SWITCHING TO STEAM

[ozone39]

Well, I'm switching to steam power. Installing a coil inside of my boiler and going to run a 50 LBS system (284 deg F) through it....Keep ya posted..

[Braz]

Sounds like an interesting, ambitious project. You are going to document it for us, right?

[Tater]

Well, I'm switching to steam power. Installing a coil inside of my boiler and going to run a 50 LBS system (284 deg F) through it....Keep ya posted..

Cool what kind of setup ya building?

[maritime]

make sure you have your boiler license hanging within sight of that boiler.


if they would let me still at work, i would be steam powered also. i'll ask again next week.

[ozone39]

the class one boilers license is not a problem (it's hanging on the wall), but it isn't necessary in our state being it's located on a private residence. Only required in commercial applications.

[ozone39]

Attached is my system than I am going start fabrication. I'm going to go with an adjustable pressure switch (contact gauge) so that I can control the temperature of the steam going into the wash chamber. I'll be able to control temp from 212 to 320F.....

[squidd]

Based on your drawing, I'm not sure how the steam will circulate through your coils and re-enter the boiler.
The pressure is the same throughout the loops.

squidd

[ozone39]

The steam vapor rises up into the coil, condenses and drains back into the boiler.....water in the boiler acts as a steam trap..

[WeeStiller]

Ozone,

Are you sure the steam will circulate by itself? I have a manual here for running steam locomotives, and these trains use a condensor to collect the wasted steam in a tank and a steam pump to get the condensed steam (=water) back into the boiler against the boiler pressure. Since your heat source is below the water and there are no non-return valves, the pressure will be almost the same in the water and along the steam's path. Steam locomotives often use a superheater beyond a non return valve to overheat the steam already in the steam pipes. In this way, pressure in the steam pipes can be higher than pressure in the boiler.

[manu de hanoi]

excellent idea ozone, I've been wanting to do something like that for a long time to power a continuous setup. So far I still havent found a good way to join copper and stainless steel.

same as weestiller:
About your design, I don't quite understand what would make the vapor run in a loop, the pressure at the end and at the beginning of the loops (= steam boiler pressure) being the same. That thing would prolly explode quickly without the safety valves if there isnt enough cooling power from the stills boiler or if air is trapped in the coils.
I suggest you avoid pressure, and discharge condensed steam in an open air recipient that runs back to the steam boiler through a siphon

[myles]

The steam vapor rises up into the coil, condenses and drains back into the boiler.....water in the boiler acts as a steam trap..

Sorry to be the one to tell you this - but this is a bad idea. I have used plenty of steam heated systems in industrial processes and they all do it the other way. Commercial steam jacketed boilers are the same. In at the top and out at the bottom.

Here is a link for everything you ever wanted to know about steam heating - from one of the leading names in the business:

http://www.spiraxsarco.com/resources/st ... ackets.asp

Happy reading.

[Dnderhead]

not that I know all about steam, is not the steam ran threw coils/jacket, condensed,then pumped (injection pump)
back in to boiler? Iv seen steam engines that way.then you need some way of refilling the boiler.

[myles]

not that I know all about steam, is not the steam ran threw coils/jacket, condensed,then pumped (injection pump)
back in to boiler? Iv seen steam engines that way.then you need some way of refilling the boiler.

Absolutely. The big thermal advantage comes from the energy released when the steam condenses. Superheated systems for example have their uses, but are less efficient at heating, as no condensation takes place. Good for drying though.

[ozone39]

As long as the inlet back to the boiler is at least 6" above the water line it will work..This is a basic two pipe system. I even considered a mono flow system (single pipe) but figured it might flash off and hammer with a small diameter coil.. Buy venting the steam off to the atmosphere you loose all the efficiency of a closed loop. Plus now you have to have water make up controls and floats.....I attached a basic diagram of a two pipe steam system w/o steam traps...Generally a condensate pump is used if the return line coming back is below the low water mark on the boiler....

[manu de hanoi]

Hi ozone, You will need a way to remove air from the pipes at the beginning of operation.
I believe the heating system in the pic you shown would need bleeding maybe once a year to remove air from the pipes
I suggest you consider the simpler steam injection

With an open air system you don't loose all the benefits, because the water is fed back to the boiler at high temperature. In fact you dont loose much as long as all the steam is condensed. As been said in both cases it's important you feed on top. If not of if there is air, then the condensers (aka heating elements of the still boilers) wont condense and the device will explode in the closed loop setup or spurt steam & boiling water in the open system.

[Dnderhead]

i believe this also depend on pressure of boiler,with system that is shone with just gravity return no pump is needed
as it is low pressure .a home boiler operates at .5-1psi. and each foot of head =.433psi , so if you run 50LBs X .433=21.65 ft of head to equal boiler pressure and it would need more to over come the boiler pressure.
so to to make that work at 50PSI with out a pump you would need the condenser over 22 ft above boiler. or operate at lower PSI.
now with with the open system no or little head is needed as there is no/little pressure to overcome.
basically what I'm saying is that the head or weight of water in the return replaces a pump.and this needs to be more than boiler PSI.
consult a engineer before going further if making a closed system.a open system is not such a problem.

[Dogfish]

A couple things I would be cautious about... First, 50 psi steam is very hot and having automatic steam control valves are necessary For good control and expensive; if you want simple steam-pressure control then the something less than 15 psi should suffice. Steam traps are a must for any steam circuit; you'll get blow-by, water hammer or flooding without traps. The size of the heating coil will ultimately be the limiting factor and will establish your minimum steam pressure. Good luck!!!

[ozone39]

I plan on running at range of 1 to 25 PSI (these are the controls I have). 25 PSI at start up (267 F) and then modulate down to a lower pressure to keep the wash at temp. This will controlled by using two adjustable contact gauges in series. One for control; and the other as the high limit. The picture is is a piece of sch 80 stainless that will be the pressure vessel....As well I have an air/stream separator that will mount on top of the header column. The controls and steam components/devices are all things that I have salvaged off steam units over the years of working on these things.