ginny" and I forgot to mention the ground up botanicals smell exactly like Bombay Sapphire. However the taste is very muddy. The smell is sugar likker with a faint gin element. Didn't get passed headsy seeming fraction until after 1.5L in which is unusual. Came out at very high proof for my potstill, upwards of 85%. Maybe the gin bag induced some reflux.

Compared the flavour to the Bombay Sapphire. The gin taste is totally obscured by the sugar likker garbagey taste. Wife came home and said she definitely noticed it tasted like gin. When she tried the Bombay Sapphire she said "oh yeah this is waaaaay better." So I decided to run it all through the still again to purify it and to flavour it again too.

I collected down to about 28% (by this time it developed a crazy menthol taste) and I ended up with 7L of seriously high proof likker. Haven't bothered to measure the cumulative % but I think it must be about 77-80%. Pretty good efficiency for my pot still. But bad tasting likker, haha.

SHOULD I:
1) redistill what i have (after watering down to 40%) then steep this likker at 50% with another gin bag for 24 hours and then
a) filter and cut down to 40%
b) re distill, making cuts
2) water down to 40% and redistill with another, bigger gin bag in the column, making cuts

???????????????

p.s

credit to parent site gin section for proportions of botanicals

[Slow & Steady]

I too had a very difficult time working out a gin recipe that my wife and I enjoyed. We both liked Bombay and Tangeray so I targeted a flavor profile somewhere between the two. First comment I have is only use your best quality hearts run of your sugar run to produce your gin run. I only use aged white dog to start the maceration (yes... I used the M word) I'm still not enjoying what I produce with a gin head. Now Macerate the herbs in your list of herbs & spices from your recipe in 50% ABV neutral, but increase the crushed Juniper berries to a half cup and increase the crushed coriander to 4 teaspoons use a 1/2 teaspoon each of orange, lemon and lime zest. Macerate at least 24 hours but not more than 48 then distill. Because your neutral is pure (no foreshots, heads or tails taste to deal with) you will be able to collect every thing from your distilate and distill this right down to 10% ABV or 99 degrees C. This is important because the flavor profiles come across at different fraction temperatures and the coriander isn't going to cross over completely until the very last. when running so far down the temperature/ABV range be careful not to run the maceration dry and burn the herbs in the bottom of your boiler.

This distillate can be very strong in gin flavor if you don't use enough alcohol in the maceration but that is OK. Just use the distillate like a concentrate and add it to some neutral to produce the flavor intensity you prefer.

Your list of herbs was good it was the amount of each herb & spice that was creating such a weak gin effect

S&S

[kiwistiller]

Sound advice. From my personal experience, I can't emphasise enough the "use your best quality hearts" that S&S mentioned. what was your wash %? if you got 13.5l of 40% from a 23l wash, I prepared to guess that the wash was pretty skanky. if you can chuck it through a reflux column rather than your pot to get it pure, do so. I'd drop the coconut as well, probably won't help the 'muddy' flavour. if possible, I'd carbon filter it and add it back to your next sugar run to save the booze, polish it making good cuts and then starting again. just my 2c though.

[still_in]

thanks for the reply kiwi.

yeah i agree something is amiss with my numbers as the wash was definitely not 23%!!! I thought it would be about 16%. I don't have a hydrometer at the moment (just an alcoholmeter, which may be a bit off, too) Anyway it was high enough that its not "ideal".

However I do not have a reflux still or the time to do another, cleaner batch. I need this gin for a little party this weekend. So I am going to

- run what I have through y pot for a 3rd time and make severe cuts.
- macerate following the above suggestions about increased juniper
- filter it. too inefficient/time consuming to run it through a 4th time. unless this is a really bad idea?

[kiwistiller]

I'd filter it first. you'll probably find it easier to make the cuts without the flavour in it, especially if you aren't used to making gin.

[still_in]

good point. too bad ive already got it heating up in the still. oh well. ill do my best.