Oaking before or after diluting?

[Repeatpete]

Just finished my spirit run and have about a 100 onces of 64% abv spirit. The spirit is in jars. I went by the book call "how to make whiskey" by Bryan Davis. I made a cherry smoked single malt.

Question is this. I've seen this talked about both ways. Do we dilute to preferred proof before, or after oaking? I've been told after by several people where I live, but I've also read that it's best to do it before diluting.

What is the opinion of those who regularly make whiskey on this site?

If you don't mind, I'm really trying to master this craft, so if you would, tell me why, one way or another. I will not chastise anyone for their opinions. I really don appreciate all input.

[Odin]

First oak, then dilute. Oaking is normally done between 62.5% and 50%. Drinking is normally done between 50% and 40%. Oaking at higher abv brings over more tanins, oaking at slightly lower abv gives more vanilins.

Odin.

[Rivver]

Most common is to oak at a higher proof (between 60-65%) then proof down to finish after some time. I've oaked at 50% before with good results, but I try and keep all spirits close to 62% when oaking.

One thing I've noticed with some early run spirits, is the lower the proof, the more color and oak flavor gets imparted into the spirits, leading to over oaking. I've noticed this also with PP's Fire Piss. 40% Alc on cinnimon sticks really takes on a dark color and strong flavor compared to 80-90% alc with the same amount of time. It actually worked well with the Fire Piss, but the oaked spirits really tasted woody and never settled out over time.

[Odin]

Rivver, might that have to do with the lower dilution factor? If you dilute 60% aged on wood to 40%, you add like 50% of the original amount of water. If you oak at 50%, you only add half the water ...

Odin.

[Repeatpete]

Thanks guys for the reply, it makes a lot more sense when it's explained like you did. It sure looks delicious , even after a couple of hours it looks more like what I dreamed of!! Of course that fresh whiskey right of the still isn't always very good, it takes a lot of knowledge, patience and a little luck to come out with a gem. Guess I will find out before the year is out. Then I will repeat the process all over again if it works out!!

[Rivver]

Rivver, might that have to do with the lower dilution factor? If you dilute 60% aged on wood to 40%, you add like 50% of the original amount of water. If you oak at 50%, you only add half the water ...

Odin.

Could be Odin, that would make perfect sense with the oak, and having a lot of oak flavor. But with the Fire Piss, if you take 190 proof neutral like PP recommends and put it on 6 sticks of cinnamon, then take 80 proof in another jar on 6 sticks, the 80 proof will be much darker and have much more of a cinnamon bite to it compared to the 190 in the same amount of time.

I made two different batches just like I described above and my friends thought the 80 proof was stronger because it had a deeper color and stronger cinnamon bite to it. LOL

[Odin]

Would you consider the second batch, on lower abv alcohol better, Rivver?

That would be good, 'cause I was planning to do some at 60% abv.

Odin.

[Rivver]

I think it would be a matter of personal preference. The lower proof definitely has more cinnamon flavor to it IMO, and it tends to give off a nice dark red color. I actually used some 40% UJSSM because I didn't have any neutral at the time. A few weeks later I ran out a batch of neutral, and was caught off guard when I didn't see the color coming over like before.

With a drink like this, you might not necessarily be looking for high alc content, but more flavor with the sweetness of it and the warmth of the cinnamon, 60% would make a fine drink and it looks great in the bottle too.

Honestly, I would make up two batches and see which you like the best. Can't go wrong with either.

[Repeatpete]

I couldn't stand it anymore. I had to take a taste.'let me tell you guys,'even at 150 it is already smooth as a models butt. When people say the homemade stuff tastes better than store bought, I was a bit skeptical. Not anymore, this stuff is good!!!

I didn't think it could be done. I followed the recipe to a tee, Saught for and received good advice from this forum and it has all paid off in what will be about a half gallon of the best single malt I have ever tasted. I'm a little biased too, but no one else cares.

Thanks to all those who offered their advice. Now time to try another variation of it and move on!!

[BryanDavis]

Since it's my book you used for the recipe I thought I would weigh in on the conversation. Thanks for buying a copy AND talking about it in the forum! You made my day!

1) The alcohol must be above 50% going into the cask. If its less than 50% the esterfication process (AGING) is inhibited.

2) The process is affected considerably by solubility. Higher the alcohol percentages going into the wood will make the whiskey more Scotch like. Lower concentrations will make the spirit more American whiskey like.

55% ABV is the traditional American standard for what percentage to add the spirit to the cask. 62.5% is the traditional Scotch standard. They will give you totally different results. I recommend you try your recipe in each concentration and compare.

Cheers,
Bryan Davis

P.S. I am so happy to hear you got results you like!

[chamlin2]

Thank you so much!!! Bryan this answers alot of questions i had. great thread.

[Repeatpete]

Geeez....... Didn't think the Author of the book I mentioned would reply. I'm impressed. I put a review on amazon where I ordered it from, mentioned how the book was written in a way a novice would understand it, and at the same time, maybe even the very experienced would learn a thing or two.

It was a good quick read and I refer to it quite a bit. I tried to follow the recipe to a tee, and it definitely got me the results I expected and wanted. I just wish there was a way to "express age" as it sits inside my cabitnet just teasing me. I'm not a big drinker, but I do love homemade anything.

For those who don't know what book we are talking about, here is a link to the amazon page where it can be purchased.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/148017440 ... r1&pi=SL75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I'll take the above post as an autograph!!

[BryanDavis]

Hey Pete,

Thanks for the review on Amazon! You know, if your trying to get the whiskey to express age fast - the small 2 liter - 5 gallon casks they sell online will work very very fast. Just make sure the cask you buy is charred inside and maybe leave some sherry or bourbon in it (in a warm place) for a few months to season it. Dump it out and refill with your whiskey. In one year you will have a massive amount of activity.

By the way if you (or anyone else) have technical questions - I have a contact button on the books webpage herehttp://www.howtomakewhiskey.net. Feel free to reach out any time.

Cheers,
Bryan Davis