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I'm lookin for some advice here. I got fired today, the reason given, poor performance and attitude (I have ALWAYS had very good employee evaluations). The PM specifically stated I didn't have the companies best interests at heart. When I stated that he was completely wrong he said, "Well, maybe you're just getting too old to do this job." I was flabergasted to say the least., Of course there were no witnesses except my self. I have given my heart and soul to this company since 1994. I have many, many times given them my time w/o pay. And now because I'm 60 yeasr old I'm disposable? I would like to know what my legal options are and what agency on the Federal level I need to consult with.

Big R

thats pretty crap..

sorry i cant help with USA employee law stuff.

if it's a large employer than i reckon it's worth a fight to get a payout, if small it might be a waste of time...

Sory to hear that Big R.

My state is a right to hire right to fire state. Basically this means they can fire you for anything they want. MK documentation needed. But discrimination if proven can be fought. The problem is proving it. Luckily I work in a state that is not the same way. Hopefully will never need to worry about it.

But I would see if you can find a lawyer. Maybe one you know or a friend knows so you can ask if its worth it. That's how I found out about my state. After being fired for no apparent reason. You can also maybe check with the state labor board? Defiantly hit the unemployment. They have to give them a specific reason for fireing you. In my case they tried to lie and say I was using company resources for my own business. When I gave them documentation showing I wasn't and what I did was approved of by the owner. They went back after them hard. This will be a tough journey. I'm sory you have to go through it. I'm seeing more and more of your age that its happening to. It really a shity way to do business. But hopefully you will be able to fight this one.

Good luck.

No advice, different country. But I'm sorry to hear about it. Just the other day I heard on the radio about two HR companies that focus on job placement for "older" workers. They both thought that ageism is a short sighted and misguided policy. I agree. Good luck.

Big R:

Sorry to hear the bad news. I'm not an attorney, and I don't have first hand knowledge of the issues you're facing. Are you in a union?

I've been told that age discrimination is very difficult to successfully overcome, and when your supervisor said "poor performance" they may have already started covering their asses.

I listen to Bill Handel, he's an "On the Air" attorney and he has a website where you can post questions for attorneys. It might give you a place to start... Bill Handel has a ton of podcasts that I've listened to, and there are frequent questions about age discrimination. He's on KFI 640 AM.

http://www.handelonthelaw.com/home/tunein.aspx

Good Luck my friend.



Bull.

Big R,

First thing you need to do is write down what happened today, who said what, where and when the conversation took place, etc. Second thing to do is get whatever evidence you can supporting your good work history - evaluations, if they exist, otherwise records of any pay increases, especially if the company uses a "merit" pay increase policy.

What your boss said about being old is very important and if you are willing to swear to it, your evidence is as good as their likely denial.

Your contact point is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). They are the agency that enforces the age discrimination law. Find your local office and call them. They will take you through your next steps.

Your employer (if they are like most) will dredge up every little thing they can (old reprimands, etc.) when faced with the need to justify your termination. Be prepared for it. They often go overboard and dredge up shit from years ago. A good response is, "if I was so bad for so long, why did I get all those raises-promotions-added responsibility, etc.

Good luck. (From a retired labor relations investigator)

Hey BigR
Different country same issues...
Have seen it all before.
They think young is better and in reality it is worse.
They young don't have the work ethic these days.

Sadly over the years I have taken the attitude of "the day you leave is the day they will forget your name"
In other words my loyalty to any company is limited.
Give my all while being paid to do so and don't even give it a second thought once I leave in the afternoon.
Most bosses are under pressure to make the bottom line as profitable as possible and if they can save 50 cents and hour by hiring someone younger, they will.

All the best hope it all works out for you.
I try to think that there is always something better around the corner....
And generally there is.

With change comes opportunity.

TAF

WOW!! that really, really, sux. Like pp said, check out a lawyer.

Now, I would like to fire something back. Yes, they have done this, I say sock it to them, no holds, and NO loyalty barred. However, I would NOT fight for a job back. That bridge is BURNT, like that bandicoot on the ridge (sorry, inside HD joke, from a couple years back). I would NOT look at fighting for any form of rehire, or anything else. Go for blood. Even if you do, it and 'do' have a case, it will likely not be very likely you win. But what will happen, is pre-arbitration payout. If that is enough, then grab it. If you can get a year or couple years salary, then simply bite your lip, suck in your pride, shake hands, except it and move on.

They have EARNED you not giving them ANY respect/break, etc. Raise hell, make them sweat, and accept a decent hush payout.

H.

Braz wrote:Your contact point is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). They are the agency that enforces the age discrimination law. Find your local office and call them. They will take you through your next steps.

Good advice for one perspective. Mine is slightly different. I personally, would seek private legal advice, and attack the problem as a form of extortion. Go for the throat (at least make them 'think' that), but really just do your best to force a big payout in the end. The WILL want to avoid a settlement in court. I personally would worry that EEOC would be fighting too much to 'restore' the wrong. You do not want that (at least I would not). They burnt that bridge, dont fall into the trap of going back. That IS a trap. They could bring you back on, with a moderate pay raise and a 'we're sorry', and then simply set you up to be fired 2 months down the road for some trumped up 'cause' case. That only costs them a tiny bit, and you end up with no recourse at all. You ARE then fucked. I have SEEN that happen. Now, if EEOC is interested in helping you scrape as much flesh off of them as possible, which HIGHLY doubt since i have NO faith at all that the gooberment cares one whit about us peons, then try that route. But I think the 'whiplash style' shock and awe private lawyer might get you the best end result

H.

edit:

Good luck. (From a retired labor relations investigator)

Ok, well you might want to dig into his methods. He has probably seen both ways, and what will succeed and what will not.

+1 Husker. Fight it the best you can.

I had a friend that won a discrimination case. They had to rehire her. It made her life a living hell. To the point they had to move her to a different state far away. And still had problems. It wasn't the bosses that gave her problems. It was the workers sucking up to the bosses. Just got real ugly. So yes don't fight for the job back. Just fight them.

rtalbigr wrote:I'm lookin for some advice here. I got fired today, the reason given, poor performance and attitude (I have ALWAYS had very good employee evaluations). The PM specifically stated I didn't have the companies best interests at heart. When I stated that he was completely wrong he said, "Well, maybe you're just getting too old to do this job." I was flabergasted to say the least., Of course there were no witnesses except my self. I have given my heart and soul to this company since 1994. I have many, many times given them my time w/o pay. And now because I'm 60 yeasr old I'm disposable? I would like to know what my legal options are and what agency on the Federal level I need to consult with.

Big R

Wow, if they referenced your age...just wow. You should probably talk to an attorney, because as far as I know age discrimination is illegal. Get advice from a legal professional asap - and as said before write down what was said while it's still firm in your memory.

And best of luck - sounds like total BS.

Plus 2. Go for the jugular.

Husker wrote:

Braz wrote:Your contact point is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). They are the agency that enforces the age discrimination law. Find your local office and call them. They will take you through your next steps.

Good advice for one perspective. Mine is slightly different. I personally, would seek private legal advice, and attack the problem as a form of extortion. Go for the throat (at least make them 'think' that), but really just do your best to force a big payout in the end. The WILL want to avoid a settlement in court. I personally would worry that EEOC would be fighting too much to 'restore' the wrong. You do not want that (at least I would not). They burnt that bridge, dont fall into the trap of going back. That IS a trap. They could bring you back on, with a moderate pay raise and a 'we're sorry', and then simply set you up to be fired 2 months down the road for some trumped up 'cause' case. That only costs them a tiny bit, and you end up with no recourse at all. You ARE then fucked. I have SEEN that happen. Now, if EEOC is interested in helping you scrape as much flesh off of them as possible, which HIGHLY doubt since i have NO faith at all that the gooberment cares one whit about us peons, then try that route. But I think the 'whiplash style' shock and awe private lawyer might get you the best end result

H.

I don't quarrel with Husker's sentiments here, I share them in fact. Problem is, the law requires you go to EEOC first, before you can file a lawsuit. Here's a quote from the EEOC website (I have added the emphasis):
-------------
If you plan to file a lawsuit alleging discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability, genetic information, or retaliation, you first have to file a charge with one of our field offices (unless you plan to bring your lawsuit under the Equal Pay Act, which allows you to go directly to court without filing a charge). We will give you what is called a “Notice-of-Right-to- Sue” at the time we dismiss your charge, usually, after completion of an investigation. However, we may dismiss for other reasons, including failure to cooperate in an investigation. This notice gives you permission to file a lawsuit in a court of law. Once you receive a Notice-of-Right-to- Sue, you must file your lawsuit within 90 days. We cannot extend this deadline except when the District Director gives the parties a written notice of intent to reconsider before the deadline for filing a lawsuit. If you don’t file in time, you may be prevented from going forward with your lawsuit.
------------

Fukin bureau-craps! Think they have UNLIMITED power, when in reality, they should have NO power. What a fukin pre-rigged system we have allowed these unelected (and elected) scumbags to do to us. Shame on us for being asleep, and allowing them to do this.

Time for pitchforks, torches, and barrels of tar and feathers!

Edit, I am done with this thread, BEFORE I get too PO'd to do any more productive work. rtalbigr, I am honestly very sorry. I do hope you can mix it up and get some form of retribution.

H.

Haven't read the thread, so apologies if I am repeating what others have already said.

Weigh the pros and cons very carefully. Sounds to me like the company is going to play hard on this one. Make sure you don't waste too much of your remaining years on extended legal battles.

Sometimes the best thing to do is just walk away.

Big R...really sorry to hear about your situation. Hope things work out for the better.

I have no advice...

But that just sucks.

Sorry to hear this.

Best luck for you man...

Thanks for the replies and advice. Believe me I definitely don't want to go back to work for those bastards and I will certainly be going for blood. I just downloaded the EEOC Intake Questionaire and will be mailing it at the earliest opportunity. The closest local office is about three hours drive. The company is also involved in a dispute with my union and their office is close to the EEOC office so I may stop and talk with my business agent, may throw a little more fuel on the fire. don't know.

Thx

Big R

Sorry to hear about the drama, rtalbigr... I hear about this type of thing all the time around where I live... The local corporations have a bad habit of shit-canning employees just before they are at retirement or pension age... Or when they think they can run a little leaner by replacing experienced employees with new ones at lower overhead expense rates... There is no loyalty in business these days... And they wonder why people end up going postal...

Big R,

This is really not good. And, being from the Netherlands, I cannot help. If only you were employed here. Workers have so many fail safes in Holland.

All I can tell you is make you dossier compleat. Send them a letter stating what they said to you about age discrimination. Not in big words, just try to replicate what was said. Send that letter by ... how is it called ... well, in such a way that you can prove afterwards they got it. If they forget to respond within 1 to 2 weeks, you have a case on discrimination ... I think.

And ... good luck, go get them, f*ck those bastards. And all the best to you. My thoughts go out for you. Don't know if it helps. Just want you to know I care.

Edwin.

We're in your corner Big R!

my best advice would be to contact your Union representative. what is the ratio if employees over the age of 55? have you noticed this trend in the past ? you can bet this will be happening a lot in the future with the ones locked in at higher pensions. we have a lot of soldiers coming home and a lot of gubberment incentives for companies to hire them on.

rtalbigr wrote:Thanks for the replies and advice. Believe me I definitely don't want to go back to work for those bastards and I will certainly be going for blood. I just downloaded the EEOC Intake Questionaire and will be mailing it at the earliest opportunity. The closest local office is about three hours drive. The company is also involved in a dispute with my union and their office is close to the EEOC office so I may stop and talk with my business agent, may throw a little more fuel on the fire. don't know.

Thx

Big R

that is the right track get your grievance filed as soon as possible many locals have a time limit and it is 3 days in most i have worked in.

I want to thank all of you for your support.

Kinda lost myself in our hobby today. Did a spirit run for some rye whisky, put together my next grain bill (5.75 lbs corn, 4.5 lbs malted rye, .75 lbs distillers malt X 27), steamed some rice and started some kome-koji to make some sake. It's good to have something you can lose yourself in when fate take a wrong turn. Got to talk with some good friends.

Once again, Thx

Big R

There you go Big R. Glad you could get your mind off of it for a bit. Sometimes its good to focus your attention away from things. It helps to clear things up. And its good for the body and soul. That's kinda what hobbies are for. I think.

Sake hmmm that sounds interesting. And even a little different from your norm.

Thx PP. Ya, a hobbie can take you away from the troubles of life. And thx Edwin, your sentiments are really appreciated.

As for Sake; it's kinda funny, my daughter is a Chinese nut but Sake is Japanese (I'm a terrible speller). So she's twisted the two together. Traditionally Sake is made in the winter because the best sake is cold fermented. Ya want temps around 50-55F for fermentation to reduce acidity and have a sweeter sake. Besides it's a LOT like doing an AG except ya don't do any distillin.

Big R

What's the weather like there Big R? Two wheel asphalt therapy is always the best. I think we are suppose to get to the 60s. To bad mine are in storage.

Damn, PP ya readin my mind? Been kinda cold and rainy but that's never stopped me before. Two wheel therapy has been heavy on my mind. Got plenty a time right now too.

Big R

No just know some of us get it and some don't. And I knew you did.

this sucks big r
but two wheels always helps, get on the state fishing team(unemployment) and go for a ride.
cause I would think if this is out of the blue your SOL with a law suit. they planed to dump you
for insurance or retierment.

is this a boycott,able company?