Home Distiller

First, thanks to all for this wonderful site!

I have started to make my still. It will be a VM system, the design came from page 20 of "Still Drawings.pdf". Thank you Hookline for making those drawings available! My original plan was for a Boka but after reading comparisons of LM & VM in operation I went in favor of the VM.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 60&t=26460

I have actually fabricated a needle valve for a Boka so I'll just make a LM/VM hybrid, basic idea for the needle valve was taken from this forum. Thank you folks!

A 3/4" SS valve costs about $35 here, but the copper threaded adapters are $50 a pair!!!! I can't find a solution yet so for the meantime I thought I'd make a valve out of a sleeve that slides up and down to cover/uncover the take off point, just like a piston port in a 2-stroke engine.

Attached drawing shows the sliding valve in the open & closed positions. The upper angled plate moves along with the sleeve and its placement seems to aid the vapors into the 3/4" take off point. If there's anything wrong with this plan of mine please do let me know. Can't find anything like this from searching this forum.

I will post some pics of my build soon.

I love any design that does away with expensive valves and connectors, your design looks as though it would work in LM VM modes.

Have a look at this one that made not a valve in sight and I guarantee that this one works a treat, for two reasons.
For more details click here http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 16&t=40063

Firstly it gives you the option of Zero reflux ie Pot Still Mode.

Secondly in VM mode it is a proportional splitter, ie when you open up the VM take off you close the reflux route giving you good control over the reflux ratio.

I can take off my heads in LM then change to VM for neutral washes or Pot still for flavoured washes.

Lester that is very similar to the design I am toying with. My plan to fabricate the VM is to use a section of 2” pipe that contains my condenser. This pipe will be just a touch longer than the condenser itself. I think of it like a short boka head containing only the condenser with no angle plates. I am going to connect that to a 2x2x1 copper tee that has a 2” slip coupling soldered to the top of the tee (make it longer for support the condenser head) . My plan is to remove the stop from the top of the tee so the pipe can slide through to the stop on the bottom of the tee effectively blocking the 1” outlet of the tee. Then raise the condenser head incrementally to allow vapor passage to the takeoff tube.

I like how you added the top angle plate for LM to the bottom of your moving condenser. Nice touch! I was thinking if I add LM to my build I would have the plates at the top of the 2” column. The only downside I can come up with for either design is top access to the column. That will interfere with cleaning or adjusting/adding packing. Still thinking through that issue, love to see what you come up for it.

It’s nice to see someone thinking along the same lines as I am.

YHB, that design really looks nice, I am going to study that one some more.

Valveless Condenser Controlled VM requires no additional parts and removes the need for any valve. works copper or stainless.
Link for Condenser Controlled VM or LM http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=41579

Dad your post is what influenced my design. The only thing I wanted to modify was the condenser head. I decided to go with a traditional copper double helix inside a 2” section of copper pipe. This unit would move like a piston covering the take off tube. My concern was the direct contact of the condenser with the column walls. Copper having higher heat transfer I felt this pipe sheath might be an elegant solution. The rest is based on your very simple effective build.

The condenser is such that only one coil touches the wall...have not seen any ill effect.

I would think you would see less effect if your dropping the condensate on the LM slant plates. Everything that gets below the slant plates will be re-centered.

I'm not a fan of centering collars, nor do I fear the idea of reflux traveling down the column wall.As long as it gets down, it will rise again.

Sure it might be best if it would drop right down the center, but then it does what it wants when it vaporizes any way. I bet there is very little to no measurable difference.

If I can make azeotrope without centering, so can you!

Also, there is a commercial unit now using the SS Flex Pipe coils...imagine...

also, I like YHB's design...miles ahead of a store bought valve.

I just hate valves period...

Lester,

Have you thought about where you are going to put a thermometer? the traditional location for a slant plate is tucked up under the top slant plate away from drips. With your top plate moving this may need another solution.

Thank you all for your inputs.

Dad, that's a great idea. Even your post in the other thread about flex tubes used as condensers blows my mind. I wish I had seen it earlier before I wound my copper coil. I will change my coil once I get my hands on flex tubing although I want to try this out first.

Here are some pics of my build. That's a 2" x 5' tube. I went ahead without the LM system for the meantime, figured I can add it later if I wanted to. I'm using SS screen for packing cuz I can't get any SS scrub pads here. But now I'm tempted to wind my own SS tiny coils (4mm diameter) to use as packing. I can wind SS wire on a square or hexagonal mandrel, take the coiled wire out of the mandrel, give it some additional twist then cut to 10mm length. Is that a good plan? I still have to sand the inside of those tubes then I'm going to make my charcoal stove with a blower on it.

At first this still seemed easy to make but as I progressed I saw how difficult it was. Lots of tiny details. Now I'm just coasting along without forcing to finish anything. It will get done when it gets done, whenever that is.

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YHB wrote:Lester,

Have you thought about where you are going to put a thermometer? the traditional location for a slant plate is tucked up under the top slant plate away from drips. With your top plate moving this may need another solution.

I have not installed the slant plates, maybe later? I placed the thermometer about 3/4" below the take off port, no shroud: is this a bad idea? I can make another take off port, about 2" long but with the other end blocked off, just for sampling the temperature. I can place this at the same height as the take off port, or slightly lower. I am aware that the response time of the thermometer may suffer, but we don't really need split-second response anyway, so......?

Lester,

You are after the temperature of the vapour which is relatively stable and as you say the split second timing is not an issue, however a couple of decimal points difference is what you will be trying to monitor.

The temperature of the liquid coming off your Reflux coil will be at a different temperature to the vapour and will confuse the issue if it dribbles over the thermometer probe.

I really like your fittingless Liebergs, and needle valve, you are a man after my own heart.

YHB wrote:I love any design that does away with expensive valves and connectors, your design looks as though it would work in LM VM modes.

Have a look at this one that made not a valve in sight and I guarantee that this one works a treat, for two reasons.

The attachment splitter.jpg is no longer available

For more details click here http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 16&t=40063

Firstly it gives you the option of Zero reflux ie Pot Still Mode.

Secondly in VM mode it is a proportional splitter, ie when you open up the VM take off you close the reflux route giving you good control over the reflux ratio.

I can take off my heads in LM then change to VM for neutral washes or Pot still for flavoured washes.

I liked this design so much that I disassembled what I have made and turned it into something similar. The only downside I can think of is that my take off pipe is rather small at 3/4", for a 2" column. And I would need to de-solder the elbow (again) to get to that sliding piston. Reminds me of the sliding carburetor used on motorcycle engines. Thank you YHB!

The fitting is for my thermometer. It is lower than the take-off port by about 3/4".

YHB wrote:Lester,

You are after the temperature of the vapour which is relatively stable and as you say the split second timing is not an issue, however a couple of decimal points difference is what you will be trying to monitor.

The temperature of the liquid coming off your Reflux coil will be at a different temperature to the vapour and will confuse the issue if it dribbles over the thermometer probe.

I really like your fittingless Liebergs, and needle valve, you are a man after my own heart.

OK so I will have to move the thermometer out of the "rain". Will do that rather than make a slant plate or an "umbrella".

Fittingless Liebergs: I flared the end of the smaller tube, wrapped a single turn of 2.5mm wire around it, then soldered the wire in place. This wire and flare gets ground to size for a tight fit inside the bigger tube then soldered in place. It is very strong.

Just make sure that there is possibility of the sliding piston cutting of the route to the Reflux Condenser and the Take Off Line at the same time. To make mine safe I had to ensure that there was no possibility of the sliding barrel rotating, I did it my making the push / pull rod off centre so the barrel could not revolve.

I ended up with two thermometers, one under the slant plates (for LM) and one poking into the take off line (for POT & VM).

Good luck with the rest of the build, let us know how you get on.

YHB wrote:I can take off my heads in LM then change to VM for neutral washes or Pot still for flavoured washes.

YHB,
I repeated this line over and over until it sunk in......... this is what I REALLY wanted. So I'm going to put in the slant plates tomorrow to allow me to take off the heads in LM then switch over to VM for neutrals.

YHB wrote:Just make sure that there is possibility of the sliding piston cutting of the route to the Reflux Condenser and the Take Off Line at the same time. To make mine safe I had to ensure that there was no possibility of the sliding barrel rotating, I did it my making the push / pull rod off centre so the barrel could not revolve.

I ended up with two thermometers, one under the slant plates (for LM) and one poking into the take off line (for POT & VM).

Good luck with the rest of the build, let us know how you get on.

YHB,
There's a lot of potential in your valve design. If the piston is rotated 180-deg such that the opening is now pointing upwards, piston half-way into the column, it can be made to collect the reflux condensate so it ends up in the VM condenser together with the vapor. It's now another way for pot still mode but with much higher output potential for stripping runs.

Lester wrote:YHB,
There's a lot of potential in your valve design. If the piston is rotated 180-deg such that the opening is now pointing upwards, piston half-way into the column, it can be made to collect the reflux condensate so it ends up in the VM condenser together with the vapor. It's now another way for pot still mode but with much higher output potential for stripping runs

There is no need to - I simply pull out the piston, this closes the route to the reflux condenser completely. 100% of the vapour is diverted to the product Lieberg no matter how much vapour there is. This is now a pot still, turn up the boiler to maximum and strip as fast as I like. I can turn off the water to the reflux condenser it is not needed.

ok I understand what you're saying. But my 19mm port + 13mm Lieberg is rather small for my 51mm column and that restricts the vapor flow somewhat so I think it can use some help from the reflux condenser. I have built mine with a notch for indicating which way the hole on the piston is pointing so I can compare outputs later on. Thank you for your great ideas!

Might just be me but I think that having the VM branch above the LM slant plates will prove to be somewhat problematic... Once the vapor rises above the slant plates it is already in a much cooler area than below the plates and has already started to collapse... This would theoretically tend to reduce the amount of vapor available for the VM branch... I'd like to be wrong on this but I don't think I am... I'll be looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with for hard numbers on this...

rad14701 wrote:Might just be me but I think that having the VM branch above the LM slant plates will prove to be somewhat problematic... Once the vapor rises above the slant plates it is already in a much cooler area than below the plates and has already started to collapse... This would theoretically tend to reduce the amount of vapor available for the VM branch... I'd like to be wrong on this but I don't think I am... I'll be looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with for hard numbers on this...

Thanks Rad. I also thought that will be a problem so I'm now mounting the slant plates above the VM port. I will also have the ability to rotate the piston valve (lack of a better term) to re-direct the reflux condensate into the VM branch, for faster stripping runs, if there's enough heat to begin with. My VM port is only 19mm on a 51mm column so I think that will help somewhat.

some progress:
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Still looking for SS scrubbers without any luck. I am actually 35 miles away from an active volcano so if all else fails then lava rocks + SS screen will go in there.

I have started fermenting my wash. Birdwatcher's recipe but scaled down to 17 liters.

I don't have a means to measure SG so I built a crude beam balance out of aluminum tube, bolt, nut, washers, etc. Now that I know I can get good (relative) accuracy from this I can build a better-looking one. Dual beams so I can also measure ABW to 100%.

My wash is now at 1.072, 10 hours after adding the yeast.

Here's where I am right now with this build: checking for leaks. Orange pipe is my water reservoir tank & cooling tower. Water is sprayed inside the upper half of this pipe. I still need to install a blower for cooling and I'm planning to induce a vortex inside the pipe with the air from the blower.

I have also made a pot still (concentric condenser) for doing stripping runs. I still have few water leaks but that should be easy enough to fix. Then on to the cleaning runs.

Question: How much wash do I put in for the alcohol part of the cleaning run? Or, how much alcohol should I distill from it to say that I've done the alcohol part of the cleaning run?

I have 17 liters of wash @ 11.4% EtOH, just waiting to be stripped.

I have installed a blower on my swamp cooler, positioned in such a way as to deliberately induce a vortex.
I have a shower at the opposite end of this tube, shown up side down. While it's running as I look inside I can see that all of the water is flung to the side wall and there's no water in the middle portion in the lower half of this tube. I'm not sure if that effect will be better for cooling, have not tried it out yet. But I can tell you that there's a lot of high-speed water moving around the circumference of the lower wall. Maybe I should replace this plastic tube with a metal one for better heat dissipation.

It seems to me that noise is going to be a Major problem with that cooler. I suppose you could turn the stereo up or wear hearing protectors with a radio built in them. Have you considered the noise factor?

Hello BentJar,

Yes indeed it has a whine but not really that annoying. It's a noisy place where I live so a little whining from the blower is not much to be concerned about. But thanks!

I just finished my alcohol cleaning run on the pot still and I got 2.2 liters of distilled alcohol for later use on the VM/LM column. Will measure the alcohol content once it has cooled to room temp. This was my first time to produce alcohol by myself and I took the opportunity to smell the distillate as it was coming out of the still. Hmmm........ not so pleasant alcohol but guess that was to be expected from a pot still & Birdwatcher's wash mixed with some local moonshine brew (Lambanog) which I don't really like. It was a cleaning run anyway so......

Again, my sincerest gratitude to the people in this forum from whom I learned a lot. Maraming salamat po!

I need some help guys.

I built my still according to the dimensions shown in this pic (LM port, condenser & VM valve were omitted for clarity): I wanted to try it out before proceeding any further so I ran this still thing with just water in the boiler.

The LM system works fine and I can vary the take off rate from zero to almost a stream. Reflux condenser & needle valve is working well.

But I can hardly get anything out of the VM branch, about 1 drop every 5 to 10 secs. I don't have a cover at the top so I (loosely) stuffed a rag in there, just to force more vapors into the VM branch. I got 1 drop every 2 secs that's all. Even if I remove the sliding valve I still get very little output.

Is this performance to be expected from a VM with just water in the boiler? Will I get more output when I start distilling low wines?

I would like to modify now if needed, before I go into cleaning runs.

Thanks in advance for any help.

I'm not sure if the low output rate with water has something to do with this:
".......The VM is unable to collect below about 40% - after that, the vapour is lighter than air and won't fall down the product branch. Neat, eh?"
Post by Kiwi here: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=15508

Can someone please confirm that there's nothing wrong with the still I built?

Lester,

The sketch looks fine.

I cannot say for sure, but I think you are on the right lines as to why you are getting such a small output.

With my rig the cut off is very dramatic. Within seconds the nice steady stream from the VM changes to a slow drip and the temperature spikes. I am not near my notes at the moment so I cannot tell you what ABV this happens at. If I want to pull the tails off then I have to go back to LM or Pot mode.

Do not be discouraged - this is one of the benefits of the type of rig you have just built.

Give it a go - I do not think you will be disappointed.

YHB wrote:Lester,

The sketch looks fine.

I cannot say for sure, but I think you are on the right lines as to why you are getting such a small output.

With my rig the cut off is very dramatic. Within seconds the nice steady stream from the VM changes to a slow drip and the temperature spikes. I am not near my notes at the moment so I cannot tell you what ABV this happens at. If I want to pull the tails off then I have to go back to LM or Pot mode.

Do not be discouraged - this is one of the benefits of the type of rig you have just built.

Give it a go - I do not think you will be disappointed.

Thanks Brian!!! You just made my day!

I will clean it up tomorrow then run some low wines in a few days. I still have to strip my wash and it's not yet done fermenting so I have to wait some more. Soon.......