Methanol - Fuel or Poison?

Alcohol is an inexpensive, clean and renewable fuel source.

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escalavardo
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Methanol - Fuel or Poison?

Post by escalavardo »

Hi there.

I'm new here, I have been reading a litle of the forum and it's very good.

I'm from Portugal, and here Methanol is half price of gasoline.

But Methanol is toxic, and my question is:

Is it safe to use methanol, for public health and for the engine health also?

Sorry if this subject has already been talked.

Thanks :D
Intergalactic Captain
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Post by Intergalactic Captain »

It can't be that bad, afterall your country has approves for use as a "safe" fuel. Sure, if you drink it, you'll go blind or worse, but as a fuel it can't be that bad. The main things to look at for public health issues are the VOC content, the (word escapes me, I started drinking after work) safe amount that can be in the air, and the byproducts of its combustion.

Off the top of my head, I believe that all of these are much lower than that of traditional gasoline. I believe that methanol boils lower than heptane and pentane, possibly giving a higher VOC.

When you go to a methanol station, can you smell it in the air? If so, how strong is the smell? Is it a "it smells a little bit," or a "holy fuck this place is gonna explode" smell? If it doesn't smell that much, it can't be that bad. If you've ever been to a petrol (that's what the non-americans call it, right?) station, you'll notice the almost overpowering smell...that can't possibly be healthy.

Finally, we get to the combustion products....I'm not even going to try to write a formula for the combustion of gasoline, as higher hydrocarbon combustions are horrendously difficult to write/predict what's going to happen. Ideally, all "clean" unsaturated hydrocarbon combustions give CO2 and H2O as byproducts, but it (virtually) never works out this way, especially in a engine. Just look at the US and most of the rest of the (modern) world, we all require (insanely expensive) catalytic converters to clean up our exhaust to "acceptable" poisoning levels.

Theoretical combustion for methanol (MeOH, or CH3OH) is:
CH3OH + O2 --> CO2 + 2 H2O (again, the alcohol is messing with my chem...usually i can balance equations with my eyes closed, i'll correct it if its wrong when I sober up). Considering how simple that is, it's "logical" to imply that methanol is cleaner burning than petrol. The equation WILL be wrong in the real world, but not as much as a correctly balanced equation for petrol. The worst I can see is a little CO popping up, but not nearly as bad as with petrol...Once again, check the data on emissions and I'm sure that methanol is safer.

All in all, methanol is probably much safer than petrol in just about every category. Granted, it will make you go blind or worse if you drink it, but I'm sure it's not that bad. I don't know what your government's like on public safety matters, but I'm sure it can't be that bad. If the Portuguese legalized it as a fuel and it's as popular as you imply, I'm sure it can't be that bad...Hell, here in the US we run our Indy race cars on it (well, they're switching to ethanol next year). Either way, as I stated before, I can all but guarantee that it's safer than petrol. As for what it'll do to your engine, that's one area that I know nothing about...But I'm sure someone else on this board can give you an answer.

Good luck and godspeed on your quest to figure out methanol...Asking questions is always a good place to start, but first hand experience is where you really learn. Don't take my word as gospel, but definitely use it as a springboard into more research.
If you see me running, try to keep up!
escalavardo
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Post by escalavardo »

Well, In Portugal it is not used as a fuel. I just sayed that is cheaper then gasoline.

By your equation, I see than after combustion you get H2O. Is it not bad for the engine?

Thanks
stoker
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Post by stoker »

every fuel gives water
CnHm +O2 => H2O + CO2
an alcohol makes a bit more water, I don't think it's something to worry about.
(that water is vapour, not liquid)
-I have too much blood in my alcohol system-
Intergalactic Captain
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Post by Intergalactic Captain »

I'm from Portugal, and here Methanol is half price of gasoline.

But Methanol is toxic, and my question is:

Is it safe to use methanol, for public health and for the engine health also?
That little bit kind of implied that it is used for fuel. But, either way, nothing is healthy in excess...But I'm still quite sure that methanol is better for the public health than gasoline is.
If you see me running, try to keep up!
escalavardo
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Post by escalavardo »

Ok, thanks for your answers.

I will try to do some tests now, and see how it goes.

Hope to not blow the engine.. :D
Longhairedcountryboy
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Post by Longhairedcountryboy »

I would be concerned about any rubber gaskets or hoses that the methonol will eat through eventually.
escalavardo
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Post by escalavardo »

The rubber that methanol eats is the rubber made for old cars, before 1994, right?
escalavardo
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Post by escalavardo »

Hi.

After 200km I give up using methanol.

Some litle noises started to appear in the car, and I don't know if they are because the methanol cleaned some garbage left by the petrol, or if the methanol started to chue a litle some metal engine parts..

For now don't want to risk more..

And with methanol, the car consumes a lot of fuel.. books say that with methanol, the car consumes more 70% then petrol... and they are rigth...
hornedrhodent
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Post by hornedrhodent »

A better method may be to use the methanol to make biodiesel from waste cooking oil - if you can get it cheap enough and have a need for diesel.

AFAIK the methanol here is taxed at same rate as other fuels.
escalavardo
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Post by escalavardo »

here in Portugal 1 liter of gasoline costs 1,35 euros.. I get 1 liter of methanol for 0,55 euro.. BIG diference..

About Biodiesel, I don't have a car that runs on diesel, so for the moment is not as option for me..
cubsrule420
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Post by cubsrule420 »

a large difference between ethanol and gasoline is the temperature that they run at. like a gasoline with ethonal runs at a higher temp than gasoline. if that helps any...

cubsrule420 :twisted:
stg

safty with Methanol

Post by stg »

Five peple died here in Norway after drinking methanol from portugal.. it was sold as smuggled spirits.. Problem is that its imposible for people to taste or smell the differnece. So whatever you do, dont put it bottles and leave for someone, like teenagers to find it. The risk is to high. I read that you could put some gasoline into it, so no one would mix it with moonshine.

Hi by the way, this my first posting, I will also examine the usage of homemade etahnol for a 50cc scooter :) And yea its illegal here as well ;-)
absinthe
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Post by absinthe »

methanol needs a different air fuel ratio than petrol, so you would have been running the engine lean petrol is a 14.7:1 air fuel ratio but methanol is 6.4:1 so you need a little more than twice the fuel to air ethanol is 9:1 air fuel ratio
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrairfuelmeterl.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow (type in 14.7 at the bottem calculator under fuel and it will give you the right air fuel ratio for the other fuels shown)

So if you run it without tuning it will run very hot and lean in the combustan chamber causeing lots o problems, but if its tuned right then it will run fine. try running it for a bit then look at your plugs if they are white then its lean a nice browny grey is what you want black is too rich.

but you will also use TWICE the fuel so its not realy worth it if its only half the price
Whiskey, the most popular of the cold cures that don't work (Leonard Rossiter)
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