Home Distiller

About a month ago I purchased two 3 Liter barrels to try aging a bourbon and a rum (to make into a spiced rum) and though it's a project many of you may roll your eyes a bit at, it's opened up this whole world to me and I think has been a good way to begin.

I went into this not knowing anything about fermenting or distilling, so I filled the barrels with store-bought un-aged spirits to try my hand at aging them into something I'd actually like the drink. As with most hobbies, it's turned out to be a whole lot more expensive than I anticipated (Barrels=200, approx 100 to fill each barrel, 50.00 hydometer), but the amount of reading I've done (the internet's been great for this) on a pretty much daily basis has really caused me to learn quite a bit, so even if it turns out to be an expensive mishap, I've learned a ton, mainly from this site.

Here's what I've got:
Bourbon Barrel – 3 Liters
• 750 ml Trybox New Make Whiskey (51% corn, 49% rye/barley) – 125 proof
• 375 ml Buffalo Trace White Dog Mash (51% corn, 49% rye/barley) – 120 proof
• 1875 ml Wild Turkey Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey – 101 proof (ok, cheated a bit here, it's aged)
• Estimated Barrel Proof – 110 proof (55% abv)

Spiced Rum Barrel – 3 Liters
• 1500 ml Wray & Nephew Overproof White Rum – 125.6 proof
• 750 ml Bacardi 151 WhitePuerto Rican Rum – 151 proof
• 750 ml Bacardi Superior White Puerto Rican Rum – 80 proof
• Estimated Barrel Proof –120.6 proof (60.3% abv)

So I filled the barrels on Oct 2nd and my biggest problem has been just leaving the dammed things alone. The general concensess here seems to be that (particularly with a new, small barrel) aging one week per liter seems to be the way to go. There were so many warnings against over-oaking and I've read lots of stories of peoples' product being almost black after a month due to over-oaking. Well, it's been 18 days and mine is coming along nicely but still tastes nowhere near to done. The oak is still pretty light, to where I couldn't imagine watering down to 80 proof (I think it would lose almost all its flavor) though both are tasting pretty good. [I came up with my own way of estimating the barrel proof and am not sure if I've done it correctly. Would someone who knows more about that please check my numbers?]

The rum had me really worried because for some reason that Wray & Nefews has some really odd flavors that were dominating it. I really thought the use of it may have ruined the batch because (I don't know how many of you have tried it) it's got the strangest and strongest flavor of any white rum I've ever had. I can hardly describe it but I suppose I'd have to go with a heavy rotten bananna smell and flavor. Well, after three weeks I can thankfully say the flavor's diminished and it's really starting to taste good. I'm not sure why mine haven't oaked as quickly as other peoples' have, but I'm glad that over-oaking doesn't seem like it'll be a problem.

I'll post again when I take the next steps. I know I didn't distill my own, and I know some of you call these 3L barrels "toys" on here, but it really has been a good way to enter this whole world and I've learned a ton, again, primarily from this site. Oh, and in the last two weeks I've made a honey liqueur, a maple liqueur, and an espresso liqueur. Planning on buying a bunch of 375ml bottles and giving a lot of this away for Christmas. Thanks everyone.

This sounds like a interesting experment (yes, quite a bit overpriced).

Are you sure these are actually un-aged?? It does sound like the rum that had some off flavors might be. I have never gotten a good flavored rum right off the bat. It requires aging.

I seriously doubt (am almost 100% sure) the white is unaged. It is aged, and then filtered to remove the coloration.

Also, your bourbon is mostly aged (your 'cheat', lol).

It really sounds like you need to work at making your own base materials. Then you can make it good, and use a good known working recipe, and make PROPER cuts. The cuts will make things SOOOOO much better. Most commercial crap you get has little or NO cuts, so they age the heck out of it, to try to make it somewhat drinkable. But it will never makeup for deep proper cuts.

Keep people posted on the results of this experment, including aging, how/if you water down, etc. A lot may water down only a little, and bring it to proof strength (100 proof), instead of 80 proof. You are not a commercial player, so you get to do it the way YOU want to.

H.

Thanks. Eventually I do hope to learn how to ferment, build or purchase a distillation unit, and begin experimenting with cuts - but I've found that with any hobby, if you make it too complicated, you'll never get around to it - and for me, this feels like a good start. Besides, it'll give me something to compare it to when I make my own one day.

As far as the rum's concerned, yeah, it's aged in aluminum, but no, there's no barrel aging of the rums I chose.

Anyway, I'm acutely aware of how many of you guys would view my project - I've already gotten plenty of unfriendly feedback from purists who feel like I'm wasting my time/being a hack/etc. One person was absolutely insulted by the mere thought of it. I told him that people all across the country/world are buying these little barrels and trying their hands at aging, to which he replied "well I guess PT Barnum was right". That wasn't a super fun conversation and I hope I don't run into a lot of that just because I'm not distilling yet.

I know I'm not doing it the right way or the best way, but one day I will and for now I'm really enjoying myself.

The spirits you are talking about are flavored drinks. Making a simple pot still is a pretty doable project for anyone who has only 2 thumbs. Also, there are MANY recipes here on HD (check out the Tried and True section first) to get your feet wet, as you learn what works and what does not work in building ferments.

But you can do this at your own pace. If there are members giving you a hard time, because you are not doing like them, then ignore them. And TO site members acting this way to new ppl just getting their feet wet, Keep it CIVIL! Everyone starts in their own way. Yes, we certainly do give advice, but keep it civil.

Also, a note on end proof... High school algebra will help you here (damn shame the teacher never mentioned this, I'd have paid more attention! ).

End volume times total abv will always equal initial volumes times abv's. You only get out what you put in after all.

So in your bourbon barrel
3L(X%abv)=1.875L(.505)+.375L(.60)+.750L(.625)
becomes
3L(X%abv)=1.83
divide both sides by 3
X%abv=.61

61%abv or 122 proof

As it turns out this same equation will give you dilution volumes too. Just put your desired %abv into the left side and make your end volume unknown.

To dilute the barrel to 40%abv/80 proof,
xL(.40)=3L(.61)
xL(.40)=1.83
divide by .40 to find final volume.
x=4.575L

Lets just leave that there before I break out the Thermodynamics textbook and start trying to adjust vapor purity for vapor temperature and altitude above sea level. Stillers on mountain tops boil their wash at lower temps, so 99.15C boil doesn't mean 10%abv in the vapor at 3000 feet....

I'm gonna stop now.

Husker - Thanks. Yeah, the more I learn about this, the less satisfied I am with not learning to ferment and distill. It's all just a bit, intimidating I guess. Is it really true that commercial distillers don't make cuts? So good products like Maker's and Knob Creek can really be bested by home distilling and aging?
If so, that's pretty exciting.

Speaking of Maker's. I was smelling a bottle today and the level of vanilla flavor and aroma is so intense that I almost feel like Makers Mark is a 'vanilla flavored' bourbon. I know that's silly, but really, it's pretty intense. How do they get that without adding vanilla?
I know vanillin comes from oak but can you really get that much without adding extracts, etc?

What additives are legal for bourbon/whiskey?
For example, I know that with Tequila, there are four legal additives: Oak chips, Caramel Color, Sucrose, and Glycerine. Anything other than that and you can't call it 100% Agave Tequila.

Davidwatkins - Thanks for that algebra. You guys are such a wealth of knowledge. Really appreciated!

Davewatkins - I was going through the equations and I got stuck.

You wrote:

3L(X%abv)=1.875L(.505)+.375L(.60)+.750L(.625)

So I multiplied 1.875 x .505 and so on and got the following numbers:
.944, .225, .469
Which I added together, getting 1.64 where it appears you got 1.83
After dividing by three, my numbers are giving me 55% abv where you're getting 61% abv. Where was my error?

thanks again

I was using the calculator on my computer and used the memory function to store my running totals. Apparently there's something screwy going on because writing the numbers out by hand I agree with you, 1.64 liters of pure alcohol diluted to 3 liters yields 55% abv.

I gotta stop posting late at night apparently. This is twice in the last week I made simple obvious mistakes.

Speaking of Maker's. I was smelling a bottle today and the level of vanilla flavor and aroma is so intense that I almost feel like Makers Mark is a 'vanilla flavored' bourbon. I know that's silly, but really, it's pretty intense. How do they get that without adding vanilla? I know vanillin comes from oak but can you really get that much without adding extracts, etc?

I've been wondering this for a while. I've been able to get hints of vanilla. But not a strong vanilla. And what got me really thinking about it. I tossed a vanilla bean in a gallon jug with some oak and white corn and wheat whiskey. And even though I put a vanilla bean in with it. I still didn't get nearly the vanilla flavoring or aroma. That I have noticed from some store bought stuff. To me it is almost like the store bought stuff is artificially flavored.

I played with some rum the other day. Going for a spiced rum. My wife likes Captain. And that stuff smells as much like vanilla as my homemade vanilla extract. Where I have 5 or 6 beans soaking in a pint of 40% ABV neutral. So how can they get that much vanilla in there?

And I will add. Your experiments would be a lot more interesting if you made your own base spirits. And as Husker said its not really that hard to get started.

But as an alternative. There are more and more distilleries selling ageing kits. That come with unaged whitedog. And there are more and more whitedogs hitting the likker store shelves. And using a whitedog would give you a better picture of what the barrel you have is contributing to the end product.

But carry on as you see fit. It's your hobby. Do as you please. Some of us just like giving suggestions.

srbutler75 wrote:Husker - Thanks. Yeah, the more I learn about this, the less satisfied I am with not learning to ferment and distill. It's all just a bit, intimidating I guess. Is it really true that commercial distillers don't make cuts? So good products like Maker's and Knob Creek can really be bested by home distilling and aging?
If so, that's pretty exciting.

I was very surprised with this early on, but it is VERY true. It is not hard at all to get a MUCH better quality, and then you will really change your view of "good products like ....." and start viewing them as "Better quality swill like ..." This hobby really CAN be a problem. Once you really start making your own, where there is NO heads and NO tails in it, just the GOOD stuff, and get used to that, you really can not go out to the bar any more. I find that I can hardly drink that crap any more. I actually get a headache when drinking it, even after just a couple drinks. Does not happen with mine, at all.

Now, there ARE a few really good commercial products out there. Makers aint one of them. Knob is a little better, but still pretty heady. I have found Four Roses small batch, to be a very good, however, it varies from bottle to bottle. Some are fabulous, almost to the quality of the best I can do. Others are good but pretty heady. That is the problem with a small batch, where it is only 2 or 3 grain bills. But once you get good at this, you will find that the 'big boys', (Beam, JD, makers, etc), are REALLY shitty stuff. They run a continuous type still, and end up pulling quite a bit of heads and some tails through, just due to the process. When you really start to know what it is SUPPOSED to taste like, you will really taste these terrible flavors. They age that crap a LONG time, trying to mask it, but you never can get rid of all of it.

Fermenting really is not all that hard. Read some recipes in the Tried and True recipe section. There are some that have 1000's of batches made by many many members. These recipes WORK, and are pretty simple.

H.

Alright, I think I'm pretty well-sold.

I don't feel comfortable at this point making my own distiller and am looking around at what's for sale on the internet. Going to go ahead and post a question about distillers in another part of the forum but if you have any advice on purchasing one it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Just make one! It's so easy even I did it!!! If you absolutely MUST buy one, I can suggest a few companies in a PM. I bought one first, then after the third time using it I wished I had saved my money and just made one.

You should make one, its super easy! The one I made, the second attempt that is, works great, and the reflux coldfinger allowed me to get 92 % vodka, which for the size and simplicity is pretty good! http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=28746 I've been making tons of rum, and vodka, and plan on doing a scotch type soon, and eventually will upgrade to a flute.

We all take different paths to get here. You are the first who I've heard got here through experiments with aging. I got here through drinking way too much overpriced scotch and brewing a metric flip ton of home brew. One visit to the St George Distillery! And I had to give it a try. Almost wish I could turn back, but I'm having way too much fun!

With regards to makers 46, I saw an episode on The Art Of The Drink podcast where they interviewed the current president of Makers. After 4 generations, he was hoping to go down in history as something better than the guy who didn't screw up a good thing. The 46 is because that was the 46th sample of toasting. They age makers with all the rest, and then 3 months with these slats in the keg.

I've been chasing that with toasted oak sticks for a while.. If you look at the oak flavoring chart, there is a range of toast, almond, and vanillins just waiting to be released


Never liked bourbons until I found this class with a heavy a vanilla component.

Me? Im just Plodding along trying to awake time for stilling... Hard to make time for a few runs with work, kids, etc going on all the time.. Winter might help

srbutler75 wrote:Alright, I think I'm pretty well-sold.

I don't feel comfortable at this point making my own distiller and am looking around at what's for sale on the internet. Going to go ahead and post a question about distillers in another part of the forum but if you have any advice on purchasing one it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I'm so glad I was raised in the country and taught to do things for myself rather than relying on others... I have a customer who calls me to ask how to spell words rather than using a dictionary or spell-check... I saw him standing alongside the country road next to his Jaguar one day, trying desperately and hopelessly to get cell signal, and he had the nerve to say I was out of my element... I was headed deeper into the wilderness to hike even deeper into the wilderness... Go figure...!!!

I don't follow. Are you criticizing me for not building my own?

Of course I could build my own. I've got pretty decent abilities in that area. But I want something small, compact, and sleek. I can build a still, but it will look like a goddam octopus and take up half the kitchen. I don't live in the country. I live in a small city apartment. Realities are a bit differnt out this way. It's gotta go from my tiny kitchen stovetop to my super crowded closet.

There are lots of things I'd build myself, this just aint one of them.

srbutler75 wrote:I don't follow. Are you criticizing me for not building my own?

Of course I could build my own. I've got pretty decent abilities in that area. But I want something small, compact, and sleek. I can build a still, but it will look like a goddam octopus and take up half the kitchen. I don't live in the country. I live in a small city apartment. Realities are a bit differnt out this way. It's gotta go from my tiny kitchen stovetop to my super crowded closet.

There are lots of things I'd build myself, this just aint one of them.

I also currently live in a small city apartment and I built the small scale still linked in my signature in this very apartment so I know it can be done... Just pointing out that buying isn't always the best solution even if it seems to be the quickest and easiest... I don't pay for anything I don't have to and have done all of my own household repairs my entire life... Never paid a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc... I pay for well drilling, septic, and some roofing and that's about it... And now that I don't have a garage I pay for some of my auto repairs even though I am capable of doing them myself... I can make more money per hour than the garage labor rate so it makes sense to pay a garage...

Do as you choose but there is an added level of satisfaction in building your own equipment... At least for me there is...

Its been a good while since i bought a bottle of makers, but damned if youre comments below dont make me wanna bust out my wallet to taste that vanilla. I love what medium toast white oak does to cider brandy, what comes out is nothing at all like what goes in the bottle! Vanilla, caramel, butterscotch, campfire. Tastes so damn good its dangerous.

Yo OC
Like everyone said its a pretty easy task to buid your own unit.save the 250 bucks and build your own.As far as the fermenting,if youy have any ?s pm me for i have done many many runs of rum sour mash,pretty much a little of everything.Id be glad to try to explain what you need.
It is easy and fun knowing the swill your drinking you made,and the equipment also
good luck

Husker wrote:Once you really start making your own, where there is NO heads and NO tails in it, just the GOOD stuff, and get used to that, you really can not go out to the bar any more. I find that I can hardly drink that crap any more. I actually get a headache when drinking it, even after just a couple drinks. Does not happen with mine, at all.

The same thing happens to me now. The other night I got a splitting headache after drinking one martini made with store bought gin, followed by a nasty hangover the next morning.

Drinking the same volume of my own would not have resulted in any discomfort whatsoever.


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