The word MALT does not equal ENZYMES

TEC · Post by **TEC** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:45 pm

Should we have a Sticky explaining that the word Malt has very little (or nothing) to do with the Enzymes that are required to convert starch to sugar?

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:53 am

Not sure what you mean. Can you explain?

Bujapat · Post by **Bujapat** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:16 am

Also need some explanation, TEC.

"Malt" and "malted grain" is the same, yes?

Malt (or malted grain) isn't enzyme, but contains enzymes, yes?

To convert starch into fermentable sugar, we've to use alpha and beta amylase, yes?

Amylases may come out malt (malted grain), from kojikin (a kind of mould on rice for those who make sake) or out pure products (enzymes) we can buy in some specialized shops, yes?

So, is it something I don't understand or is it a question of terminology?

By the way, has anybody here used this product called "Beano"? I read some lines about that, but never found nor tried.

hillbilly_john · Post by **hillbilly_john** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:14 am

Bujapat said: By the way, has anybody here used this product called "Beano"? I read some lines about that, but never found nor tried.

Yes, my wife encourages me to use it when we go out for Mexican food. Works well, promotes marital harmony.

Cheers
JB

Bujapat · Post by **Bujapat** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:31 am

I meaned : Beano for brewin' process... Not to eliminate gas problems in your digestive process

!

So I found a post from Fourway in march 2005 :

"Beano is alpha-galactositase and invertase.
It is helpful in the mashing process but it is only helpful.

To mash (that means to convert the starch in the grain to sugar) you need alpha-amylase and beta-amylase.
These come from malted grain, sprouted grain, a fungus called koji or they can be bought in powdered or liquid form from a brewshop or a supplier of industrial enzymes.

Adding beano to amylase in a mash helps break harder to ferment long chain sugars to shorter more fermentable sugars.

naturally if you are adding a lot of actual sugar, real mashing isn't necessary... the grain is just there for flavor. "

You see, I read this old post just now, and it saied the same like I did 2 hours ago...

I also read some lines about that on homedistiller.org but can't find anymore... I'll surch.

Bujapat · Post by **Bujapat** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:11 am

I just found that about malt :

Malt, the Natural Flavor, Sweetener, and Coloring Agent is available in many forms.
Liquid, Dry, Diastatic, Non-Diastatic, Dark, Light, Extracts, Syrups and Powders with Cereal Adjuncts.

Diastatic Malts (with the natural barley enzymes still active). are used primarily by bakers to supplement the amylase in the wheat flour to provide sugar for fermentation, improve pan flow, improve crumb color and break and shred in bread type products.

Nondiastatic Malts (without active enzymes), are used as flavoring agents, for color sweetness and humectancy. The nutritive materials present promote vigorous yeast activity, accelerate dough conditioning and add flavor and aroma to finished baked products.

So... if you are trying to convert other grains, make sure that the malt you use is "diastatic", or else you will need another source of the enzymes. If you simply want a malt for use on its own (ie as a quick and simple whisky base), then the "non diastatic" is ok.

Stangas · Post by **Stangas** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:35 am

so if i was to make an all grain mash using only say corn and then use the store bought alpha-amylase and beta-amylase enzymes (is there a common term?) it would have the same effect as using a portion of malted grain?

I am guessing you would put the enzymes in during the mashing process where the temps dont get too high?

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:30 pm

There are both alpha and beta available in a store?

DBM · Post by **DBM** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:07 pm

Bean-o will work fine, go ahead and use it. If you use the mashback method you only have to use it in the first mash. From then on just grain, sugar and backset.

Stangas · Post by **Stangas** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:01 pm

back set being the sour mash?

but i used the UJ sour mash and therefore have not had any enzymes in the mash.. does this matter?

so only need added enzymes for beer purposes, unless i use malted grain..

can i use a portion of malted grain to a larger portion of normal grain?

sorry about all the questions.. just tryin to get me head around it

cheers

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:19 am

There are both alpha and beta available in a store?

I have alpha

Watershed · Post by **Watershed** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:46 pm

Stangas wrote:so if i was to make an all grain mash using only say corn and then use the store bought alpha-amylase and beta-amylase enzymes (is there a common term?) it would have the same effect as using a portion of malted grain?

the collective term is Diastase but I've only ever seen it used in reference to Diastatic malt extract or the total enyzme contribution to the mash from malted grain. High roast malts by the way are useless for mashing - the enzymes have been cooked to death.

Swedish connections do something they call "Complete 3 in 1 enzymes" which has the full amylase set plus pectolic enzyme for good measure. I'm not sure when you'd ever need pectolase alongside amylase as pectin tends to occur in fruits not grains.

The enzymes are destroyed at around 75C, it's been a while but I think a typical mashing temp is 65C. when the weather cools off I'll back into grain brewing.