Home Distiller

I have been working on things unrelated to home distilling. Tinkering with a couple salad bowels I soldered them together:

Pre-tinned the rim of the bowls. Used clasps to apply downward pressure and torched the rim around and around until the solder melted.
Back filled with my soldering iron to get a good seal:
Did a bit of grinding: Put a tire stem valve in the ball. Ran the hose under a door jam...standing in the other room I pumped and pumped. The pressure rose to 130PSI and: BOOM. The stainless ruptured at the valve. It must have shot it like a missle against the cement footer foundation...cracking the seal and denting the crap out of it.

We don't worry much about pressure in a properly made still...But I was curious how much a solder join like that could handle.

Dude, you need a hobby!

Ive seen photos of pancake compressors that have let go, well more specifically the holes in the roof where the compressor went through it.

That is an extremely dangerous release of energy.

In industry we never pressure test beyond 5 psig with pneumatic pressure.

For future reference, look at destroying your bowls with water pressure instead. Water being very much incompressible will not lead to dangerous releases of energy at point of failure.

Better yet, quit blowing stuff up before the direction of energy release just so happens to align with the position of your head!!

My head was behind 18 inches of reinforced concrete. And while I do NOT recommend anyone try this, I did plan the failure because I wanted to better understand the nature of this join. A soldering connection that MANY here have made, including myself, countless times. If you can not point me to engineering literature that specifically discusses said connection (salad bowl on salad bowl)...forgive me if I do not take your word. If you are trying to convince others not to blow themselves up, you have a point. I will remain delighted that I now have a deeper understanding of said connection.

If the moderators believe I am being flippant and disregarding saftey, please delete my post.

Part of my obligation as a professional engineer to point out safety concerns to the public.....

Calculations for failure pressure of the solder join are fairly easy to calculate actually, just need the OD and ID dimensions of the bowl (assuming the solder flowed through the full contact surface between bowls), The grade of solder used to determine the ultimate tensile stress properties. The efficiency factor to use for the solder join is the only really iffy guesswork here, then run it through standard pressure vessel formulas.

It would tell you exactly what you observed, in that the solder join would not be the first part of the assembly to fail (circumferential joints see half the stress that longitudinal joints see).

Hard to tell from your photos but, Im guessing the valve stem was put through the flat part of the bowl which would have been quite distorted at 130psig which would accelerate the failure at the valve location.

The impact force to actually shear the two bowls apart is the impressive thing to note here which just emphasizes how violent the "boom" was.

Needs an upfront disclaimer........ Here at mythbusters, we're what you would call experts. Don't try anything like this at home!!

You do have a point. I should have been clear and commented about the dangers. This really was a test about what Joe Schmoe(me), and folks like me that are using... OTC soft solder, and what to expect from a join like this. Good bad or ugly...definetly not industry standard...I want to know. You are correct about the flat part of the bowl...at about 55psi...I could hear them ping out. It really was about the solder join...I didn't think it would last much past 20psi. I am contemplating some inline thumper ideas...and I wanted to explore the integrity of the join and my capabilities.

Jkhippie wrote:Dude, you need a hobby!

What do you mean? Isn't blowing shit up a hobby?

Good to know that the solder on stainless is plenty strong.

Glad to read you took some safety actions there by standing behind a concrete wall.
Pressurised gasses (or air) are very dangerous subjects..
If one likes to pressure test any container, this could be done with water.
Due to nature gasses can compress, liquid can't.
A crack in the container will immediatly drop the hydraulic pressure and nothing will fly around in the workshop. It just leaves a wet floor..
A old hydraulic jack can be used to build up pressure.
Interesting experiment anyway...it shows just how powerfull a good soldering job can hold things together..

Glad to read you took some safety actions there by standing behind a concrete wall.
Pressurised gasses (or air) are very dangerous subjects..
If one likes to pressure test any container, this could be done with water.
Due to nature gasses can compress, liquid can't.
A crack in the container will immediatly drop the hydraulic pressure and nothing will fly around in the workshop. It just leaves a wet floor..
A old hydraulic jack can be used to build up pressure.
Interesting experiment anyway...it shows just how powerfull a good soldering job can hold things together..

Point taken. I did consider filling the tank with water for added safety -- it seamed superfluous considering where I was doing this; In retrospect, I should have used water. Just to be clear, the tank was sitting in a cove that was used for a kiln. It has cement walls made up partially by the cement footing and continues up as a fire wall. The hose went under the door jam that leaves the room. I was able to stand in the other room...the tank did launch a few feet and hit the cement footing/wall. I honestly thought it would be lucky to withstand 20psi...I felt safe enough and pushed it to fail -- which was my intention.

no safety brief from me..
that is cool, you have shown me my next build... salad bowl bubble ball/inline thumper/ thingamajig

no safety brief from me..
that is cool, you have shown me my next build... salad bowl bubble ball/inline thumper/ thingamajig

This is my fist step in doing the same thing. If you decide to build it, I hope you would post some of your progress. I have soldered a couple together to figure out a technique that might work -- I am also doing something similar for another project. I know people think I am crazy, and a bit daft for doing this. There really is only so much you can do to ensure that your joins are worth a shit. After all, it is some random salad bowl made in China (probably)...normal plumbers solder and SS flux. I could either stand there and wonder...or take a risk to challenge the joint the best I know how; As safe as I knew how. About the only other information I got out of doing this, is that the solder spread relatively evenly with no large air bubbles and it was an even thickness--viewing separated surfaces.

Thanks for the tip on pre-tinning the stainless joint for ease. I discovered the hard way when trying to join copper to a mixing bowl.

Next time, I will start with pre-tinning

engineering aside, I've been using a copper bowl arrangement for several months, as a still head above my SS pot. The chamber formed by the 11" bowls is loosely filled with expanded copper mesh. It works great, and makes great booze.

Boom, that thing is a beauty.

Pyewacket wrote:Boom, that thing is a beauty.

Why, thank you sir!

Hound Dog wrote:

Jkhippie wrote:Dude, you need a hobby!

What do you mean? Isn't blowing shit up a hobby?

Good to know that the solder on stainless is plenty strong.

Heck yeah it is! Should see what happens when you use an ordinary house vacuum to empty a five gallon bucks of gas. Especially an old school metal Hoover vacuum. Don try this at home, do it in a field with a LONG extension cord.

1 elk hunter wrote:

Hound Dog wrote:

Jkhippie wrote:Dude, you need a hobby!

What do you mean? Isn't blowing shit up a hobby?

Good to know that the solder on stainless is plenty strong.

Heck yeah it is! Should see what happens when you use an ordinary house vacuum to empty a five gallon bucks of gas. Especially an old school metal Hoover vacuum. Don try this at home, do it in a field with a LONG extension cord.

Now that sounds like a fun experiment

Jimbo wrote:

1 elk hunter wrote:

Hound Dog wrote:

Jkhippie wrote:Dude, you need a hobby!

What do you mean? Isn't blowing shit up a hobby?

Good to know that the solder on stainless is plenty strong.

Heck yeah it is! Should see what happens when you use an ordinary house vacuum to empty a five gallon bucks of gas. Especially an old school metal Hoover vacuum. Don try this at home, do it in a field with a LONG extension cord.

Now that sounds like a fun experiment

NO it doesnt, thanks to someone I know of. I see someone getting hurt.

I know a lady that didn't have any common sense, she used a shop vac to suck up gasoline in her husbands pit where he worked on cars. YEAH I AM SERIOUS!

poor lady walked around like a mummy for years covered in bandages, many surgeries, & skin grafts, now she is (proud) of her body again? she wears tank tops & shorts, & I am like YUCK! her legs & arms are patchwork from all skin grafts, different types of skins, & I guess pigments, even her face is grafts, the "ACCIDENT" happened 15 to 20 years ago.

I guess she is lucky to be alive. the only other person I know with major skin grafts got theres as a child because she was lighting dry spaghetti noodles when one dropped on her dress and she went up in flames, aprox 40 years ago.

Cardinalbags wrote:Ive seen photos of pancake compressors that have let go, well more specifically the holes in the roof where the compressor went through it.

That is an extremely dangerous release of energy.

In industry we never pressure test beyond 5 psig with pneumatic pressure.

For future reference, look at destroying your bowls with water pressure instead. Water being very much incompressible will not lead to dangerous releases of energy at point of failure.

Better yet, quit blowing stuff up before the direction of energy release just so happens to align with the position of your head!!

You would hate to have been in our test lab. We were testing 4500 psi air valves. Had to pass a 2X test for 30 min.
That's 9000 psi. The failures were spectacular.

There has been some great information on this post.
Pyewacket did an fine job of soldiering two SS bowls together and also explained how he did it.
I learned about properly testing a pressure vessel.
Know I understand why all the tanks I've seen said, tested to XXX PSI water pressure.

shadylane wrote:There has been some great information on this post.
Pyewacket did an fine job of soldiering two SS bowls together and also explained how he did it.
I learned about properly testing a pressure vessel.
Know I understand why all the tanks I've seen said, tested to XXX PSI water pressure.

We used to do vapor recovery tests on the big fuel hauling tankers. anywhere from 1500 gallons to 9000 gallons capacity. We would test them with air at 14 inches of water on the monometer. That is about 1/2 PSI. It is hard to explain the volume of air that comes out of one when something fails. Nothing catastrophic but it will really get your attention. Just remember the more volume in the vessel makes a bigger release of energy at a given psi. Always use air over water for destruction testing. Or if you have the setup a true hydrostatic test rig is the ticket. Be careful out there! Thanks for the test though, it really shows how strong a soldered joint can be.

Offshore control applications call for valve return to a safe position. This sometimes calls for air tanks of a volume sufficient to return a large valve to the correct position. I've seen the results of a 8' x 10' cylindrical tank that failed with 120 psig inside (a misinformed welder was welding some unistrut on the tank while it was under pressure). Killed the welder, bent some pipe and conduit and put some dings in a beam.

BoomTown wrote:engineering aside, I've been using a copper bowl arrangement for several months, as a still head above my SS pot. The chamber formed by the 11" bowls is loosely filled with expanded copper mesh. It works great, and makes great booze.

got anymore pics

I have some plans to solder bond a large SS mixing bowl to a SS stock pot lid. When it comes to Tinning the Stainless I found this website that sells a Tinning paint. looks as if it would be safe for use in a Still. http://www.solders.com/lead_free_tinning_paint.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow thought it might be of interest.

Lead Free EnviroSafe Tinning Paint
Containing only a lead free alloy solder powder and our special flux, Lead Free EnviroSafe Action Tin can be used with EnviroSafe solder on all sanitary, food, and other environmentally sensitive applications. (Can also be used with other solders.) Large copper, brass and other tubular materials can be sweat soldered with complete coverage by tinning surface first with Action Tin, then fluxing, assembling and soldering. Perfect soldering is achieved when the two surfaces in contact are metallurgically bonded together by the solder. The entire area is covered and there are no voids. Action Tin wets each surface entirely and you can see this before soldering. It pre-tins not only copper and brass, but also hard to solder materials such as steel, iron, stainless steel, cast iron, beryllium copper, terne plate, lead flashings, and lead coatings. After pre-tinning, you can then assemble using any flux and solder.

Hey, that looks interesting. I think I might check that out. Has anyone used this product before? Or a product like this?

Pyewacket wrote:Hey, that looks interesting. I think I might check that out. Has anyone used this product before? Or a product like this?

I emailed the company about a MSDS request just waiting to here back. Couldn't find one online.

Here is a copy of the MSDS ( if there is a better way to upload it please let me know. )
Material Safety Data Sheet
Product Name:
EnviroSafe Tinning paint
Product Code:
Product Use/Restriction:
Soldering Paint
Manufacturer Name:
Canfield Technologies/BOW Electronic Solders
Address:
1 Crossman Road, Sayreville, NJ 08872
General Phone Number:
732-316-2100
INFOTRAC
24 Hour Emergency Telephone Number: 1-800-535-5053
Website:
http://www.solders.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
MSDS Creation Date
1-May-14
MSDS Revision Date:
1-May-14
Chemical Name
CAS#
Ingredient Percent
EC Number
Antimony:
7440-36-0
0-10 by weight
Copper:
7440-50-8
0-10 by weight
Silver:
7440-22-4
0-10 by weight
Tin:
7440-31-5
0-100 by weight
Flux Content :
N/A
70-80%
Zinc chloride:
7646-85-7
10-60% by weight
Ammonium chloride:
12125-02-9
1-5% by weight
Non Hazardous:
N/A
10-20% by weight
Undisclosed Proprietary:
No data
1-5 by weight
Emergency Overview:
WARNING! Irritant. Exposures to soldering fumes and vapors may be irritating to eyes, respiratory
system, and skin. Carcinogenic category 2
Route of Exposure:
Eyes, Skin, Inhalation, Ingestion
Eye:
Smoke during soldering can cause eye irritation
Skin:
may cause skin irritation . May be absorbed through the skin in harmful amounts.
Inhalation:
irritation of vapors, fumes or mists of the product may be irritating to the respiratory system.
Ingestion:
Harmful if swallowed. Corrosive to the gastrointestinal tract. Causes irritation, a burning
sensation of the mouth, throat and gastrointestinal tract and abdominal pain.
Chronic Health Effects:
Prolonged skin contact causes burns. Repeated or prolonged inhalation may cause toxic effects.
Signs/ Symptoms:
Depending on solution concentration, material may be corrosive to skin, mucous membranes
and eyes. Vapors may cause respiratory irritation.
Target Organs:
Eyes, Skin, Respiratory system, Digestive system.
Aggravation of pre-Existing
Conditions:
May aggravate pre-existing respiratory disorders,allergy,eczema,or skin conditions.
1. Chemical Product & Company Information
2. Hazard Identification
3. Composition/ information on ingredients
Eye Contact: Immediately flush eyes with water 15 to 20 minutes. Get medical attention, if irritation or symptoms
of overexposure persists.
Skin Contact: Immediately wash skin with soap and plenty of water.
Get medical attention if irritation develops or persists.
Inhalation: If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration or give oxygen by trained
personnel, seek immediate attention.
Ingestion: If swallowed, do not induce vomiting. Call a physician or poison control center immediately.
Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.
Flash Point: Not applicable.
Upper Flammable/Explosive Limit: Not applicable.
Lower Flammable/Explosive Limit: Not applicable.
Extinguishing Media: Use alcohol resistant foam, carbon dioxide, dry chemical or water fog or spray
when fighting fires involving this material.
Unsuitable Media: Do not use a solid water stream as it may scatter and spread fire.
Protective Equipment: As in any fire, wear Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA), MSHA/NIOSH
(approved or equivalent) and full protective gear.
Hazardous Combustion
Byproducts: Oxides of carbon, oxides of nitrogen, aliphatic aldehydes, and other organic
substances may be formed during combustion. Melted solder above 1000 deg F
will liberate toxic lead and / or antimony fumes.
NFPA Ratings
NFPA Health: 1
NFPA Flammability: 1
NFPA Reactivity: 0
NFPA Other:
Personnel Precautions: Evacuate area and keep unnecessary and unprotected personnel from entering the
spill area . Avoid breathing vapor, aerosol or mist. Avoid contact with skin,
eyes and clothing.
Environmental Precautions: Avoid runoff into storm sewers, ditches, and waterways.
Methods For Containment: Melted solder will solidify on cooling and can be scraped up.
Methods For Cleanup: Solidified solder can be scraped up upon cooling. Use caution to avoid breathing
fumes if a gas torch is used to cut up large pieces.
Handling: Corrosive. Use proper personal equipment as listed in section8. use with adequate
ventilation. Avoid breathing vapor and fumes. Use only in accordance with directions.
Storage: store in a cool, dry, well ventilated area away from sources of heat, incompatible
Recommended storage temperature is at or near 5:C or 42:F.
materials. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.
Hygiene Practices: Wash thoroughly after handling. Avoid inhaling vapors, mists, or fumes.
Engineering Controls: Use appropriate engineering control such as process enclosures, local exhaust
ventilation, or other engineering controls to control airborne levels below recommended
5. Firefighting
6. Accidental Release Measures
7. Handling and Storage
4. First Aid
8. Exposure Controls & Personal Protection
exposure limits. Where such systems are not effective wear suitable other recognized
standards. Consult with local procedures for selection, training, inspection and maintenance
of the personal protective equipment.
Eye/Face Protection:
Safety glasses with side-shields.
Hand Protection Description:
Wear appropriate protective gloves. Consult glove manufacturer's data for
permeability data.
Respiratory Protection:
When ventilation is not sufficient to remove fumes from the breathing zone a safety
approved respirator or self-contained breathing apparatus should be worn.
Exposure Guidelines
Ammonium chloride:
Guideline ACGIH:
TLV-TWA: 10 mg/m³
TLV-STEL: 20 mg/m³
Zinc chloride:
Guideline ACGIH:
TLV-TWA: 1 mg/m³
Guideline ACGIH:
TLV-STEL: 2 mg/m³
Guideline OSHA
PEL-TWA: 1 mg/m³
Physical State Appearance:
Paste
Color:
Sliver grey
PH AS SUPPLIED:
N/A
Oder:
Mild odor
Boiling Point:
Varies
Melting Point:
Varies
FREEZING POINT:
Varies
VAPOR PRESSURE (mmHg):
N/A (:F⁄:C)
VAPOR DENSITY (AIR=1):
N/A
SPECIFIC GRAVITY (H2O=1):
N/A
EVAPORATION RATE:
N/A
SOLUBILITY IN WATER
Insoluble
PERCENT SOLIDS BY WEIGHT:
Varies according to alloy composition
PERCENT VOLATILE:
N/A (:F⁄:C)
VOLATILE ORGANIC COMOUNDS (VOC):
N/A (:F⁄:C)
Density:
> 4.5 g⁄cm³ at 20:C (68:F)
Flash Point:
> 93:C (>199:F)
VOSCOSITY:
N/A (:F⁄:C)
Explosive Properties:
Product does not present an explosion hazard.
Chemical Stability:
Stable under normal temperatures and pressures.
Hazardous Polymerization:
Will not occur
Conditions to Avoid:
No thermal decomposition if used according to specifications.
Incompatible Materials:
Oxidizing materials, acids and alkalis.
Hazardous Decomposition- Products:
Lead oxides fumes and/or Lead particulate may be evolved.
Ammonium chloride:
BP4570000
RTECS Number:
Non Hazardous:
ZC0110000
RTECS Number:
Oral-Rat LD50: >90 ml/kg [Details of toxic effects not reported other than lethal dose value]
Ingestion:
(RTECS)
9. Physical & Chemical Properties
10. Stability & Reactivity
11. Toxicological Information
Zinc chloride:
Zh1400000
RTECS Number:
Oral-Rat LD50: 350 mg/kg [Details of toxic effects not reported other than lethal dose value]
Oral-Rat LD50: 329 mg/kg [Details of toxic effects not reported other than lethal dose value]
(RTECS)
Environmental :
Lead if this is released or deposited on soil it generally will remain in the top 2-5cm of soil
Waste Disposal:
Consult with this US EPA Guidelines listed in 40 CFR Part 261.3 for the classifications
of hazardous waste prior to disposal. Furthermore, consult with your state and local
waste requirements or guidelines, if applicable, to ensure compliance. Arrange disposal in
accordance to the EPA and / or state and local guidelines.
Transport in accordance with applicable regulation and requirements.
US DOT HAZARDOUS MATERIAL CLASSIFICATION:
Solder Paste is not listed as a DOT hazardous material
WATER TRANSPORTIATION:
Solder Paste is not listed as a hazardous material
IATA HAZARDOUS MATERIAL CLASSIFICATION:
Solder Paste is not listed as IATA hazardous material
Canada Reg. Status:
The information contained in this MSDS meets the requirements of OSHA regulation
29 CFR 1910.1200.
ALL components of this product are on the EPA TSCA inventory list.
General Use:
Soldering Flux
HMIS Health Hazard:
1
HMIS Fire Hazard:
1
HMIS Reactivity:
0
HMIS Personal Protection:
X
MSDS Creation Date:
1-May-14
MSDS Revision Date:
1-May-14
Disclaimer:
The information contained herein is based on data considered accurate and is offered solely
is offered solely for information, consideration and investigation. Canfield Technologies, Inc.
extends no warranties, makes no representations and assumes no responsibility as to the
accuracy, completeness or suitability of this data for any purchaser's use. The data on this
Material Safety Sheet relates only to this product and does not relate to use with any other
material or in any process. All chemical products should be used only by, or under the
direction of, technically qualified personnel who are aware of the hazards involved and
necessity for reasonable care in handling. Hazard communication regulations require
that employees must be trained on how to use a Material Safety Data Sheet as a source
for hazard information.

Great test. Anyone have info on the shear strength of a solder joint?

I'd really appreciate a replication of this test but for external pressure if you're up for it. It looks like it ought to be a fairly resilient shape. I'm trying to design a vacuum chamber and am trying to get a handle on design parameters other than those already demonstrated by skow69's corny keg.

May I inquire about the thickness of the salad bowls? They look pretty sturdy as these things go.

next time I highly advise using hydro testing instead. Its very similar and the standard for testing plumbing systems because its safer. Air compresses a fair bit under pressure, but water does not to the explosion/leak the preasure is much shorter and less violent.

B