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I am getting things lined up for my nixon head reflux. Column is done, I am working on the head. I also have made my condensor. The condensor will fit in a 2 inch tube (my column is 1.5 inch). The coil is about 15 feet coil of 3/8 ID (ID I think) tubing. This will all sit on top of my 15.5 keg, so the height at the top of the condensor will be about 7.8 feet. The condensor coil starts out at 7.8 feet, then drops to 6.5 feet, and then coils upwards with about a quart volume (approx volume of the coil), until it is 7.8 feet again, to then drop back to the tub. Also, the discharge will probably be "open-air", thus if there will be no gain from the weight of the discharge water column (not sure if that matters).

My question is:

"For this situation, when you acutal height of the lift, woud the height actually be 7.8 feer, or would it be 7.8 + 1.3 feet, or would it be 7.8 + 1.3 + X feet, where X is some coefficent to the length/diameter of the tubing?"

I would love to get by with a pump I can pick up for 30-35 over ebay. There are several in the 800 GPH range, with a max height of 11.5 feet. If the height computation is 7.8+1.3 feet of lift, then I would think this pump is adequate, and should give me 50 gal / hour or more (which should be enough, I hope). However, I doubt that I could (should) go any smaller in pump size than this.

I can always move the pump a little higher up. The tub will be 2 feet tall (and deep), and I can always put a stand in the tub to put the pump at the top of the water (instead of the bottom), giving a couple of feet. Also, I plan on only using 40 gallons or so of water, so at that weight, I can probably get the tub off the ground. I do plan on using a towel and a fan on the discharge stream of water, to cool it off, so I can run the same water without having to add

H.

Well, NOt sure i totaly understand your question but
My condenser has a 30 dollar pond pump going through 1/8 ID Copper (1/4 od) pipe about 15 feet worth, i use a 30 gallons garbagecan of water and i never have to change it out or Anything and I barely push the water. aPS: im also pushing it with my pump up 5.8 feet in the air.

Enlikil
Well, NOt sure i totaly understand your question but
My condenser has a 30 dollar pond pump going through 1/8 ID Copper (1/4 od) pipe about 15 feet worth, i use a 30 gallons garbagecan of water and i never have to change it out or Anything and I barely push the water. aPS: im also pushing it with my pump up 5.8 feet in the air.

My point is, that a pump can only push so high. But since we do not simply push to a height, and dump the water out, but push the water up, then down, then up in a winding coil, then dump the water out, I was wondering how this would impact the "apparent" height you are pushing the water.

The actual height (top of the coil), may be at 8 feet. However, due to the water being pushed up and down within the coil, I was not sure if this 8 feet was the "apparent" height I would need to use.

I guess I can get one of these pumps, and if it has problems, I can simply continue to move the pump higher and higher until it pushes water through.

Also, with the larger inside diameter of my tubing, I am pretty sure I can get away with more.

H.

The height above the pump gives you the head or static pressure the pump has to overcome. In addition to the static head the pump will have to overcome the friction in the pipe when the fluid is flowing. The friction increases dramatically with the speed of the fluid through the pipe (possibly the cube of the speed). There are formulae or tables to calculate this but are usually for straight pipes. I think bends increase the friction.

hornedrhodent
The height above the pump gives you the head or static pressure the pump has to overcome. In addition to the static head the pump will have to overcome the friction in the pipe when the fluid is flowing. The friction increases dramatically with the speed of the fluid through the pipe (possibly the cube of the speed). There are formulae or tables to calculate this but are usually for straight pipes. I think bends increase the friction.

Does anyone have any experience in this (such as buying a pump that ended up being too small??

H.

I've had pumps burning out on me. Those weren't meant for continous use, apparantly..

But having read the above posts, i think i might add some thoughts:

1. After the cooling water has been pumped up to the condenser the siphoning action of the water returning to the barrel will help 'pulling' the water up. The pumps i used before couldn't get the water up all by themselves, but after i helped by sucking on the other end the pump kept the flow going after the water was over the top dead point.

2. Raising the level of the cooling reservoir will help. At its best at the same level as the condenser. In that case the pumps only has to pump the water around, and not up.

KJH

LeftLaneCruiser
I've had pumps burning out on me. Those weren't meant for continous use, apparantly..

But having read the above posts, i think i might add some thoughts:

1. After the cooling water has been pumped up to the condenser the siphoning action of the water returning to the barrel will help 'pulling' the water up. The pumps i used before couldn't get the water up all by themselves, but after i helped by sucking on the other end the pump kept the flow going after the water was over the top dead point.

2. Raising the level of the cooling reservoir will help. At its best at the same level as the condenser. In that case the pumps only has to pump the water around, and not up.

KJH

Re: 1 I had thought of this also, however, I planned on having the return line pour the water over a bath towl, and having a fan blowing on that towel, to evap a little water, to cool it, then the (hopefully) cooler water would fall off the bottom of the towel back into the tub, to be later picked up, and pumped up to the condensor.

So, I would get a little of this siphon help, but not a "full" drop.

I am also looking at a 20 gallon per minute sump pump (1.1 amp) on ebay for $10-15 (with $15 shipping). I think these are more made for full time running. They have a 18 foot lift, so should be MORE than adequate. They are threaded for 1.5 inch iron piping, so I would have to rig something up to reduce them down to my 3/8" condensor piping.

H.

Husker :- Does anyone have any experience in this (such as buying a pump that ended up being too small?? H.

Husker,
I had that problem - have a look at this thread and it will explain all
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2998

I couldn't get the pump to push the water thru the coil so ended up using a household pressure pump I had here and it works a treat - recirculate thru a 200 litre plastic drum so have plenty of water and gets plenty of cooling.

I just bought a submersible sump pump (similar to this one), for 9.99 ($15 shipping). This thing should be MORE than adaquate. Now I just have to figure out how to neck this down from 1.5" to 3/8"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

H.

Husker :- Now I just have to figure out how to neck this down from 1.5" to 3/8"

By the looks of it the outlet is threaded so you should be able to get a reducer fitting to suit - might need a couple to get down to the size ya want.

Done well - hope it works for ya.

="Husker"
just bought a submersible sump pump (similar to this one), for 9.99 ($15 shipping). This thing should be MORE than adaquate. Now I just have to figure out how to neck this down from 1.5" to 3/8"

You might need to set up a pipe and tap to allow the bulk of the water to bypass your coil. Unless it's a very large coil I doubt you'd get anywhere near 20 gal/min through it. Running the pump at a very restricted flow rate may cause it problems.

hornedrhodent

="Husker"
just bought a submersible sump pump (similar to this one), for 9.99 ($15 shipping). This thing should be MORE than adaquate. Now I just have to figure out how to neck this down from 1.5" to 3/8"

You might need to set up a pipe and tap to allow the bulk of the water to bypass your coil. Unless it's a very large coil I doubt you'd get anywhere near 20 gal/min through it. Running the pump at a very restricted flow rate may cause it problems.

Thank you for the advise and warning. I will do that.

So I would put a line up, T off of that, run one of the T legs (with a valve) to the input of the condensor, and run the other leg of the T (with a valve) back into the tub?

H.

="Husker"
So I would put a line up, T off of that, run one of the T legs (with a valve) to the input of the condensor, and run the other leg of the T (with a valve) back into the tub?

H.

If you make the pipe from the pump to the tub big enough to take the full output of the pump , you could probably skip the valve to the condenser - just use the valve to the tub. Start with it fully open and close it until the flow rate through the condense is what you want.

="hornedrhodent"

="Husker"
So I would put a line up, T off of that, run one of the T legs (with a valve) to the input of the condensor, and run the other leg of the T (with a valve) back into the tub?

H.

If you make the pipe from the pump to the tub big enough to take the full output of the pump , you could probably skip the valve to the condenser - just use the valve to the tub. Start with it fully open and close it until the flow rate through the condense is what you want.

Thanks, sounds easier, H.

There is always the option of pumping up to a small header tank, then let gravity feed the water through the condensor back to the bottom tank.

How did the pump go...have you had a chance to run it yet?

CoopsOz
How did the pump go...have you had a chance to run it yet?

It shipped out yesterday, and should arrive on Wednesday. I will let everyone know.

I figure it will work great, as this is not some weany little pump, but a sump pump made for long term usage.

H.