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I tried searching to find something about this but had no luck not sure if I was just searching wrong or if there just hasn't been discussion about this. I have some dwwg that I ran off and after airing was smooth and later became harsh. My process was dwwg ingrediants. I used bakers yeast on this. Double run.After distillation I let airfor one day and then made extreme cuts to make sure I had no heads and didn't put a lot of tails n it either. After mixed put in a 6 gallon glass container at 55% ABV and put an aqaurium aerator with two hoses on it in the raw shine for 3 days covered with a cloth to keep nasties out. After three days I jard it up. It was extremely smooth I have other people test it. All agreed was the smoothest I've had so far. Also after the three days of aerator it dropped down to 50% ABV. Let sit n jars for a week with lids on then tasted was even a little smoother but after three weeks becam harsh with a strong burn going down and a slight burn in the mouth. I can't figure out why and can't find anything by searching any help would be appreciated.

This is a tough one there Yungin. The only thing I can guess, would be that certain compounds dropped out of solubility with E02, when your abv dropped enough...and what was once well hidden, is now accentuated. If you read the stickies on cuts..you'll find that it's always advised to water what you are sampling down...and this is the very reason. Some compounds will remain bonded with E02 at higher abv..that will unbond (for lack of a better term) when mixed with enough water and their presence is more obvious. They, being lighter than E02 (having lower boiling points), tend to float on top of your liquid as well....hence why you suddenly might get a snoot full of it when you take a sip.

Yes Usage could be right

The content of your jars may have stratofied.

Give a good shake and see if that may be happening.

what were the aquarium hoses made off? what was the seal on the container made of?

and +1 to usge on the sampling at low ABV. I like cutting / sampling at 30%.

When Blendin I taste diluted Half water half spirits and also not diluted too get a better all around taste and feel.

LWTCS
I tried shakin it up and it still taste the same.

Kiwi
i didn't even think bout it till you said somethin but the hoses were rubber aquarium hoses. I have read in other places on the forums of people using aquarium pumps I jus assumed they usin the rubber hose also. Do you think that this could have caused it if so why? And the cover was an old shirt.

could very well be that is your problem. I've seen a nice solution where someone encased (or something, can't remember) the pump, and used it's suction to pull air from a jug or jar, and then had a copper air line into the bottom of the jug. So that the pump is sucking air out of the headspace, which draws more in through the copper tube, bubbling up through the distilate before being drawn out by the pump...

I really should draw that but only have a touch pad right now, hope you understand it anyway.

Thanks Kiwi I I will do that next time that's a really good way to do it. I jus wonder why it didn't get harsh for a few weeks. But thanks all. I'll c how the next batch comes out.

You could always inject air through your racking cane...

Good points on the plastic/rubber. It is possible for it to leech into your spirit over time (particularly at higher abv). I just attach the plastic hose that came with the aquarium pump, to a 1/4" copper tube. You can make something fancy on the bottom if you want (ie., cap it, then drill tiny holes in it, or use a Tee, etc)...but you get the idea. But, it still sounds more like to me that some separated in your distillate. When it does so, I doubt shaking it up is going to "re-bind" it as a compound to whatever it separated from.

I find its very easy to numb tastebuds tasting likker. And I've also had similar things happen....things that I thought tasted smooth after sampling distillate, later tasted rough — although not after that amount of time. That pertains to both jars tasted individually, as well as after blending various jars. I've made it a point from my own experience, to do an initial cut (by tasting, etc) but NEVER finalizing that cut until the following day or so, when I can retaste with fresh taste buds. More often than not, I find further adjustments that I make to my cuts...and sometimes get frustrated that the entire run tastes hot or polluted with heads, excess fusels etc. — probably due to a combination of a whole lots of things. Nonetheless, it happens...and I've had it happen both ways. I've had stuff I thought was rather harsh..smooth out nicely. And I've had things that I thought were smooth after initial cut/blending...suddenly turn harsh upon tasting the next day. But,....that is usually is apparent after a day or so. That leads me to believe it's got to be something else.

The only other thing I can really think of is...that the forced aeration eventually evaporated/scrubbed off enough of the E02, that it exposed "more" of everything else that was still in solution — some form of stratification. The likely culprit here would be ethyl acetate (smells like fresh cut apples), has a boiling point right "next" to E02 (and is VERY hard to separate cleanly), and is known for it's "sting" and chemical like taste. Just a guess anyway.

USGE
do you think if I Bring the ABV up whatever may have possibly unbonded might rebond? And if so would it possibly not bond until it reached a much higher ABV?

I really don't know Yungin ...ie., whether raising abv would cause those impurities causing the sting/bite to become soluable again and rebond in the "same" way they were before. Might be worth an experiment on a small bit of it.

Be interested to know how it turns out.

possibility by over aerating you produced acetaldehyde,that is oxidized ethanol, this would have a sharp bite like
white/distilled vinger.if so not good to drink as this can lead to hangovers /liver problems.

Is there any fix for that Dunder? Or anything that might help after it reaches that point?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

looking in to it a bit, it can oxidize further into acetic acid (vinegar),then this could be removed by redistilling . If IM right acetic acid vaporizes at much higher temps.than ethanol.
another possibility is using something to neutralize. like a carbonate. baking soda? (this mite work if it has gone to the acetic stage)
from what I know , all ferments will have some.stressing yeast can be one factor. oxidizing ethanol is another.as it evaporates easily a simple airing gits rid of most.but if you over do it and oxidize
ethanol you make more. then up on further oxidation acetaldehyde ( nail polish/lacquer thinner smell)turns into acetic acid. (this is the smell you have in some glues like silicone )
this would all depend on what stage it is in.

(i hope you understand what I said)

I do...good info and thanks! Moral of the story appears to be...a little forced aeration can go a long way.

I know u may have been talkin more towards USGE but I do understand and thank you that makes a lot of sense. I jus taste tested distilled white viniger to the shine I have and of course the shine has more of a bite but it seems to be the same bite. I think that may be what happened. I did aerate it longer than I should have. But I will aerate it a lot less next time if any at all. I was in a hurry which I know isn't the best way but I had to try. I did use bakers yeast and I was round 12 % in my mash which may have been a little stress so that could have contributed. Thanks to all appreciate the help I will try to raise the alcohol content when I do another batch.

Well it sure does leave you with a hangover and headeache.

Yungin, I think you can aerate "some"...and it will help initially. Just don't overdo it. Should stay smooth then. The abv issue causing things to drop out of compound was something "else" that I guessed could be the problem (something I really shouldn't do, but is sometimes all I have to go on). I think what Dunder was explaining is that the excessive oxygenation of E02 can eventually produce a byproduct that causes the vinegar like sting. It's not something that happened just because your abv dropped out of solution (what I guessed it might be). It was something that the over aeration "produced". So, I think you are good as long as you don't over do it. . Watering down (lowering abv) "will" expose anything off in your cuts, or impurities for reasons explained above. But, in this case, I don't think that was the issue. Your cut was fine. Your distillate was smooth to start with and after initial aeration. And then over doing the oxygen/aeration, produced the sting.

Thanks to Dunder for getting underneath that one and scooping it out!

Thanks guys really appreciate the help. Imma throw it back in the still with some low wines and rerun it.