One more question.
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chilirainbow
- Novice
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- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:35 am
One more question.
Do I use pipe, or tubing for the column?
Oooo let me QUote the famous Tator....
Have you read
http://homedistiller.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Have you read
http://homedistiller.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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hornedrhodent
- Rumrunner
- Posts: 732
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:42 am
- Location: Nth coast NSW
Re: One more question.
chilirainbow wrote:Do I use pipe, or tubing for the column?
Either - as long as it has a hole up the centre.
Enlikil wrote:Oooo let me QUote the famous Tator....
Have you read
http://homedistiller.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Thats Mr Tater to you bootleggers I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper
Asking what YOU should build YOUR rig out of presumes that WE know YOUR experience, skill levels, available tools and equipment
and what materials you have available to you....
ASIDE FROM the multiple obvious attempts th get you to read the homepage again, there are facets of design "philosophy" missing that leave some of the "instructions" without "soul"
I'll take the time to inject some philosophy:
What you design and build your "rig" out of should not be based on what everyone else has done, build it out of the materials you have available
and with a joining method that is within your mechanical abilities to work
(cut,trim or shape) and more importantly Join, connect, seal, weld, solder or braze....
IF you are mechanically competent and are familiar with threads there is no good reason you couldn't build it all out of threaded pipe (presuming suitable material) instead of soldering, Brazing or silver-brazing copper "pipe" (which is really rigid tubing, but it's called pipe anyway)
OTOH you may be a skilled TIG welder and can easily assemble the entire rig out of 316L stainless tubing and joining everything with Alfa-Laval/Tri-Clover sanitary connections (most commonly used in the dairy and brewing industries)
Asking what YOU should build YOUR rig out of presumes that WE know YOUR experience, skill levels, available tools and equipment
and what materials you have available to you....
the primary advantages of copper pipe are:
1)Availablity as it is commonly used in houshold plumbing
2)it's easily cut as copper is a soft metal
3)Connection fittings are available in a wide selection of configuirations
4)It's easily joined by several methods
5)It is a HIGHLY desirable material for several less obvious reasons
(beyond the scope of this post)
It's prime disadvantage is cost, but if you've checked the price of thin-wall 316L stainless sanitary pipe lately, copper seems like a bargain....
Of course you could be an aerospace engineer who started as a welder in the Lockheed "Skunk works" and you have the materials tools and skills necissary to build an elaborate reflux still completely from Titanium (another "suitable" material) and fire it up with a Jet of
burning Penta-Borane.... admiring the green flame while chanting druid incantations in properly pronounced ancient celtic.... (From inside your personally fitted space suit so the toxic fumes don't kill you)
And if I haven't mentioned this before:
Asking what YOU should build YOUR rig out of presumes that WE know YOUR experience, skill levels, available tools and equipment
and what materials you have available to you....
NOW I'll ask the obligatory question: Have you read EVERYTHING on Homedistiller.org?
AllanD
and what materials you have available to you....
ASIDE FROM the multiple obvious attempts th get you to read the homepage again, there are facets of design "philosophy" missing that leave some of the "instructions" without "soul"
I'll take the time to inject some philosophy:
What you design and build your "rig" out of should not be based on what everyone else has done, build it out of the materials you have available
and with a joining method that is within your mechanical abilities to work
(cut,trim or shape) and more importantly Join, connect, seal, weld, solder or braze....
IF you are mechanically competent and are familiar with threads there is no good reason you couldn't build it all out of threaded pipe (presuming suitable material) instead of soldering, Brazing or silver-brazing copper "pipe" (which is really rigid tubing, but it's called pipe anyway)
OTOH you may be a skilled TIG welder and can easily assemble the entire rig out of 316L stainless tubing and joining everything with Alfa-Laval/Tri-Clover sanitary connections (most commonly used in the dairy and brewing industries)
Asking what YOU should build YOUR rig out of presumes that WE know YOUR experience, skill levels, available tools and equipment
and what materials you have available to you....
the primary advantages of copper pipe are:
1)Availablity as it is commonly used in houshold plumbing
2)it's easily cut as copper is a soft metal
3)Connection fittings are available in a wide selection of configuirations
4)It's easily joined by several methods
5)It is a HIGHLY desirable material for several less obvious reasons
(beyond the scope of this post)
It's prime disadvantage is cost, but if you've checked the price of thin-wall 316L stainless sanitary pipe lately, copper seems like a bargain....
Of course you could be an aerospace engineer who started as a welder in the Lockheed "Skunk works" and you have the materials tools and skills necissary to build an elaborate reflux still completely from Titanium (another "suitable" material) and fire it up with a Jet of
burning Penta-Borane.... admiring the green flame while chanting druid incantations in properly pronounced ancient celtic.... (From inside your personally fitted space suit so the toxic fumes don't kill you)
And if I haven't mentioned this before:
Asking what YOU should build YOUR rig out of presumes that WE know YOUR experience, skill levels, available tools and equipment
and what materials you have available to you....
NOW I'll ask the obligatory question: Have you read EVERYTHING on Homedistiller.org?
AllanD
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junkyard dawg
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 3086
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:40 am
- Location: Texas
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TRANSPLANTED HILLBILLY
- Rumrunner
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:42 pm
- Location: Above the clouds!
Yes indeed, nicely said. I believe Allan D may very well be the most eloquent smart ass we have on the board. Is there a teaching background? If so it would be college level for sure. Kids today would go home screaming and crying after something like that! 
If it was easy everybody would do it.
Please join the Partnership For an Idiot Free World.
Please join the Partnership For an Idiot Free World.
Don't believe for a minute I'm delivering it in a "Mr.Spock" voice
(Ok yeah, ya got me
OR that I'm trying to convey that I was under ragged control on the WRONG SIDE of "impending disaster" from laughing hysterically and peeing myself from reading my own wit in type... (I typed it probably wearing my best "deadpan" poker face
The truth is "we" (in the true collective sense) don't have any idea of the skills, experience, available tools & Materials that "chilirainbow" can bring to bear on the design, fabrication, completion and operation of his distilling apparatus.... atleast I don't, so my whole previous reply was basically an elaborate circumlocution to get at inviting "chilirainbow"
to tell us about what experience/materials-etc, ad naseum, he has available to him... so that "we" have additional clues to use in giving him a useable answer to his question....
For myself...
I live in an aera where there are many competing scrap metal dealers
who are cooperative about letting me pillage their metals for materials
or anything I might find of interest....and have reasonable rates (by weight) that vary by material... (typically I get stainless for <$0.50/lb)
I recently bought a 9foot length of 0.065wall 3" OD 316L stainless tubing
for a whopping $12 and I was actually "bitched out" that there weren't 3" triclover flanges already welded to it... (Though I suspect there WERE and someone cut them off)
But what really ticked my off was that there was an 8foot length of 3" Inconel (Inco720) tube and someone ran it over with a forklift
(a honking BIG forklift) and squished it like a bug
and no, I haven't figuired out how I'm going to use that big piece of tube yet, but it'd make a HELL of a column if I left it in one piece
I'll take the "eloquence" comment as a complement and run for the hills:)
AllanD
(Ok yeah, ya got me
OR that I'm trying to convey that I was under ragged control on the WRONG SIDE of "impending disaster" from laughing hysterically and peeing myself from reading my own wit in type... (I typed it probably wearing my best "deadpan" poker face
The truth is "we" (in the true collective sense) don't have any idea of the skills, experience, available tools & Materials that "chilirainbow" can bring to bear on the design, fabrication, completion and operation of his distilling apparatus.... atleast I don't, so my whole previous reply was basically an elaborate circumlocution to get at inviting "chilirainbow"
to tell us about what experience/materials-etc, ad naseum, he has available to him... so that "we" have additional clues to use in giving him a useable answer to his question....
For myself...
I live in an aera where there are many competing scrap metal dealers
who are cooperative about letting me pillage their metals for materials
or anything I might find of interest....and have reasonable rates (by weight) that vary by material... (typically I get stainless for <$0.50/lb)
I recently bought a 9foot length of 0.065wall 3" OD 316L stainless tubing
for a whopping $12 and I was actually "bitched out" that there weren't 3" triclover flanges already welded to it... (Though I suspect there WERE and someone cut them off)
But what really ticked my off was that there was an 8foot length of 3" Inconel (Inco720) tube and someone ran it over with a forklift
(a honking BIG forklift) and squished it like a bug
and no, I haven't figuired out how I'm going to use that big piece of tube yet, but it'd make a HELL of a column if I left it in one piece
I'll take the "eloquence" comment as a complement and run for the hills:)
AllanD
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chilirainbow
- Novice
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:35 am
Nice reply Alan.
But I should have asked the question in a different manner. Maby I should have asked: Which is the most commonly used, pipe or tubing?
As for my background, I am a process operator at an oil refinery. Distillation is what i do, but on a much larger scale.
I thank everyone for their replys, even the smart-ass ones. These make my time here fun.
I have read the homedistiller.org site several times, and will continue to read it. I have settled on stainless tubing, as stainless is easier to find and cheeper, with tri-clamp fittings. I have enough welding friends to attach everything, so I won't have to learn to weld.
This is a great site, keep up the great work, and I'll keep reading it.
Thanks
But I should have asked the question in a different manner. Maby I should have asked: Which is the most commonly used, pipe or tubing?
As for my background, I am a process operator at an oil refinery. Distillation is what i do, but on a much larger scale.
I thank everyone for their replys, even the smart-ass ones. These make my time here fun.
I have read the homedistiller.org site several times, and will continue to read it. I have settled on stainless tubing, as stainless is easier to find and cheeper, with tri-clamp fittings. I have enough welding friends to attach everything, so I won't have to learn to weld.
This is a great site, keep up the great work, and I'll keep reading it.
Thanks
And there you go....
I think by and large the average builder uses copper because you can get it at the nearest Home Depot/Lowes building supply...
Of failing that any well stocked hardware store...
SOME of us (myself included) are scroungers, some better than others...
(anyone interested in a 6ft length of 0.030" wall CP titanium with a spatter /plasma deposited platinum coating inside it? never mind that's for use as exhaust pipe on my race car:)
I build my first (passive) reflux column out of copper because it was easier to "prototype" what I wanted in copper FIRST, and worst case if you screw-up with copper still (no pun included) cut it up and sell it
as #1 copper scrap for about a buck a pound...
But if you can work with tri-clamp connected stainless that's definatly a good way to fly.... remember to spring the extra cash
for the teflon gaskets, even though they don't always seal as well (unless you get the clamp screws REALLY tight) they last forever, the Buna-N gaskets do not... (I decline to answer how I know that in deference to my rights under the 5th ammedment of the constitution
BTW, if anyone anywhere knows any good druid chants or anyone who uses penta-borane as a fuel to heat a still I'd like to hear about it...
(the former because it might be "neat", the latter so I can be on another continent or 2000miles away, whichever is greater)
AllanD
I think by and large the average builder uses copper because you can get it at the nearest Home Depot/Lowes building supply...
Of failing that any well stocked hardware store...
SOME of us (myself included) are scroungers, some better than others...
(anyone interested in a 6ft length of 0.030" wall CP titanium with a spatter /plasma deposited platinum coating inside it? never mind that's for use as exhaust pipe on my race car:)
I build my first (passive) reflux column out of copper because it was easier to "prototype" what I wanted in copper FIRST, and worst case if you screw-up with copper still (no pun included) cut it up and sell it
as #1 copper scrap for about a buck a pound...
But if you can work with tri-clamp connected stainless that's definatly a good way to fly.... remember to spring the extra cash
for the teflon gaskets, even though they don't always seal as well (unless you get the clamp screws REALLY tight) they last forever, the Buna-N gaskets do not... (I decline to answer how I know that in deference to my rights under the 5th ammedment of the constitution
BTW, if anyone anywhere knows any good druid chants or anyone who uses penta-borane as a fuel to heat a still I'd like to hear about it...
(the former because it might be "neat", the latter so I can be on another continent or 2000miles away, whichever is greater)
AllanD
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hornedrhodent
- Rumrunner
- Posts: 732
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:42 am
- Location: Nth coast NSW
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chilirainbow
- Novice
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:35 am
In my part of the world, pipe is measured by schedule (10, 40, 80 ..etc) can be threaded, and is pressure rated. As for tubing, it's usualy thinner walled, non threaded, and not rated for very much pressure.
Take a look here. This is where I used to buy metals when I made knives.
Checkout some of the different pipes and tubing to see the differences.
http://www.onlinemetals.com/app_groups.cfm?step=2&id=4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Take a look here. This is where I used to buy metals when I made knives.
Checkout some of the different pipes and tubing to see the differences.
http://www.onlinemetals.com/app_groups.cfm?step=2&id=4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
With the exception of Copper water "pipe" the main difference is wall thickness....
"Pipe" in general is either directly threaded to joint it to other pieces of pipe with some sort of female threaded fitting...
"tube" is usually joined without threads, usually via "compression" fittings
or by unthreaded lap joints and some sort of dis-similar metal bonding
(Soldering for copper "pipe" or silver-brazing of stainless tubing...
Though some "pipe" is joined by directly "butt welding" it together...
but then again tubing can be joined the same way...
Then there is Plastic water pipe (usually PVC but smaller sized designed for hot water supply or drains from hot water using appliances like washing machines and automatic dishwashers is usually CPVC) that is never directly threaded but instead joined with glued joints...
Another differentiation is that "tubing" is frequently bent or curved (somethimes into rather complex shapes) where pipe usually is left straight and any changes of direction is accomplished by using preformed fittings.... but even this isn't an ironclad rule....
It's a confusing discussion because of ambiguous and overlapping terminology and the meaning of each term is largely based on context and varied by local usage....
I'd say "I hope I made things clear", but I believe I've probably muddied the waters even further... but I can hope that I have shed some light.....
AllanD
"Pipe" in general is either directly threaded to joint it to other pieces of pipe with some sort of female threaded fitting...
"tube" is usually joined without threads, usually via "compression" fittings
or by unthreaded lap joints and some sort of dis-similar metal bonding
(Soldering for copper "pipe" or silver-brazing of stainless tubing...
Though some "pipe" is joined by directly "butt welding" it together...
but then again tubing can be joined the same way...
Then there is Plastic water pipe (usually PVC but smaller sized designed for hot water supply or drains from hot water using appliances like washing machines and automatic dishwashers is usually CPVC) that is never directly threaded but instead joined with glued joints...
Another differentiation is that "tubing" is frequently bent or curved (somethimes into rather complex shapes) where pipe usually is left straight and any changes of direction is accomplished by using preformed fittings.... but even this isn't an ironclad rule....
It's a confusing discussion because of ambiguous and overlapping terminology and the meaning of each term is largely based on context and varied by local usage....
I'd say "I hope I made things clear", but I believe I've probably muddied the waters even further... but I can hope that I have shed some light.....
AllanD