Need some help on the elements and controling them

[Grayson_Stewart]

Brought over from old forum:

bees
(stranger)
09/09/04 08:02 PM
Attachment
Need some help on the elements and controling them



Hi all,
So I've been slowley working on this still since march and scrapped some designs I was working on to go with the elip inline head. I've just recently shifted again in what I've descided to do for the boiler and want to go with internal heating elements instead of propane . I'm using a pdf as the main plans for this design and have a reflux tube that is 30" with another 15" or so above that for the condencer and the head. I need some help fighuring out what the elements need to be and whats the best way to control them. I've read in the compleat distiller that if done inproperly that the elemnts will set off funky frequency harmonics through the grid and that will draw attention to where i'm stilling and could damage the grid too. I want the simple and elegant way of doing this whether that is with two on off switches and two elements the second and smaller one the perfect wattage for my still(any one who knows please respond) after its gotten up to temp or with a variable controler. These things I just don't know to well and so I ask for you the forums help and wisdom. I have a friend that is an electrician who can help me if thats necesarry(so I won't fry myself), but if he isn't needed that would just speed things up.
About the STill
the boiler is a keg
I would like to run different volume batches that are different alco %
I would prefer it I didn't have to use more than one breaker for the whole setup elements and pump for condeser
I live in America and need the the whole system to run on 120v like my mig welder
Well thats what I can think of hope to hear some help back if I've left anything out or you have any questions gjust post them I'll be keeping an eye on this thread alot as I hope to have this fighured out before next week
thanks bees
ps attached are some pics of the still so far

Post Extras:

bees
(stranger)
09/09/04 08:08 PM
Attachment
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling [re: bees]



here is the still head

Post Extras:

Blanchy
(enthusiast)
09/09/04 08:18 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling them [re: bees]



Whoa Bees, if you want help controlling the elements, you might try one of the sorcery forums. This one is about distilling.

Chuck

Post Extras:

bees
(stranger)
09/09/04 08:32 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling [re: Blanchy]



harh har har

Post Extras:

grayson_stewart
(member)
09/09/04 08:35 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling them [re: Blanchy]



Bees, excellent job on the EL plate...I can't even see a solder joint. Did you cut the tube with a hacksaw and slip a plate in or solder it from the inside?

The interference comes from trying to control the element with a particular type of regulator....If you can understand the discussions on triac controllers, they will do fine. I think it was Knuklehead who uses a variable controller he got from a farm supply place.

That looks like a 2" diameter column. I use a 3800 w and 1800 W elements. But my column is a bit taller than yours. You may want a smaller element for the run...maybe 750W?

I doubt you will find two elements that can be run off the same circuit unless you have a 30 amp circuit...better check on that. Whatever elements you pick the wattage divided by the voltage will give you the amerage required. Add the two amperages together and make sure they don't over load your curcuit.

Blanchy...just how long have you been saving that one to have the chance to use it?

Good things may come to those who wait. But only the things left by those who hustle.

Post Extras:

Blanchy
(enthusiast)
09/09/04 08:39 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling them [re: grayson_stewart]



Grayson,

It was just the way the words went together when Bees wrote it that clicked. Since he didn't say it was a heating element (not that there was any doubt), and he used elements in the plural, my comment seemed necessary (to me at least).

Chuck

Post Extras:

bees
(stranger)
09/09/04 08:55 PM
Attachment
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling [re: grayson_stewart]



I sawzalled it and put the plates in from the outside.

Post Extras:

AkCoyote
(member)
09/09/04 09:56 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling [re: bees]



Very nice work bees!

AkCoyote

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson

Post Extras:

Fourway
(addict)
09/09/04 10:22 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling [re: bees]



That is some nice work. Low temp solder or brazing?

Gin was mother's milk to her. - George Bernard Shaw

Post Extras:

bees
(stranger)
09/09/04 11:19 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling [re: Fourway]



4way I didn't braze, I didn't see why I should bother when soldering works just as well and is sooo much easier.thank you thank you now that aside. The part I'm struggling with is the elcktroniks


Post Extras:

bees
(stranger)
09/09/04 11:23 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling [re: grayson_stewart]



ok grayson I understand what you said I think...I am running 2 inch pipe and Idon't have 30 amp fuses I want this still to be very versitile on where I can runn it just in case i want to move it to another house than mine and run it there.

Post Extras:

grayson_stewart
(member)
09/10/04 08:15 AM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling [re: bees]



Ok....2" column less than a meter tall, no 220 V available, no 30 amp breakers.

Using any 220 V elements would probably be a waste since you may rarely use this elsewhere. Should you move to a new permanent location, you can always swap out elements later for less than $8.

The largest 120 V element you may be able to find in a retail home improvement store is an 1800 W element. 1800 W divided by 120 V will draw 15 amps. You need to have some margin of safety so I would make sure this was run on a 20 amp circuit that has nothing else running like a dishwasher, microwave, etc. And make sure you use a heavy duty extension chord....most won't handle that kind of current draw.

Unless you have all the time in the world, you will want one large element like that to speed up the boil up times. For the main run you will get better performance using something smaller than 1000 W. I've got pics of dual elements in the Yahoo Distillers group under Grayson. Note: if you use two elements make sure you place them one above the other like in the pics. The larger element above the smaller element.

Using two elements, you will need to verify that they will draw current from different circuits. You can do this by plugging in appliances and flipping the breakers.

Simple and elegant would be a controller hooked to a single large 110V element. I'm not well versed in the use of these controllers and that would take longer to heat up when you are limited to one element.

Hope this helps.





Good things may come to those who wait. But only the things left by those who hustle.

Post Extras:

rebel
(newbie)
09/11/04 05:17 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling them [re: bees]



imdoing my first run right now on the ns reflux still i have 2 elements both 120volt 2000 and 1000 watt for start up i ran both took about 45 minutes to heat up then i pulled the cord on the 2000 and ran the 1000 ill let you know what happens but durring my test run with water only the temp stayed right at 175 with no controllers!

make beer not war

Post Extras:

rebel
(newbie)
09/11/04 07:30 PM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling them [re: rebel]



ok it seems with a 1000 watt 120volt element my temp stayes at 170 to 172 without any regulaters or any thing but your home depot variety replacement power cord rated at 15 amps

make beer not war

Post Extras:

theholymackerel
(addict)
09/12/04 01:20 AM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling them [re: rebel]



?




Post Extras:

rebel
(newbie)
09/12/04 05:09 AM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling them [re: theholymackerel]



in plain english, for a 15.5 gallon stainless steel boiler you don't need to control the heating elements.

make beer not war

Post Extras:

Blanchy
(enthusiast)
09/12/04 07:09 AM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling them [re: rebel]



The real key is the ratio of heat input to column crossection. The rate at which heat goes into the wash determines the rate at which it boils. It will always boil at the same temperature regardless of how much heat you add. The rate at which the wash boils determines a flowrate of vapor which divided by the crossectional area of the column defines a velocity. Higher velocities don't have as much time to come to equilibrium which results in poorer quality. This is why the industrial setup are probably a minimum of 18" D.

The boiler size is irrelevant except as far entraining liquid in the vapor goes.

Chuck

Post Extras:

rebel
(journeyman)
09/12/04 08:25 AM
Re: Need some help on the elements and controling them [re: rebel]



i was only speaking from what happened lastnight from my first run i dont know shit so listen to every body else

make beer not war