This is my first post, but I've been hanging around the forum for the past year and a half. I build a 2" vm still a year and a half ago and I've been able to put 94%+ at about 1300 ml/hr from it. I decided to build a 3" vm to speed up the process. The new still has a 50" packed column using copper mesh, a 8" long double wound 3/8 copper tube reflux condenser, a 1 1/4 takeoff reducing to a 3/4 ball and a 3/4 liebig with a 1" jacket.
My problem is I cannot pull anything higher than 91% and any reasonable speed. My packing is 2" below the takeoff and my condenser is 2" above. I've tried different power inputs from 12 amps up to 19 amps, different valve positions and cooling. I've repacked it tighter and looser. I've moved the reflux condenser up and down. The only thing I can come up with is there is not enough copper mesh in it. My last attempt I packed it as tight as I could but now I have 8" to 10" of space at the bottom of the column.
Any suggestions?
3" vm poor abv
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Re: 3" vm poor abv
you certainly sound like you have a handle on things.mako86 wrote:This is my first post, but I've been hanging around the forum for the past year and a half. I build a 2" vm still a year and a half ago and I've been able to put 94%+ at about 1300 ml/hr from it. I decided to build a 3" vm to speed up the process. The new still has a 50" packed column using copper mesh, a 8" long double wound 3/8 copper tube reflux condenser, a 1 1/4 takeoff reducing to a 3/4 ball and a 3/4 liebig with a 1" jacket.
My problem is I cannot pull anything higher than 91% and any reasonable speed. My packing is 2" below the takeoff and my condenser is 2" above. I've tried different power inputs from 12 amps up to 19 amps, different valve positions and cooling. I've repacked it tighter and looser. I've moved the reflux condenser up and down. The only thing I can come up with is there is not enough copper mesh in it. My last attempt I packed it as tight as I could but now I have 8" to 10" of space at the bottom of the column.
Any suggestions?
were all of these different runs with the same mash recipe? if so, what mash would that be? are you doing multiple stripping runs into one spirit run?
dont mind me, as I'm a total noob. I'm sure more experienced folk will be along presently...
Re: 3" vm poor abv
It's BW's recipe. The first run was straight mash. When I wasn't happy with it I diluted it enough to cover my element. So I wouldn't say it was low wines. I'm going try a full charge of low wines next and see how that goes. My 2" vm I usually ran one single run at 94%.
Re: 3" vm poor abv
How big is your boiler?
Get some more scrubbies and fill the column.
If you are trying to use a small (2-8 gallon) boiler with a 3" column, it could cause a problem.
Monitor the outflow water from the reflux coil...control the flow to keep the temp between 120-140 d F.
A 1 1/4" take off on a 3" column ensures a lot of relfux, slow takeoff and the 3/4" valve is very small.
Get some more scrubbies and fill the column.
If you are trying to use a small (2-8 gallon) boiler with a 3" column, it could cause a problem.
Monitor the outflow water from the reflux coil...control the flow to keep the temp between 120-140 d F.
A 1 1/4" take off on a 3" column ensures a lot of relfux, slow takeoff and the 3/4" valve is very small.
CCVM http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... d#p7104768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Ethyl Carbamate Docs viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55219&p=7309262&hil ... e#p7309262
DSP-AR-20005
Ethyl Carbamate Docs viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55219&p=7309262&hil ... e#p7309262
DSP-AR-20005
Re: 3" vm poor abv
The boiler is a 13 gal. milk can with a 4500w element controlled with a ssr controller. I always keep the outflow from the reflux coil warm to the touch.
You would think with a column just over 4' and a 3/4 takeoff valve that my biggest problem would be output rate not abv%.
Something is wrong. If I put it in full reflux my thermometer will steady out. If I open the valve fully and keep the power low, around 13 amps I can takeoff product quickly without the temp rising for about 3 or 4 mins. To keep the temp from rising I then have to throttle back the valve to where the product output is way too slow.
So that makes me believe that my power is too low but if I try anything over 13 amps my temp rises as soon as open the valve to where the output is anything more than a trickle. Yet I can open the valve fully and my temp rises .5 degree F and I can takeoff 91% at a really fast rate but throttling it down won't raise my abv% back up at any speed more than a trickle.
Behaves nothing like my 2" vm does. I going to try lava rock and increase my valve and elbow down to my liebig to 1 1/4.
You would think with a column just over 4' and a 3/4 takeoff valve that my biggest problem would be output rate not abv%.
Something is wrong. If I put it in full reflux my thermometer will steady out. If I open the valve fully and keep the power low, around 13 amps I can takeoff product quickly without the temp rising for about 3 or 4 mins. To keep the temp from rising I then have to throttle back the valve to where the product output is way too slow.
So that makes me believe that my power is too low but if I try anything over 13 amps my temp rises as soon as open the valve to where the output is anything more than a trickle. Yet I can open the valve fully and my temp rises .5 degree F and I can takeoff 91% at a really fast rate but throttling it down won't raise my abv% back up at any speed more than a trickle.
Behaves nothing like my 2" vm does. I going to try lava rock and increase my valve and elbow down to my liebig to 1 1/4.
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humbledore
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Re: 3" vm poor abv
Maybe a pic would help. I made a column with interchangeable heads, one a VM and one an LM with a needle valve. Only the LM had a thermo port, so when I ran it as a VM I still had the LM head stacked on top. Turns out this head provided a constriction or narrowing of the vapor path above the VM takeoff which somehow assisted in keeping the VM more stable and keeping the vapor flow running consistent. It also put my condenser well above the VM takeoff. When I tried to run the VM head without it, it behaved much like you are describing.
Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on VM voodoo will come along with better input. I typically run the LM head mostly to keep some flavor in. Just throwing it out there so you can look at any differences between the 2" and 3".
Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on VM voodoo will come along with better input. I typically run the LM head mostly to keep some flavor in. Just throwing it out there so you can look at any differences between the 2" and 3".
Re: 3" vm poor abv
When you say temp rising...from what to what?
The temp will change through out a run...there will be a 10 Deg F shift between foreshots and hearts! and then even more between foreshots and tails.
As the column contents (ABV) change the temp will rise. I get foreshots at 170 deg F and last tails the column will be 185 deg F.
Don't get so hung up on temps, just worry about product flow...from a 3" VM with mesh you should get a good pencil lead, and a liter every 25 minutes.
If the take-off is modular, try running it without the valve...valves suck! Or the opposite they create a restriction.
My best guess is still that your packing is wrong. Fill the thing with SS Scrubbies (50" of 3" should take about 25 SS Scrubbies) and one copper at the top.
The temp will change through out a run...there will be a 10 Deg F shift between foreshots and hearts! and then even more between foreshots and tails.
As the column contents (ABV) change the temp will rise. I get foreshots at 170 deg F and last tails the column will be 185 deg F.
Don't get so hung up on temps, just worry about product flow...from a 3" VM with mesh you should get a good pencil lead, and a liter every 25 minutes.
- a liter every 13 min from a 3"VM
My best guess is still that your packing is wrong. Fill the thing with SS Scrubbies (50" of 3" should take about 25 SS Scrubbies) and one copper at the top.
CCVM http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... d#p7104768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Ethyl Carbamate Docs viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55219&p=7309262&hil ... e#p7309262
DSP-AR-20005
Ethyl Carbamate Docs viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55219&p=7309262&hil ... e#p7309262
DSP-AR-20005
Re: 3" vm poor abv
My thermometer isn't great. My hearts range anywhere between 172 and 174 on any given day, but once I'm into hearts it only goes up .1 deg F throughout the hearts which is usually a little over 2 hours. When the temp rises another .1 deg F I start throttle back the valve to it stop from rising. Once it rises another .2 deg F I shut everything down. I don't collect any tails.
That's how I've been doing runs for over the last year. The runs I tried with the 3" column, in hearts the temp with the valve closed[full reflux] was 172.0. When I tried takeoff product at any reasonable speed the temp would jump to 172.5 abv was 91%. Don't pay attention to the actual temp as it varies from run to run.
I'm convinced the problem is in the packing. My 2" still is packed with ss scrubbies. Works like clockwork. I'm make changes to the valve and packing. I'll figure out eventually.
That's how I've been doing runs for over the last year. The runs I tried with the 3" column, in hearts the temp with the valve closed[full reflux] was 172.0. When I tried takeoff product at any reasonable speed the temp would jump to 172.5 abv was 91%. Don't pay attention to the actual temp as it varies from run to run.
I'm convinced the problem is in the packing. My 2" still is packed with ss scrubbies. Works like clockwork. I'm make changes to the valve and packing. I'll figure out eventually.
Re: 3" vm poor abv
Hey Mako86 ,I have been reading about the 3"vm and ordered me up a couple ,one with windows and a straight colum, first run today,packed it with copper and SS,ran it at 172* ,after the fores I got 10 lts at 96.5 down to 91%. It started to flood up to the bottom window but pulled 11 off at 88% and 12 at 80% ,then I shut it down! almost forgot this was running at 5 lts per hour. Thing I am going to like this toy, just have to fix the packing to get rid of the flooding.
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