Highest ABV to distill

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infinibev8
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Highest ABV to distill

Post by infinibev8 »

So, I haven't been able to find a definite answer from any very reliable sources so far...from what I've had time to research that is, but I'm wondering what the highest proof anyone has successfully ran their still. I've found people stating it should be below 40%, below 50%, and a even a few stating higher too. I've successfully ran vodka runs through my reflux still with a wash up to 49.5% without any issues. Obviously it'd be much more efficient if I could toss it in at higher purity (since I could fit more wash in the boiler) and run to 190proof....which is why I'm asking for input! Thanks.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Bushman »

This is a safety issue, 40% is the max this site recommends personally I wouldn't go above 30%.

I think you might be also a bit confused on this issue as most the time this is referring to an all feints run or through a pot still on a second run after stripping. With a reflux still you can achieve 190 proof with a 10-14% wash.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Prairiepiss »

It's a safety thing more then anything. 40% ABV is flammable. So when you run still as soon as it boils the boiler charge is no longer flammable. If you go higher it would take time for it to become nonflamable.

If you run it 40% or below. If something was to happen and the boiler was to spill. You would just have a big mess to mop up.

If you run something higher like 50%. If something was to happen and the boiler change spills. Now you have flammable liquid all over the place.

Basically you don't want to cook gasoline on your stove do you?

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rubber duck
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by rubber duck »

Here's the deal, you could technically load your boiler with 90% and run it. You could also load your boiler with gasoline and run it but you would never think of loading up a pot full of gas and putting on your stove right? Well when you go past the 40% mark that's basically what your doing.

There is no or very little oxygen in the boiler and you still need an ignition source, but what if something happens? I've had a still fire and it's not funny, I sure am glad I had a low abv charge because it could have been a real mess.
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infinibev8
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by infinibev8 »

Thanks for all the info guys. Appreciate it. Just looking for the most efficient way to run my reflux still--obviously saves some time if I can begin with a higher proof.

Thanks again.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Samohon »

In conclusion:

To be totally safe, charge your boiler with LW @ < 40%.
It will also bring the charge up-to distilling temps a lot faster...
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by nb0s »

The following is from Harry's Tastylime site. The full extract can be found here

http://distillers.tastylime.net/library ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

In the interest of safety I hope he won't mind my reproducing some of it here.

Many reflux stills have an internal wash heating system, in the form of electrical elements. It should be obvious to all that if there is any chance that an internal electrical heating element is exposed, then it will glow red-hot in that mixture of ethanol vapours and air found before purging the still, thus providing the ignition source. An immediate over-pressure situation (explosion) will develop, spreading burning ethanol and possibly bits of metal shrapnel everywhere, quite likely removing the stillman from humanity�s gene pool.

Death is a real possibility for those who fail to follow the rules. Take care.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by rubber duck »

Well Harry's a pretty smart guy in theory.

Stills do not explode as long as there open to the atmosphere. Propane will explode and alcohol will burn.

If anyone can find me one legitimate example of an element induced explosion I'll eat my hat.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by myles »

If we had been talking about pot stills I would have said to charge at 30% and also mentioned hydro-separation.

However as it is reflux I would still charge at 30%. With the current developments I would also fit a thumper or bubble plate between the boiler and the reflux column. Increasing the vapour ABV at the base of the column that way, is far safer than using a higher ABV charge in the boiler.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by nb0s »

rubber duck wrote:Well Harry's a pretty smart guy in theory.

Stills do not explode as long as there open to the atmosphere. Propane will explode and alcohol will burn.

If anyone can find me one legitimate example of an element induced explosion I'll eat my hat.
As you are an old hand here and regarded as something of a "guru" I know as a "novice" to distilling I should not reply but as it is safety at stake your post needs, in fact, demands a response.

Contrary to your assertion that propane explodes, this is not a fact. Propane burns, it is the rapid creation of gases resulting from uncontrolled combustion which, if confined create an explosion. People all around the world use propane daily to cook on and heat their homes -propane burns. Similarly alcohol burns but again IF there exists a confinement an explosion is possible. Note that the same could be said of gasoline. Many stills have sufficient containment for an explosion to occur IF the alcohol/air mix is ignited.

If you read Harry's dissertation you will note that what is in fact said is

"An immediate over-pressure situation (explosion) will develop"

The fact that it might not be possible to point to a particular example does not mean that the possibility of an "over-pressure situation" commonly referred to as an explosion does not exist.

You quite correctly state that "Stills do not explode as long as there open to the atmosphere." BUT I know of no still open to the atmosphere, sufficiently so, that the resultant gases from combustion will not be confined and possibly confined to the extent that an over-pressure situation might occur.

I can envisage many situations where this possible over-pressure situation might possibly occur, a still charged with a high concentration ABV mash is toppled, a still charged with high ABV mash inadvertently has the drain cock opened, etc. etc. etc.. Note the common occurrence of a high ABV mash. Should the recommendation of this site be observed no-one would ever charge a still with a wash greater than 40% ABV, but people do not always follow recommendations.

IMO it not advisable for anyone to state that stills do not explode. It is possible AND users should be aware of the possibility. If this post stops one idiot deciding to redistill his 85% ABV to rectify his poor cuts then job well done. He might get away with it 20, 30, 40 times then again he might not.

Might I conclude that were it not for your well deserved "guru" status upon this site I would not take this matter up. It is just that I feel that where safety is concerned everyone should be aware of all possible risks.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by rubber duck »

Somebody please show me an example of a still exploding without the help of dynamite. Not the heat source going up, not a vapor concentration in an enclosed room, and not a blockage in the condenser. Just show me one example of the alcohol in a still causing the still to explode.

I've heard theories about going blind from drinking moonshine, theories about needing 13 plates to hit 95%, and theories about stills exploding. Meanwhile I've had fire shooting out the end of my condenser and it didn't explode.
Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen. John Steinbeck
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by rubber duck »

Her e is an example of why you don't want to work with a high abv boiler charge.

http://www.independentmail.com/news/201 ... -business/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen. John Steinbeck
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by nb0s »

rubber duck wrote:Somebody please show me an example of a still exploding without the help of dynamite. Not the heat source going up, not a vapor concentration in an enclosed room, and not a blockage in the condenser. Just show me one example of the alcohol in a still causing the still to explode.

I've heard theories about going blind from drinking moonshine, theories about needing 13 plates to hit 95%, and theories about stills exploding. Meanwhile I've had fire shooting out the end of my condenser and it didn't explode.
I bow to your infinite knowledge oh super one. After all you are the "guru".
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by rubber duck »

nb0s wrote:
rubber duck wrote:Somebody please show me an example of a still exploding without the help of dynamite. Not the heat source going up, not a vapor concentration in an enclosed room, and not a blockage in the condenser. Just show me one example of the alcohol in a still causing the still to explode.

I've heard theories about going blind from drinking moonshine, theories about needing 13 plates to hit 95%, and theories about stills exploding. Meanwhile I've had fire shooting out the end of my condenser and it didn't explode.
I bow to your infinite knowledge oh super one. After all you are the "guru".
Go fuck yourself.
Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen. John Steinbeck
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Dnderhead »

"Here is an example of why you don't want to work with a high abv boiler charge."

the only thing i'm going to say "it dont take no high proof to do that"
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Durace11 »

rubber duck wrote:Here is an example of why you don't want to work with a high abv boiler charge.
http://www.independentmail.com/news/201 ... -business/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Maybe those guys need to pop on here and read a little in the New Distillers reading lounge...the top popped off and the 105 proof wash spilled out into the street?!? Keep it safe fellas!
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by rad14701 »

The possibility that the high proof vapor in the boiler head space and still head is entirely possible under exacting conditions... My great grandparents home that is still standing is not the original because the original was lost due to a still explosion in the basement... The original house was four times larger and more ornate than the tar paper covered bathroomless two room that stands there now because that was all they could afford after the fire...
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by King Of Hearts »

There is no good reason to go above 40% in my book. Do you want to make gasohol? A commercial still blew up a few months back after 9 years of running making high proof for the medical industry, are you trying to compete with them? We're making drink here not rocket fuel.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by blind drunk »

Plus, you get better likker if you charge your boiler with a lower abv, especially for the spirit run.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by King Of Hearts »

blind drunk wrote:Plus, you get better likker if you charge your boiler with a lower abv, especially for the spirit run.
And I think it's easier to make cut's, isn't that what a lot of people have trouble with?
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by blind drunk »

King Of Hearts wrote:
blind drunk wrote:Plus, you get better likker if you charge your boiler with a lower abv, especially for the spirit run.
And I think it's easier to make cut's, isn't that what a lot of people have trouble with?
That's what I was trying to say.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Max_Vino »

rubber duck wrote:Somebody please show me an example of a still exploding without the help of dynamite. Not the heat source going up, not a vapor concentration in an enclosed room, and not a blockage in the condenser. Just show me one example of the alcohol in a still causing the still to explode.
I have three points to make.

1) I was operating a still during a cleaning run of acetone. The still had a 100 liter boiler. The still had been running safely for years but for whatever reason it took the count of five...that is 5 seconds for a ball of fire to rise and completely cover the ceiling...another 15 minutes to burn the plant to the ground .

2) Ethanol is a fuel, it will run your car. This means it runs by controlled detonation. Something to think about.

3) "It's always what you don't expect that bites you in the butt." For this and the above reasons distillation of flammable materials is usually done outside or in a fire suppression enclosure.

Cheers,
Max
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Pop Skull »

Max_Vino wrote:
rubber duck wrote:Somebody please show me an example of a still exploding without the help of dynamite. Not the heat source going up, not a vapor concentration in an enclosed room, and not a blockage in the condenser. Just show me one example of the alcohol in a still causing the still to explode.
I have three points to make.

1) I was operating a still during a cleaning run of acetone. The still had a 100 liter boiler. The still had been running safely for years but for whatever reason it took the count of five...that is 5 seconds for a ball of fire to rise and completely cover the ceiling...another 15 minutes to burn the plant to the ground .

2) Ethanol is a fuel, it will run your car. This means it runs by controlled detonation. Something to think about.

3) "It's always what you don't expect that bites you in the butt." For this and the above reasons distillation of flammable materials is usually done outside or in a fire suppression enclosure.

Cheers,
Max
Just wanted to clarify - did you type acetone when you meant acetic acid? Because if you were using acetone an explosion and fireball isn't that surprising an end result.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by King Of Hearts »

Why would you do that? Isnt vinegar & water good enough?
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Max_Vino »

Max_Vino wrote:Just wanted to clarify - did you type acetone when you meant acetic acid? Because if you were using acetone an explosion and fireball isn't that surprising an end result.
Ethanol (@96%) has a lower auto ignition point than acetone and has a higher btu rating…thus more dangerous to work with.
King Of Hearts wrote:Why would you do that? Isnt vinegar & water good enough?
We were distilling Methyl methacrylate. which builds up in the still needing a acetone bath from time to time.

Max
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by the fojizzle »

So I'm a newbie an I just did my water run, my water vinegar run, yesterday i did my sacrificial run, and tomorrow I am about to do my first real run. It's gonna be a "gerber" wash I'm running the hydrometer shows it at 10% abv right now ( not sure if that's good or bad yet). It's been fermenting for about 5 days and I've had it sitting for a total of 10 days. My question is, I'm gonna do a stripping run and I was gonna do a spirit run after that. For the spirit run I was going to throw everything thru again with the exception of the foreshots. Are you guys saying I should dilute that first run to below 40 before I even run it a second time? And do I need to take out the foreshots from the second run as well? Thanks in advance guys for all th help! This forum is great!!
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Dnderhead »

yes dilute to 40% this is a safety factor.on the second run you need to make all the cuts,,fores,,heads,,harts,,tales.
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by the fojizzle »

Awesome! Thanks. Cool thing is by diluting I will end up with even more product!!!
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by myles »

If you are using a pot still dilute to below 30%. Many reasons. Google "diluting the still charge" or "hydro-separation"
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Re: Highest ABV to distill

Post by Purple_Flurp »

theoretically, you could distill to 99% alcohol, although i would guess it would take a lot of runs. each time you distill, a certain percentage of the alcohol is distilled (typically all of it) and a certain percent of the water is distilled (typically, not all of it). in other words, alcohol is more volatile (ethanol's boiling point is 78.4 C or 174 F) than water (100 C or 212 F), so the relative rate of evaporation for each part will differ. That's the key part. if you condensed part of a 50/50 solution of vaporized water and ethanol, you would get more water than ethanol, because the ethanol wants to be a gas. however, if you heated a 50/50 solution of liquid water and ethanol, you more ethanol vapor than water vapor would be produced, again because ethanol wants to be a gas more than water does.
What's the point of 99% ethanol? you can use it as a fuel in combustion engines. (you want very little water in it; water is horrible for Internal combustion engines or ICEs). ehow.com says you can get a filter which separates water from ethanol, which would make the multiple runs unnecessary, but i have yet to actually see one.
About combustion. obviously you don't want to burn your house down. always have a fire extinguisher handy, and try to use an electric coil if possible, and the best thing you can do is do this outside. autoignition, or the temperature where ethanol ignites (not to be confused with flash point). is 425 C or 797 F. i've seen my burner at home get to about 400 C on high, so don't expect electric to be 100% safe. also, i would expect autoignition to occur at a higher temperature when the ABV is lower, so you should be safe for most of your runs until the end with electric.
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