German Whiskey?

[BrooklynTech]

Is there such a thing?

I'm a home brewer and have been thinking of making a Scotch type whiskey using German grown malted barley. I can get "Munich" for $2 a pound. I've distilled some fruit before but never all grain. Thought I'd start out simple with a small batch.

6 lbs Munich Malt
4 gallons water
1 pack German Ale Yeast.

Place the grain in a 5 gallon cooler suspended in a paint strainer bag, (BIAB-Brew In A Bag beer method) and mash for an hour.
Drain the cooler and squeeze the last drops out of the bag.
Cool to 75*F and add the yeast
Give it a few weeks (3-4 usual for beer) and then run it through my 3 gallon pot still.

Whatcha think?

[Dnderhead]

German whiskey is fairly new and copied Irish/scotch/US others?

[BrooklynTech]

German whiskey is fairly new and copied Irish/scotch/US others?

That's what I figured. I've already done an "Imperial German IPA" using German malts so I figure next why not a whiskey. I'll
pick up the grain in a week or two.

Mahalo

[GuyIncognito]

I've made two batches of whiskey using munich malt as a base (with about 15% flaked maize and maybe 10-15% malted rye) which came out pretty good. To my taste the munich adds some richness compared to a 2-row base. A pretty subtle difference though compared to a lot of other factors you can play with. I did it because I had a 50# sack of munich I needed to clear out, wouldn't pay much of a premium over 2-row/pale malt for it though (think I paid $50/sack for it).

[Odin]

They do produce whisk(e)y in Germany nowadays. Hey, even in Belgium and Holland! Mostly it is not based on German (Belgium, Dutch) ingredients. Allmost everybody tries to duplicate Scottish single malt ... So it is malted barley and more malted barley.

But people I know in Holland use your grain bill, and it works fine, just fine!

Odin.

[King Of Hearts]

I guess you can. http://www.weyermann.de/eng/brprodukte_ ... &sprache=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Odin]

Great addition King!

They make some good, very good products over there! And if you are really interested: in (mainland) Europe a WK scale is used for determining diastatic power. Works a bit different to the American / Anglo-saxon equasion.

American Lenter style: 30 L = enough to convert its own. So 60 L = enough to convert it's own plus the same of an unmalted other grain.

European WK-style: around 100 WK = 30 L. So 300 WK diastatic power is like 90 Lenter.

In general: European diastatic power is much less than American.

A general rule: European rye malt has around 60 to 62 L. Single malt is around 70 to 90 L.

To be sure: European malted ruy is needed on a 50/50 basis next to non-malted grain. Sinlge (barley) malt can be used down to 33% / 67%. No less. Irish do like 50/50 malted/unmalted barley. And than add some 5% oats for sparging ... Well, that's what they say. I think it is for taste, because oats do attribute to that. A lot.

Odin.

[sparky marky]

Whisky made from munich sounds unusual in a good way!
Munich adds nice body and malty/biscuit flavours to my beers, I'd be interested to see what t did to whisky...

[BrooklynTech]

Ok I'm just about ready to go w/this. I'm going down Saturday to pick up 7 lbs of Munich Malt. I plan to mash it at about 147* for 1 hour w/approx 4.75 gallons of water. I expect to loose about 1/2 gallon of water to the grain leaving me w/4.25 gallons going into the boiler. I expect to loose about 3/4 gallons in the boil leaving w/me 3.5 gallons going into the fermenter and I hope to get about 2.8 gallons to my 3 gallon pot still.

Perhaps I'll get started next Monday but it's been very wind and I heat my boiler w/propane out doors. Strong wind tends to cool the brew and hard to keep a boil going. I have build sort of a wind screen around it w/plywood, but the wind gusts right now are 25-30 mph.

I'll report back when I begin.

[BrooklynTech]

Change of plans. Went down today and bought 2 five pound bags of Munich Malt. Two passes thru the mill as the mash will be done in a paint bag in a 5 gallon cooler. I've found I get higher efficiency if I run it thru the mill twice.

Converted my 5 gallon brewing kettle into a 5 gallon pot still w/a stainless mixing bowl and the column from my 3 gallon still.

Will mash the grain tomorrow and ferment what I hope will be about 4.5 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket w/airlock. I'm gonna use a pack of SafAle K-97 German Ale dry yeast. Trying to keep this as German as I can.

[King Of Hearts]

Change of plans. Went down today and bought 2 five pound bags of Munich Malt. Two passes thru the mill as the mash will be done in a paint bag in a 5 gallon cooler. I've found I get higher efficiency if I run it thru the mill twice.

Converted my 5 gallon brewing kettle into a 5 gallon pot still w/a stainless mixing bowl and the column from my 3 gallon still.

Will mash the grain tomorrow and ferment what I hope will be about 4.5 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket w/airlock. I'm gonna use a pack of SafAle K-97 German Ale dry yeast. Trying to keep this as German as I can.

Sounds like a plan, keeps us informed.

[BrooklynTech]

Did the mash today.
First run started w/3 gallons and 5 lbs malt. Tried a sparge w/about 1/4 gallon and result is 2.75 gallons at a SG of 1.028 sitting in a 5 gallon boiler.

Second run started same, 3 gallons/5 lbs, no sparge. Result is 2.5 gallons at an SG of 1.032 sitting in a 4 gallon boiler.

Since my largest boiler is 5 gallons I'm gonna boil the first down to at something below 2.5 gallons and then add the second batch. Plan is to wind up w/about 4.5-4.75 gallons to go into the fermenter.

Well, plan came out short. 4.25 gallons w/an SG after boiling of 1.042

Decided that was to low so I took out 1 gallon in another pot, boiled it and added 2 lbs sugar.

Now the SG is up to 1.062, 4.25 gallons into the fermenter about 8 p.m. Fermenter is in me "chest freezer" temp set to about 62 degrees. Time will tell the rest of the story.

[King Of Hearts]

To mash grain you only need 1 to 1.25 qts. of water per lb, sparge with .5 gal per lb of malt @ 170' temp over 30-45 mins. 1 lb of grain will potentially give you 1.034-35 gravity points.

[BrooklynTech]

To mash grain you only need 1 to 1.25 qts. of water per lb, sparge with .5 gal per lb of malt @ 170' temp over 30-45 mins. 1 lb of grain will potentially give you 1.034-35 gravity points.

thanks King, Something to keep in mind next round.

Hard to imagine 6.5 qts of water wetting 5 lbs of grain enough to mash, but I seem to remember seeing those numbers before. Seems I just diluted it to much and the result was low SG.

I guess mashing for whiskey is different than doing a BIAB for beer.

[King Of Hearts]

To mash grain you only need 1 to 1.25 qts. of water per lb, sparge with .5 gal per lb of malt @ 170' temp over 30-45 mins. 1 lb of grain will potentially give you 1.034-35 gravity points.

thanks King, Something to keep in mind next round.

Hard to imagine 6.5 qts of water wetting 5 lbs of grain enough to mash, but I seem to remember seeing those numbers before. Seems I just diluted it to much and the result was low SG.

I guess mashing for whiskey is different than doing a BIAB for beer.

I dont think it should make any difference. Longer sparge = higher efficency too.

[BrooklynTech]

To mash grain you only need 1 to 1.25 qts. of water per lb, sparge with .5 gal per lb of malt @ 170' temp over 30-45 mins. 1 lb of grain will potentially give you 1.034-35 gravity points.

thanks King, Something to keep in mind next round.

Hard to imagine 6.5 qts of water wetting 5 lbs of grain enough to mash, but I seem to remember seeing those numbers before. Seems I just diluted it to much and the result was low SG.

I guess mashing for whiskey is different than doing a BIAB for beer.

I dont think it should make any difference. Longer sparge = higher efficency too.

I'm use to doing BIAB small batches w/say 2.75 gal water and about 4.5 lbs of grain mashing those amounts in a 5 gallon cooler for 60 min. No sparge and I get about 74% efficiency. Perhaps w/the larger grain bill I might have to sparge.

[BrooklynTech]

Checked the SG yesterday. Started at 62 and it's down to 08. We are getting there. Will check again next week.

[BrooklynTech]

Checked again yesterday. It's still going down although slowly. Reading was .006 giving an ABV of 7.4.

[BrooklynTech]

Got antsy and made the run yesterday on the 5 gal pot still. Results are about 45 oz of hearts from 3.75 gallons of wort.

Was getting a little of an oily looking stuff floating on the liker so I used a coffee filter to filter each of the 8 oz bottles. Each had about 5 oz. Now they all look pretty clear and clean. the low % were nice to drink/sip

Gonna go buy 12 lbs more malt Thursday and ferment a second batch. Perhaps I'll have close to a gallon for the small oak barrel I was givin.

Here is a picture. Ya can't see the liker, but you can see the numbers.

[BrooklynTech]

Did another round today. This time bought 12 lbs of the Munich malt and split it into two mashes. Then combined and boiled down to 4.25 gallons from 4.6. SG is 1.080, added 1 pack US 05 yeast and put it in a 5 gallon bucket w/air lock. This time I'm gonna give it more than two weeks. If I get down to 1.010 I should have about 9% alcohol to distill.

I used the 3.75 gallons of backset I had from the first round for the mash. Divided it into equal patches and added water to get to 2.75 gallons to mash the 6 lbs of grain. Did the same for the other 6 lbs. Don't think I'll have to add sugar this time.

[BrooklynTech]

Well the SG is steady for two weeks at 1.024. Could be stalled, but heck I'm gonna distill it anyway. Wash is only about 5.5% and I have about 3.3 gallons.

Just collected 5.3 oz of forshots and working on the heads now.

Here is a picture of the still. Got a flannel shirt around the column as the wind keeps lowering the temp when it blows strong.

http://www.waianaecrider.com/Brewing/IMAG0760.jpg

This is a close up of the digital thermometer plugged in at the top of the 1 1/2 " portion of the column.

http://www.waianaecrider.com/Brewing/IMAG0759.jpg

And a short video of the slow drip at that temp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWexbIAf ... e=youtu.be

Seems I should increase the heat (2000W hotplate) to get a better drip but temp will rise close to 200*. I know we don't cut by temp, but why is it so high?

[Odin]

Maybe not enough reflux?

Temps near the top of your fractionating still are governed by the purity of the gasses traveling by, not by the heat input.

If you run a potstill, you will get higher temps and temps that are rising as your output gets lower in ABV.

On a "German" whiskey, you would want to use a potstill and see higher temps and rising temps.

2,000 Watts (and needing more) seems like very, very much on only a few gallons of wash.

I run my potstill with a 35 liter charge at around 1,000 Watts on a spirit run.

Maybe your hotplate is cylcing?

Odin.

[BrooklynTech]

Maybe not enough reflux?

Temps near the top of your fractionating still are governed by the purity of the gasses traveling by, not by the heat input.

If you run a potstill, you will get higher temps and temps that are rising as your output gets lower in ABV.

On a "German" whiskey, you would want to use a potstill and see higher temps and rising temps.

2,000 Watts (and needing more) seems like very, very much on only a few gallons of wash.

I run my potstill with a 35 liter charge at around 1,000 Watts on a spirit run.

Maybe your hotplate is cylcing?

Odin.

thanks Odin for the comments. 2000 w it max and I'm running at less than half on the number scale on the heat control. the hotplate thermostat which is not adjustable by temp only by the numbers on the dial cycles on and off as it tries to maintain a constant temp.
There is a slow rise in temp as the day goes one. Stopped at about 208* and about 35% ABV. Wound up w/about 30 oz of Hearts. Got another 16 of tails and 5 of heads that will be added to my faints collection. Got about 1 gallon of faints now.

I'm gonna do one more run w/14 lbs of Munich Malt and that should give me a total of say 1 gallon for three ferments and distalations. Then I'll put it all in the 1 gallon oak barrel I have and see what happens.

Thanks again. For a while I thought would get no comments as was up for a few day w/a number of reads but no one had anything to say. :0)

[BrooklynTech]

Picked up 14 more lbs of Munich Malt the other day. Plan to mash next week in two 7 lb batches and boil the total down to about 4.5 gallons which should give me about 4.25 gallons into the still when it's done fermenting.

[GuyIncognito]

I'd posted earlier in the thread about making some munich malt based whiskey, wanted to give an update as I took it off oak yesterday and blended it down. I bet you are in for a treat with the stuff you're making! Initially it was quite hard for me to pick out any significant difference between the batches I'd made using 2-row/pale ale malt and munich, so I assumed not much flavor made it over. Now that they are all 9-14 months old, it is somewhat more apparent - the munich is a fair shade fruitier in the nose, closer to a bourbon/american whiskey than the 2-row version. It also has a broader palette, with a somewhat denser flavor and longer finish. I aged the munich portion on 3 different oak treatments (using some oak cubes from the homebrew store) a version using french oak cubes, french oak boiled briefly in 2 changes of water, and french oak soaked in port. The boiled french oak was the winner, the unboiled version was a bit too much wood and masked some of the spirits flavor.

I'm quite pleased with the results, it's definitely a subtle difference but if the price was close to 1:1 with regular malt I would choose munich again as a base. Next time I'd like to smoke a portion of the malt - i did this for the Breakfast Stout the other 1/2 sack went into and it had a beautiful flavor. The munich seemed to hold up against the smoke much better than 2-row, and didn't get as astringent.

[BrooklynTech]

Well the SG is steady for two weeks at 1.024. Could be stalled, but heck I'm gonna distill it anyway. Wash is only about 5.5% and I have about 3.3 gallons.

Just collected 5.3 oz of forshots and working on the heads now.

Here is a picture of the still. Got a flannel shirt around the column as the wind keeps lowering the temp when it blows strong.

http://www.waianaecrider.com/Brewing/IMAG0760.jpg

This is a close up of the digital thermometer plugged in at the top of the 1 1/2 " portion of the column.

http://www.waianaecrider.com/Brewing/IMAG0759.jpg

And a short video of the slow drip at that temp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWexbIAf ... e=youtu.be

Seems I should increase the heat (2000W hotplate) to get a better drip but temp will rise close to 200*. I know we don't cut by temp, but why is it so high?

Well this was done some weeks ago and aired for a few days. Not it sits in an old wine bottle at about 35%. Taste is quite harsh. The first batch is really smooth and is also sitting in a wine bottle.

[BrooklynTech]

Working on the third batch today. I have two bags of Munich Malt, 7 lbs each. I'm using 3 gallons of water w/e batch.

Mashed the first right now at 140* for an hour. SG is 1.058
Poured the wort thru the grain twice. I'm "mashing" in a bag in a 5 gallon cooler. SG for 2.5 gallons is 66 and I have to boil off 1/4 gallon.

The second 7 lbs is now mashing again in 3 gallons of water.

Ok finished the second batch
SG for 2.5 gallons is 1.062

Combined this w/the first 2.5 gallons and boiled if for an hour reducing it to 4.25 gallons which I'm gonna add the yeast when it cools off. 4.25 gallons should be just the right amount of liquid for my 5 gallon pot still.

After the boil and using refractometer I get a Brix reading of 25. WOW didn't expect that high. SG=1.106.
I only was planning to use my last pack of Safale K-97 German Ale yeast but didn't expect numbers to be this high. Do you think it will be enough?

I also have lots of SO4 and 05. I could use the 97 and order more to add when it arrives? Please advise while things are cooling down for the next 2 hours or so.

Thanks

[BrooklynTech]

Working on the third batch today. I have two bags of Munich Malt, 7 lbs each. I'm using 3 gallons of water w/e batch.

Mashed the first right now at 140* for an hour. SG is 1.058
Poured the wort thru the grain twice. I'm "mashing" in a bag in a 5 gallon cooler. SG for 2.5 gallons is 66 and I have to boil off 1/4 gallon.

The second 7 lbs is now mashing again in 3 gallons of water.

Ok finished the second batch
SG for 2.5 gallons is 1.062

Combined this w/the first 2.5 gallons and boiled if for an hour reducing it to 4.25 gallons which I'm gonna add the yeast when it cools off. 4.25 gallons should be just the right amount of liquid for my 5 gallon pot still.

After the boil and using refractometer I get a Brix reading of 25. WOW didn't expect that high. SG=1.106.
I only was planning to use my last pack of Safale K-97 German Ale yeast but didn't expect numbers to be this high. Do you think it will be enough?

I also have lots of SO4 and 05. I could use the 97 and order more to add when it arrives? Please advise while things are cooling down for the next 2 hours or so.

Thanks

BUMP

[BrooklynTech]

After combining the two batches and boiling it down to 4.25 gal the Brix was about 22. Man that's a lot of sugar.

Added 1 1/2 packs Safeale K-97 last night and put it out on the back deck around 11 pm.

This morning at 7 it was bubbling like CRAZY, and the sun was shining on it.

Moved it to the freezer/fermenter about 715.

Checked about 3 pm today and at a freezer temp of 65* it was still going crazy and lucky me no crap up the air lock. Only CO2.

[Odin]

Any news?