just found this place

[maritime]

i have been lurking for a few weeks.
working on the still at work, i'm a pipefitter.
should be ready for the cleaning run in a few weeks. then a basic sugar wash.
this is a great site, tons of help for the novice. keep up the good work.

my project,
1/4 keg pot
3/4 X 4' copper column, copper tubing packing, copper and stainless scrubbies, then 99% pure copper beads. three section column
copper worm in a stainless cooling vessel

not looking for big quanities, just a clean product.
i work with a beer brewer. he's a big help. he's putting out around 300gal a year. he is also a chemist, wealth of knowledge.

[blanikdog]

Welcome Maritime.

blanik

[rednose]

Welcome maritime

Do you really want to built a 19mm column?

my project,
1/4 keg pot
3/4 X 4' copper column,

[maritime]

Do you really want to built a 19mm column?

good question.

i have a pipe fitter mind set. i know i can push the volume through 3/4, then through the 3/8 soft copper worm.
i just lack the knowledge about the surface area for a proper reflux column. i see many are using 2", i just didn't see that necessary for a 4 gal wash.
this is why i'm here. i have a lot to learn.
i will do a cleaning run through it to see how it runs.
i can always make a larger column. i just made what was within arms reach.

[kiwistiller]

Yeah, you really want 2" in an ideal world... you may be able to 'push' it through with your current plan, but by increasing the vapour speed like that, you'll ruin your stills efficency.

[maritime]

i just started working on 2" copper sections. what i am doing is coming off the keg with 2" male ss pipe threads.
then each column section is female npt on the bottom, male on the top. i can take apart and clean, or remove sections if i want.
right now i have a 2" X 1' scrubbie section and a 2" X 1' copper packed section.
then i made a 3/4" X 2" reducer section. then i can add any one of my 3/4" sections.
on the top i have a Tee that has the soft copper take off on the side-going to the condensor, then a threaded in thermometer on the top.
my thoughts are leaning to a 2" copper packed section, for the first runs. that should keep a lot of the carry over out of the column.
then on the second run i can add more sections to better polish the spirit.
is my thinking getting better?
i want to run a neutral spirit. i love gin. i will make a neutral, then buy the essance to add later.

[kiwistiller]

I'm confused. are you building a pot still or a reflux column?

[maritime]

i guess it could be both.
1/4 keg pot
the column is sectional and every section can be removed. there are 2" ID sections and 3/4 ID sections
the top peice has the tee for the 3/8 soft copping to the condensor.
what i was thinking was for the first run, was to just have a 2" copper packed section, then out to the condensor.
then for a polishing run i could add whatever sections i want. i would think the more sections, the purer the product.
i will take a few pictures when i have all the pieces done.
sorry to confuse you. i may not be coming off clear.

[kiwistiller]

ok, so what makes the reflux? It sounds like you're talking about a pot still with packing in it. Have you read this one? http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=13360

Could you post a drawing of your design before you make it? Or link to a similar one? Sounds like you aren't quite getting the idea of a reflux still (no offense).
Cheers

[mrhooch]

Maritime:

I know how pricey those threaded 2" fittings are, have you tossed around the idea of using a pipe expander? Anneal the end of the pipe, put the expander in and you can make a nice slip joint with a really good seal. You can make it tighter and lap it with valve grinding compound to make the ultimate seal. Kinka like tent poles, but you need to make a bit of a tighter connection.

I've seen it done on a number of stills, and I'm going to build a modular column that way, so that it can be easily broken down and worked on.

I've got my plumber buddy who is going to take me to his shop for a few hours so I can make a few sections up. That way I'll have all the tools.

The fun never stops!

Hooch.

[maritime]

It sounds like you're talking about a pot still with packing in it.

that sounds like it. a pot still with a packed column.

(no offense).

never taken.

i don't have a liquid return line back to the column. i was just hopeing with all the surface area in the packed column, i would get plenty of recondensed liquid going back down. with a sugar wash and a packed column, i am hoping to get a neutral spirit.
i think i will try the packed column pot still first. then i can always make a different design. i can make anything.
being a pipe fitter for 15 years, i have run tens of thousands of feet of copper pipe, and can tig weld anything. i was having a problem grasping the whole reflux concept in a still.
what i need to do is look at the control room screen a little at work. we make a product that is worked in a 200,000lbs capacity "pot", then the vapor goes into a column (30' with pall rings), then it refuxes back, next there is a condensor. first the pot is heated with 500*F hot oil in the jacket and internal coil. then we place the pot under vacuum to lower the boiling point. 16 hour batches.
very similar to making spirits. we are just removing water, leaving everything else.


thanks for the help with this.

I know how pricey those threaded 2" fittings are

all my materials are free.

[mrhooch]

Maritime:

What you are proposing will get you a few points in ABV, a pretty clean neutral, but won't likely get you into the 90's.

Refluxing is pretty simple in theory. If you can wrap your head around the the reality that when you distill a higher ABV liquid, you get a yet higher ABV vapour. To put it simply, think of your column as another boiler with the heat coming from the steam/vapours of your boiler with your wash. With proper packing, you can get multiple "boilers" in your column which are called plates, and how many plates you have determine the purity, check out the theory tab for more detailed explanations.

If you condense out the vapour coming out of your column and return it back to the column, eventually the column will fill with as pure an alcohol as is technically possible, at which point you can draw product off.

How you condense out the reflux is open for some interpretation. You can use a coiled tube like hookline uses, very cheap to build, or you can use a liebig condensor, or even wrap cooling coils around the outside of the column, hey I remember a few shotgun condensors being used, my only words of wisdom is that the reflux has to happen over your takeoff point.

How you take your product off is also up for some discussion, either a LM design, where you use either slanted plates to catch the reflux and create a little pool to draw your product from, or use a pipe cap to catch the reflux and draw from there. Or you can use a VM design where you would use a valve to take off the vapours to your liebig. How wide you open that valve determines the product purity.

It is nice when you work in a shop with all the parts to build a still isn't it?

Hooch.

[maritime]

If you condense out the vapour coming out of your column and return it back to the column, eventually the column will fill with as pure an alcohol as is technically possible, at which point you can draw product off.

then my 3/8 soft copper going to my condensor can be tee'd with a valve. the run of the tee going to the condensor, the bull-looking down- going back to the column, the lower portion of my column. then adjust the valve to send most liquid back to the column. tie into the column one section above the pot? or right at the top of the pot, sending the liquid right into the wash?
with doing that, at what point do you start to close the valve and collect more then you return? or is that the whole challenge of distilation?
also with leaving the return valve open, you get nothing to the condensor. the line is still open to the condensor, so you get no pressure build up, but no spirits.
doing this will get me a reflux still, also a higher ABV?
thats simple, heck, i am even getting paid to make that change.

[mrhooch]

Maritime:

I'm wondering if you are thinking of something similar to what I did, and it didn't work worth a s**t. Almost every successful design has reflux (liquid) condensors over the top line of the column. Reflux has to be dribbled into the center of the top (or better yet dispersed evenly over the top) of the packing so as it "Plinko's" its way down the column the alcohol in the reflux gets boiled off again.

The only design that I saw that looked like it would work is to have your liebig above the column with the packing. A small tube was soldered into the side of a coupling sticking into the center of the column, and on the outside it made a P trap as a still works under a little pressure. The bottom of the liebig came to a T. The bottom end of the T you would draw product from, the side of the T overflowed into the P trap and then becomes the reflux.

Hope the explanation helps.

Hooch.

[maritime]

i got it now.
i will tee into the top of the bottom section of my column, dripping from the center. that way it will trickle over packing before to goes into the pot.
very easy change for me to make.
it is now sinking in. had to think about things as i cut grass between rains.
thanks a bunch.

[kiwistiller]

I'd look up and emulate a bokakob or VM design if I were you.

[mrhooch]

Maritime:

It sounds like you're a wiz at pipe, so take kiwi's suggestion, you can make the parts fit together based on what they have designed.

Here is a still build to look at:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =17&t=6842

However, I would use one of hooklines 2 layers coils instead, nice work.

Or this one:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11189

Or if you really want to show off your skills and amaze your friends, build this one:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =7&t=15396

Yup, you can make just about anything produce alcohol if you try hard enough.

Hooch.

[maritime]

after a few hours of skimming designs on here.
i will be making a 2" bokakob this week.
http://www.screencast.com/users/SMacEwa ... 4ff7ca0b51" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
this makes it all clear.
i can make this pretty easy.
what i want to do is feed the water in the bokakob coil, then out and into a 3/4" pipe section over the 3/8" discharge. i can run all that in soft copper. just one garden hose conection and one tubing drain to the ground.
i had a hard time with making a vented column without loosing vapor. this makes it all clear.

great site you have here.