If you could add anything you wanted to your boiler.....

rezaxis · Post by **rezaxis** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:36 am

What would you install? What type get ons and get outs, and doo-dads and bells and whistles would you have on there?

I just got my boiler. It's a blank canvas...

Rez

markx · Post by **markx** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:18 am

Well......I got a stainless ball valve on my boiler that I attach a water pump to for fast and easy dumping of stripped washes. A screw on stainless connector for attaching the column and a secondary capped opening that can be used to add or remove liquid from boiler without removing the column. There could also be an optional fitting for a thermometer so you can monitor the temperature of the wash and a gadget for monitoring the niveau of liquids so you don't overfill the boiler (something like the ones attached to coffee machines).

drunk2much · Post by **drunk2much** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:43 pm

A sight galss and a dump out valve would do me fine.

CAMEL_Joe · Post by **CAMEL_Joe** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:00 am

a six pack of strippers and some, well strippers is all I need
make the time go buy faster

AllanD · Post by **AllanD** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:45 pm

INSTRUMENTATION!!!

Add DIAL type thermometers EVERYWHERE!!!

I can see an excuse for atleast two thermometers in the column

If you run "cold traps" anywhere in your system (commonly mis-called and more importantly "misued" as "thumpers") put an additional thermometer in the outlet of each one...

Another at the INLET to the condenser might be neat...

It's kinda cool to be able to tell the status of the entire system
by looking at a few temperature dials...

AllanD

rezaxis · Post by **rezaxis** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:57 am

Lets see, we got a sight glass, a charging port, a drain with pump, a level alarm, and thermometers everywhere. I can't forget the six strippers! Might cause an unsafe distilling enviroment, but I might be willing to take that chance! Thanks for the responses.

My boiler has a full diameter opening at the top, so an explanation of the charging port would be appreciated. I plan on measureing the temp of the contents of the boiler and using that to control the gas burner. Also a high temp alarm to cut the gas if that temp gets too high. A drain and pump seems like a good idea, but if it'll only hold 10 gallons (37 litres) max, do I really need it? Handles seem like a good idea to me.

If you could use any one temperature measurement to control the gas burner, what temperature would you use? The temp where the vapor is as it enters the condensor, or the temp of the contents of the boiler? I can also choose a high limit of this same temp to use as a safety.

Thanks all for your input.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:37 am

I don't think I would control the gas with the temperature at all. why would you want that in the first place? You don't want thermostat cycling. A safety shutoff may be a good idea but there are a lot easier ways to do that on a still this size...(hint...don't walk away from it)

I think a pressure activated gas shutoff....foaming up and getting column blockage has always been a worry.

possum · Post by **possum** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:12 am

I'm with drunk2much,
A sight galss and a dump out valve would do me fine.
Any other doo dads like a thumper mounted collumn or pumace steamer would be downstream, I already have the fill hole, but it is too small to refill on the grain distillations.

Post by **golden pond** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:34 pm

I have a drain trap on mine with a ball valve, on my last run I can screw a garden hose on, turn the valve on and drain every single drop of my slop out on the ground.

Have two temp/ pressure gages, one that reads the liquid and the other reads my vapor. Also have a brass quick disconnect between my filler cap and copper worm, so I have no fittings to unscrew or cross thread

My SS filler cap I made is 4" in diameter and I threaded it 12 TPI with tapered pipe threads, it seals great so no gaskets, O-rings or flour paste. My natural gas burners are electric controlled with pilot lights ( just hope no power faliure during a run) Maybe next year, I'll rig a pump from cooker to mash barrel so I don't use a bucket to put backset back in mash barrel.

Post by **Uncle Jesse** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:01 pm

i have a 1lb pressure blow-off valve just in case

rezaxis · Post by **rezaxis** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:16 pm

Thanks for watching this thread for all you responses. I guess I like to over complicate everything, but I gots this fancy commercial boiler controller fer nuthin' and I would be cheatin' my cheap soul if I didn't try to use it! It's capable of maintaining a 1F range with PID logic and I got all the stuff for nothing except the modulating motor for the gas valve, and I'll get that soon. This is where my question about which temperature to use to control the gas valve comes from. Vapor temp or boiler contents temp?

Besides the temperature control, it has a relay output that I can use for the safeties, which would be 1. if the power goes out, the gas shuts off. 2. If the whole rig tips over, the gas shuts off. 3. If the flame goes out, the gas shuts off. 4. If there is an over temp in the boiler, or somewhere, the gas shuts off.

I WILL NEVER leave the thing unattended, that just makes real good sense to me, but to quote Justin Wilson "I'm a safety man. I wear a belt AND suspenders!"

It's gonna be an offset condenser, valved reflux thing that I'm going to modify so I can remove the pot scrubber section if I want to. I'm gonna put some handles on it, top and bottom, and a drain on it for sure, and a pump is looking like a real good thing, but I'm STILL

confused about the charging port. OK, I'm a new guy and I don't know nuthin' but are you guys saying you fill and/or remove stuff from your boiler while in the middle of a run? How's all that work. I don't get it...

Rez

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:38 am

sounds like some fun toys you have to play with... but I'm still confused about why you want that kind of control on the still. I think I would use that to control a mash pot and fermenter. Like some of the beer makers have...check out sabco's brewing system... The still doesn't need any temperature control...it will come up to temperature and change slowly on its own. The only time you will need to change the gas flow is when you turn it down after a heatup period. After that its a steady low flame Thats an awful lot of automation to just control one adjustment.

or am I just confused??...

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:43 am

this is where I'd put that kind of controller...add an automatic stirrer and away you go.

http://www.kegs.com/brewmagic1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

rezaxis · Post by **rezaxis** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:24 pm

To everyone and Mr dawg, thank for your responses. Cool link too! That's a sweet rig for sure.

You might be confused because an ignorant person is asking for answers to probably ignorant questions. That ignorant person is ME! I never done any of this stuff before, so I'm just wingin' my way along. As I won't be able to see into the boiler once the process starts, I was finguring that precise boiling control would be a good thing, and that I might acheive that with the controller I have. Maybe I don't even need it. It would appear to be the case from your reponse. I'm OK with that.

I'm into all kinds of gizmos. It's part of what has drawn me to this project. A still can be one big gizmo. I'm not after a cheap sourch of hooch. I can afford to drink. The whole process fascinates me, and the "do it yourself" aspect of it suits me just fine too.

I think I can, with some help, make not only an interesting still (to me anyways), but also make a quality end product that I can be really proud of.

I'm still collecting parts so who can say what my end result will be.

Thanks again

rezaxis · Post by **rezaxis** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:43 pm

So if this fancy *ssed controller I got would be better suited applied somewhere else in this distilling process, I would appreciate any input as to how I SHOULD use it.

I'll admit right now I haven't researched the "how to make the stuff that goes into the boiler" end of this deal very well. That's not to say I haven't read a LOT of information, if not all of whats on Taters links and this entire forum and others, but I can say for sure I haven't soaked it all up yet. There is a bunch of info out there on the 'nets.

Rez

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:46 pm

well, I don't wanna discourage you from making anything you want... a digitally controlled still would be really slick. I'd love to have that level of sophistication in my still. but i don't... (some here do) And make no mistake, I'm no expert... I don't know much about any other still designs than my own...also an offset head design. For what I make theres no need for that kind of control. Where that would be nice is in the mashing side of the process. To have automatic process control over mashing would save gallons of sweat for summertime hootch making...

so welcome here... you'll be making fine shine in no time...

Pieterpost · Post by **Pieterpost** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:16 pm

I didn't read all of the posts above but something I would like to add to my boiler is insulation.

This should save on costs for heating and also keeping the environment in mind it would mean less pollution.

markx · Post by **markx** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:11 pm

I wrap my boiler into a thick blanket when distilling. Serves pretty good for insulation. Also I've noticed from the pictures on the forum that most of the columns seem to be bare and lack insulation. That seriously disturbs the equilibrium during distillation as changes in ambient temperature take effect very sharply. My column is covered in tube insulation in full height.

absinthe · Post by **absinthe** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:27 pm

http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.kaboodle.com/bix/Homebrewing ... iques.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
some very good H.E.R.M.S easy to make at home but the PID controller is the most expensive second is the pump

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:37 pm

thanks for those links absinthe... That led to hours of reading and linking and an even stronger desire to build a whiskey mashing machine....

rezaxis · Post by **rezaxis** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:58 am

Yeah Absinthe, good stuff! I'm still checking it all out.... and beginning to reconsider few things too.

Hackers · Post by **Hackers** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:41 am

The temperature you are wanting to control using the PID controller (lucky you) is at the condensor head. In this way unlike using a dimmer switch or themostat you will have no cycling on/off to worry about.

For those that don't know a PID controller is in basic terms a predictive controller. As the temperature nears the set temperature it slowly lowers the amount of power delivered to the element therby providing very precise temperature control with no overshooting.

Can be accurate to 0.1 degree F.

Post by **Tater** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:23 am

Dimmer switches dont cycle

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:24 am

and am I missing something here....

You cannot control the temperature at the condensor by varying the power to the element.

rezaxis · Post by **rezaxis** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:08 pm

I've been away, but it's good to see there is still some interest in this topic.

I've been cogitatin' on this for a while now, and wondering what to do. I'm definatley shooting for a pot still that can be converted to a valved reflux. I know that much anyways. The UJ sour mash is looking like the way to go.

So, I can't control the boil (natural gas) using the vapor temp at the entrance to the condensor, as the temperature of the vapor during the initial stabilization period would always be too low because the foreshots would still be present and I would over fire = Puke.

Or, seeing as the temperature in the boiler would be continuously rising as more ethyl etc. vapors evaporate, I'm not sure trying to maintain a temp here is possible either = Stall. BUT, I may be wrong here and would like to know if I am, so feel free to clue me...

My original goal was to 1. Use the damn controller for something! 2. Try to prevent any possible puking, but bring it all up to temp quick and then just gently evaporate alcohol. 3. Try to incorporate the controllers high temp limit capabilities to act as a safety. 4. Try to shoot for a completely repeatable process. Looks like I'm losing 4 for 4.

But, as some have mentioned, it is VERY desirable to accurately maintain a temperature in the fermentation tank! Maybe thats where I need to use this thing, even though I have a modulating motor to control a gas valve now too...

Hmmm, maybe I can convert my Weber....... or, just as I can buy stuff on Ebay, so I can sell things too. Your opinions are appreciated.

speedfreaksteve · Post by **speedfreaksteve** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:09 pm

I've thought about building my dream still one of these days:

Here's the features I'd like to add:

-built-in alcohol hydrometer at the end, or even better make an electronic equivalent (I've seen at least still on here that had the built-in spot for the hydrometer)

-electronic temperature probes in two different locations (easy to do and sometimes the parts can be found fairly cheap)

-interchangeable tower between packed reflux or open (working on this right now)

-recycled cooling system

-solenoid valve connected to the propane tubing to shut things down completely once a certain temperature is reached (good safeguard against getting too much tails, or when leaving things unattended). Could alernatively connect it to an electronic alcohol hydrometer to shut things down once the output is too low of a specific gravity.

rezaxis · Post by **rezaxis** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:46 pm

Hey SFS,

I'm making one of the contraptions for measuring ABV % with a alcometer, but it's going to be a stand alone thing.

Questions:
In what two places do you want to have electronic temperature measurements taken? And why those two places?

I'm only measuring vapor temp. My PID controller only has one temperature input, 'cause it's the cheap model.

My still, if I ever finish it will be essentially a pot still that can be converted to a valved reflux (I can't see my self having more than one of these things!)

I've been researching the computer geek overclockers forums and they have some interesting ideas for recycled cooling using a cheap 5200BTU A/C unit from Walmart. I'm headed that way too 'cause I got to pay for water.

My PID controller has a high temp alarm with relay output that I can use to shut things down or whatever. But I've gotten conflicting opinions on here about vapor temp as a control variable. I haven't distilled anything before so at this point I can't argue with anybody.

Anyway, it looks like we're thinkin' alike on what a still can be. You've done this before so I feel like I'm on the right track.

speedfreaksteve · Post by **speedfreaksteve** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:45 pm

I already have a standalone tube to fill with distillate and then drop my alcohol hydrometer in (as I'm sure most of you do). The point of having an integrated well to sit the hydrometer into is to monitor the purity coming out on the fly. That way you don't have to keep frequently testing throughout a run, and also will know when its a good time to shut things down like when you're getting 40% or less purity coming out.

I would like to monitor the temps in both the usual place (top of the column) and also perhaps 8" below it. That would just give me a better idea for what's going on, especially when you're trying to create an equillibrium.

For reusing coolant, I would just like to have a large vat 100L or so of water/antifreeze mix that should be able to cool itself if circulated enough. In the winter I would just recirculate things to a vat or tank outside since the air should cool it down enough. I'm just not sure how much liquid I would need to accomplish this. Of course, I could be total out to lunch about the feasibility of this working.

As for interchangability, I would recommend just building the still first and getting some experience with it before worrying about that. The more you know, the smarter you will be when you make something interchangable. Besides, I've rebuilt my still completely 3 times because I kept wanting a bigger and bigger diameter for the main column (I'm now up to 2"). I'm also sure that I'll be building/rebuilding more times yet.

I'm really considering also building a purpose built still just for the purpose of stripping a wash. Using a temp probe, controller, and electric heat. Other than that, it would be a very basic design. That way it would be pretty much automated which would save alot of work.

hornedrhodent · Post by **hornedrhodent** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:12 pm

="rezaxis"
My PID controller has a high temp alarm with relay output that I can use to shut things down or whatever. But I've gotten conflicting opinions on here about vapor temp as a control variable. I haven't distilled anything before so at this point I can't argue with anybody.

Just to confuse your thinking furthur - why not use the cooling water temp to control the heat input.

masonjar · Post by **masonjar** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:20 pm

But I've gotten conflicting opinions on here about vapor temp as a control variable.

I read some of those conflicting opinions too. I think a lot of them result from people being used to operating different types of stills. With a pot still, the temperature is a function of the wash content only. There is no way to control the vapor temperature on a pot still. With reflux stills, you can control the temperature by adjusting the reflux ratio. This can be done by adjusting the power input to the still or by adjusting the amount of distillate returning back to the column (the latter being more effective.)

As for regulating the head temperature to the boiling point of ethanol, yes, that would make the foreshots blast out - unless you tuned your PID with a *LOT* of dampening - which might slow the system down to the point where you would lose tracking at the end of the run and let tails into your hooch. You'd probably want to start the controller after you extracted your heads to avoid this (or you could account for the heads with software on a computer controller). At the end of the run, the controller should start automatically closing the reflux valve down and turning the heat down more and more, and eventually you would just want to stop it, otherwise it would go on too long in a wasteful manner. It would make more sense to have a separate temperature probe in the pot and when that gets up to 205F or so, have the operation shut itself down.

Home Distiller

If you could add anything you wanted to your boiler.....

If you could add anything you wanted to your boiler.....

hmm