Still overhaul

[Grayson_Stewart]

Brought over from old forum:

Knuklehead
(enthusiast)
09/04/04 10:10 PM
Still overhaul



Made some changes on my setup to save time by adding a second element for heat up, new valves since my needle valves leaked, added 12" to the column for higher purity, changed copper jacket around column to stainless steel which is easier to keep clean.
http://www.mts.net/~ronk/Broken%20Down.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.mts.net/~ronk/Column%20Union.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.mts.net/~ronk/Column.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.mts.net/~ronk/Full%20Frontal.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.mts.net/~ronk/Inside%20Boiler.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.mts.net/~ronk/Valves.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I am Canadian

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rebel
(newbie)
09/05/04 04:31 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



Nice workmanship! looks fantastic


make beer not war

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MyDBear
(journeyman)
09/05/04 05:54 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



Looking good knuck mine is just about done there is a few things I have to make and when it's finished i'll put some pics of it on here

I like those valves better than those other valves.
are they still needle valves?

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kahluaman
(newbie)
09/05/04 07:53 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



Looks like a very nice set-up. It looks like you have a short column. How long is it and what % product do you get with it. I really like the compactness a the ability to take it down. My still is over 8ft. tall when set up and on the burner, it can be a bit overwhelming at times.

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AkCoyote
(member)
09/05/04 09:07 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



Nice job KH! Let us know how she works!

AkCoyote

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson

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grayson_stewart
(member)
09/05/04 09:45 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: AkCoyote]



knuklehead,
Are those 3/8" valves? They look exactly like the ones I use.

Good things may come to those who wait. But only the things left by those who hustle.

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Knuklehead
(enthusiast)
09/05/04 11:31 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: grayson_stewart]



Thanks for the complements guys. Grayson, yes the are 3/8" valves and they have reducers on them to take them down to 1/4". my biggest problem with the needle valves I used before (same ones the site suggests) is that the valves where soldered directly to the collection cap. With these valves I soldered on a short nipple and connected the valves with a compression fitting so they can be removed, cleaned or replaced without having to unsolder and re-solder anything. Another thing Grayson is that these valves are much easier on the fingers, which if you ever had the other kind you can understand. With the expansion and contraction of the still heating and cooling the valves can require a I bit of torque to open and close so the round knob is easier on the fingers then the pin in the other ones I had.

I am Canadian

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Knuklehead
(enthusiast)
09/05/04 11:37 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: MyDBear]



MyDBear, They are the same idea of the needle valve but they have a much better seat in them for sealing. The needle valves have basically a cone on the needle and a cone for the seat with needs to jam together to seal it. Problem with that is when the two cones are not 100% true to each other then you will get leaking which was the case with mine. These new valves have an actual flat surface for a seat. The are designed for use with gas (natural, propane) so they have to seal 100% all the time. The other valves I used where designed to tap into a water line for a humidifier so I tiny leak once in a while would be no big deal in that application. Looking forward to seeing your pics.

I am Canadian

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Knuklehead
(enthusiast)
09/05/04 11:46 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: kahluaman]



Kahluaman, the column is 2" round by 43" tall wrapped with 1/2" pipe insulation and a stainless steel jacket wrapped around the insulation. The column is packed for 36" up to the reflux line. The whole unit stands at 68" and I get around just under 95% purity out of it now where as before I could only get just under 93%.

You said your still stands over 8' tall? Wow, how tall is your column and to what hieght is it packed? What purity do you get out of it?

I am Canadian

Edited by Knuklehead (09/05/04 02:31 PM)

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Knuklehead
(enthusiast)
09/05/04 11:55 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: AkCoyote]



The column and the new valves I have already used and I am very please with how it all works. The column is broken in two which makes it super easy to take the packing out and the valves operate very smoothly unlike my last ones. The only thing I haven't used yet it the second element as I just installed it yesterday. My heat up time is always 1 hour -1 1/4 hour depending on the wash size so I am hoping to cut that time down.

I am Canadian

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grayson_stewart
(member)
09/05/04 01:17 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



I've never used the other valves with the pin handles. I selected these type valves because of the knurled dial thinking that it would be easier to "micro adjust" to get just the right amount of drips per minute. Also, I thought I would be able to place a mark on the dial as a guide to re-establish a certain amount of output in drips per minute. I've found the adjustment between completely on or completely off to be so small that there isn't enough room to place more than one mark.

When I open the valve, it seems I have to back off the valve beyond the point of distillate takeoff I want in order to break the surface tension in the valve, then slowly decrease the flow till I'm back at the point I want. I will agree that when you turn the valve off, it definately is off.

Let me know if this describes how your valves react so I'll know if mine are defective or not.

Good things may come to those who wait. But only the things left by those who hustle.

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Knuklehead
(enthusiast)
09/05/04 01:47 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: grayson_stewart]



Man Grayson, it's like you took the words right out of my mouth. When I open my collection valve to start collection the foreshots, one drip per second, I twist a little, nothing, twist a little more, wait a minute for it to run down the collection tube, nothing, twist a little more then then "bam" it comes pouring out like a fricken river, lol. Then I slowly back it off just like you said to get the right number of drips. Funny, I guess we just have to except that fact because the valves are vary nice.

I am Canadian

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MyDBear
(journeyman)
09/05/04 01:49 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



The valves that I used are for the use of gas also, their called a gas cock here. I too soldered nipples to the cap and their flush inside so no pool of distillet will build up. then their screwed on the nipples and flare fittings go to the reflux & product lines .....Very easy to take apart to clean or replace.
Another thing I did was to put a union between the column and the condencer to seperate them for cleaning and the double heilex coil is conected by flare fittings to the can so they can be unbolted and taken out every thing can come apart for storage,cleaning or replacement.

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Knuklehead
(enthusiast)
09/05/04 02:03 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: MyDBear]



How do you find the gas cock valves. That is what we call them here to and it is a ball valve right? When I first built this thing I thought about using a ball valve type like you have but I wondered how well it would work. Like you said, the ball valves are used in gas situations and I noticed on some of the valves I looked at that the "ball" in the valve had grease on it. I was thinking that if you use it for gas the grease would stay in tact but if you run alcohol through it then the grease would dissolve leaving the ball dry. I wondered how that would effect the valve operation and the sealing of the valve. How do your valves operate as for precisely adjust the outtake? I would love to know for future reference.

I am Canadian

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MyDBear
(journeyman)
09/06/04 04:03 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



I found theese at a hardware store over the mountain. Their used for the gas lines in campers. Its a type of ball valve not realy a ball like the normal ball valves but works the same. And yes there was grease in it (a sticky grease like cosmaline) I took a Q-tip and removed it and run hot water through it. And as far as your other questions I havent made any runs yet I'm still building but when I do I will let you know. I will give in detail from start to finish of my first run.

"How do your valves operate as for precisely adjust the outtake?"
Well I did run hot water through them and they are touchy it dont take much of a turn on the handle for them to be off or on.

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Enob_T
(Unregistered)
10/02/04 07:57 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



I have to admit this is one of the best I have seen. Would you consider letting me see more photos of this design. I am considering building a new still using a 58-litre SS keg. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks


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Knuklehead
(addict)
10/02/04 09:53 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Enob_T]



Thanks for the complement. I would be glad to show you more, what do you want to see?

I am Canadian

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josesillo
(newbie)
10/03/04 11:04 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



nice set up, it looks like its made for industrial work, KH what kind of boileris that,where did you get it


- - - - - - -

--I only drink to make other people seem more interesting.!!!--

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Knuklehead
(addict)
10/03/04 02:07 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: josesillo]



I made the boiler myself. It is made form flat sheet 304 .051" thick stainless steel. It is two layers, the inside vessel with 1" of insulation then another layer to cover the insulation. It is all tig welded together. The boiler lid also has two layers with insulation between them and cork gasket for a seal with 4 stainless steel over center latches to hold it down.

I am Canadian

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pothead
(addict)
10/04/04 04:16 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



I wish I could build a boiler like that (but a bit bigger). But if I tried, it would probably look like a wrinkled up ball of tin foil.

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PRNDL
(stranger)
10/04/04 06:35 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



Awesome still Knucklehead!!

I'm interested to know what you used to control the heating elements.
It looks like a commercial controler ... if so, what's the make/model?

Thanks


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Knuklehead
(addict)
10/04/04 06:43 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: PRNDL]



Your right is it a commercial fan speed control/ heat lamp control. It is used in barns the control exhaust fans or the control intensity of heat lamps for new born livestock. I picked it up at a farming supply store. It is a "Phason" control and the model number is MSC-4.

I am Canadian

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Fish
(stranger)
10/05/04 05:43 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



I stumbled across the same controler not so long ago. I like the way it is set up so that the limits can be set internally so as not to over do it. How do you have yours run 120 or 240?
I have a heating element with two 750 watt elements I think I'm gonna run 120 and use the controller on both. I thought about useing it on only one and leave the other just for heating up but the extra control may prove useful when if ever I get my still complete!

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Knuklehead
(addict)
10/05/04 10:44 AM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Fish]



I have one 120V/1500W element that is controled by the this control. The other element I have is a 240V/3000W but it does not run through the control. I only use it for heat up and I only run it on 120v for the time being. You could probably get away without any control if you wanted. If you are using 750W elements plug them both in and unplug one of them after you are up to temperature. But on the other hand the control is really nice to have.

I am Canadian

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BigA
(stranger)
10/07/04 04:36 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



Knukle,
Could you describe how you placed the nipple in the bottom of the collection cup?

Thanks,
BigA

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Knuklehead
(addict)
10/07/04 10:41 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: BigA]



The nipples in the collection cap are very simple to install. All you have to do is drill a hole same size as the output tubing and slide it into the hole. Then solder it in place. The reflux tube comes out the back of the collection cap only because I replaced my original valves with some better quality ones. The new valves where longer so I had to make the curve in order to gain some length. Hope that helps.

I am Canadian

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BigA
(stranger)
10/12/04 08:51 PM
Re: Still overhaul [re: Knuklehead]



Thanks,
I wasn't sure if you used some type of fitting or not. BTW, that's a great still!!! If mine looks half as nice I'll be happy.

Regards,
BigA