Solderless still head?

GDorn · Post by **GDorn** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:30 pm

I'm mulling over some ideas for building a still head (been researching the subject for a couple years now and am ready to put theory into practice).

The major trouble is that my soldering skills are nonexistent and I'm not sure I could learn them.

So, assuming that soldering is impossible, what are my options for pipe joins?

One thought I had was to use relatively thick copper tubing and use a tap&die to thread it to fit brass joints, and then teflon (ptfe) tape to ensure the seal. But copper is really soft and I'm not sure I could thread the pipes and leave enough thickness for strength...

Another possibility I found researching the forum is compression fittings. I'm not entirely clear how these work - can they be used anywhere?

The last possibility seems to be JB's waterweld. I'm not really excited about that idea, not because I'm worried about toxicity (it's not toxic) but because I'm sure I'd just make a clumsy mess with the stuff.

Has anyone made a reflux still head without soldering or welding?

For a boiler, I plan to use an electric water heater, 5-10 gallons, with the thermostat bypassed, which seems easy enough provided I stick it on a rheostat or timer or get the math right for the exact right wattage element.

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:56 am

Forget about the JB weld. I wouldn't use it in ANY part of the still. Hot alcohol vapors are alot more deteriorating than cool liquid alcohol. If the vapors come in contact with the JB weld, it will leach nasties into your product, and possible poison you.

If you don't want to solder just use compression fittings. (although it is very easy if you know how to hold a propane torch in your one hand and the solder in the other hand)

Big J · Post by **Big J** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:33 am

You should try soldering. I had never done it before, and I just did it on my new pot still. It wasn't really that hard. I bought a small torch and some small fittings to practice on. My solders aren't the prettiest, but they work, and they definitely got better as I did more. Good luck.
Here's some links with some info on soldering:
http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.d ... ntId=18276" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.umass.edu/classes/eng351/examples/pipe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cheers,
J

GDorn · Post by **GDorn** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:03 am

Pothead, JB waterweld is non-toxic and non-reactive.

I know this because I searched the forums. Then I read the MSDS.

Post by **Fourway** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:10 am

I know this because I searched the forums. Then I read the MSDS.

If you searched the forums what you should have found was about a hundred arguments just like this one with blind assertions for and against... proving nothing.

the simple fact is... jb waterweld is non toxic and non reactive WITH WATER.
nobody has tested it with hot alcohol vapor and nobody is likely to.

You may be fond of the idea of inocence until proof of guilt but it isn't a model that works in the prevention of poisoning.

consider all materials suspect until you have proof that they are safe or the weight of hundreds of years of anecdotal experience showing their worth.

possum · Post by **possum** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:42 pm

GDorn, If you are reluctant to solder, then use the compression fittings.
Using JBweld is a very very bad idea.

Hot alcohol is a very agressive solvent. I bet it will leach out goop from the JBweld into the hootch. Maybe even enough to cause the "weld" to fail. There is a difference between not disolvin enough JBWELD to make the weld fail, and disolving enough of the goop to contaminate the good hootch. Definately use somthing else to put your rig together.

GDorn · Post by **GDorn** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:44 pm

This wasn't really intended to be a discussion of waterweld. In fact, I already dismissed the idea of using it, in the very first post.

What about threading?

What about compression fittings? I don't get how they work, which was what I was asking.

GDorn · Post by **GDorn** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:46 pm

Big J wrote:You should try soldering. I had never done it before, and I just did it on my new pot still. It wasn't really that hard.
...
Here's some links with some info on soldering:
http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.d ... ntId=18276" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.umass.edu/classes/eng351/examples/pipe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thank, Big J. I'd read up a bit on sweating, but didn't find anything quite as good as those two. I think maybe I'll give it a try.

What would you suggest for attaching to a water heater outlet? I don't recall what they look like - maybe a compression fitting would be appropriate there?

Post by **Fourway** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:46 pm

What about compression fittings? I don't get how they work, which was what I was asking.

they arent easy to explain.... best bet is to pick up a few and play with them... they will teach you of their ways.

DixieBanjo · Post by **DixieBanjo** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:07 pm

Well,assuming soldering is impossible,youve comlicated things for yourself.I assure you,if you can brush your teeth,you can solder.There nothing to it! All you need to do is clean the joints your going to solder,apply flux,apply heat,and then apply the solder.First I usually wipe the joints down with white vinegar to remove any oils.Then I scour the joints to be soldered with some sandpaper or course steel wool.Then I apply the flux to both pieces to be soldered.Then put the joint together,and heat it evenly with a torch.When its hot enough touch the solder to the gap and it will melt and be sucked into it by capillary action.Very simple.Id be willing to solder a piece of pipe and take pictures if you think that would help you.Its really very simple.If youve never soldered you should try.I think maybe your thinking it requires skill like welding does.It doesnt.

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:42 pm

There are fittings that already have a band of solder in them so all you have to do is clean the pipe with sandpaper, apply flux, and apply heat. I've only seen them up to 1" diameter though.

CopperMan · Post by **CopperMan** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:49 pm

cant we just use the old flour and water method.?

thats all i do

GDorn · Post by **GDorn** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:38 pm

CopperMan wrote:cant we just use the old flour and water method.? thats all i do

You join everything with flour and water? Wow, that's gotta take a lot of maintenence...

Post by **Tater** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:56 pm

GDorn wrote:
CopperMan wrote:cant we just use the old flour and water method.? thats all i do
You join everything with flour and water? Wow, that's gotta take a lot of maintenence...

naw not at all

hornedrhodent · Post by **hornedrhodent** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:36 am

GDorn wrote:
CopperMan wrote:cant we just use the old flour and water method.? thats all i do
You join everything with flour and water? Wow, that's gotta take a lot of maintenence...

Not a problem when you pull it apart completely for cleaning between each run.

CopperMan · Post by **CopperMan** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:46 pm

It lasts fine for atleast a few runs. then just break it down and clean and redo it. Really simple and costs near nothing. And theres no way you can get poisioned from it.

TheMidnightRider · Post by **TheMidnightRider** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:20 pm

Agreed. I use it to hold my entire still together. not only is it completely benign, but it works beautifully, and it will come undone if there is too much pressure in your still.

CopperMan · Post by **CopperMan** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:14 pm

i just got done pasting some of my still back together now its just drying. My stills never really got that much pressure yet

I drilled a 1'' hole and plugged it with dryed flour paste so when it over pressures it pops out. It has over pressured before when the propane kicked in high for some reason and the jar almost went up in flames. Now i keep a wet cloth draped over the collection jar to keep vapors in.